Evga 680i q6600 vs GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3 Athlon X3 435 Rana

[k9cj5]

I built a new computer as a graduation present for myself back in May. My problem is that I'm trying to build my fiance a computer able to handle Star War The Old Republic without buying a whole new system. I need this system to play the game smooth since she has vertigo. She will be using a 22 Inch monitor with a 1680x1050 Screen Resolution.
I know the game isn't out yet but I would like to start planning now since Black Friday is coming soon.

The system she now has is this:

Case: Antec 600 Case
Motherboard: GA-MA785GM-US2H motherboard
Processor: AMD Athlon II X3 435 Rana 2.9GH
Ram: 4 GB Patriot Viper 2 DDR 800 CAS 444
Video Card: ASUS CuCore Series EAH4850 1gig 256-bit DDR3
CPU Cooler: Hyper 212+
PSU: 620 Antec Earthwatts P/S

My Old system

Case: Antec p182
Motherboard: Evga 680i
Processor: Intel 775 Q6600 2.4 Ghz Quad
Ram: 6GB CORSAIR XMS2 TWIN2X4096-6400C5
Video Card:
CPU Cooler: Stock
PSU: 650 Seasonic P/s

I know one thing for certain. I will need to buy another video card and I was thinking a Geforce 460 1gig would pretty much make the CPU the bottleneck. What would give me the best performance scenario? Two things that came to mind was overclock the Athlon system, put in the Geforce card and call it a day. But I had no idea I could get the Q6600 to 3.0 Ghz, and maybe even higher. I was thinking if I got an ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 I could over clock the Q6600 to 3.0 Ghz or more. Which would be the better route. Now if I'm going to install a HSF with the intel system I found that the Arctic Freezer actually clears the north bridge on the 680i motherboard where the hyper 212+ does not.

I know either way I go I will be over clocking. I found some good videos for the q6600 but the Athlon 2 is a different story and it sounds much more involved so if anyone could shed some light I would appreciate it.

Thanks for your guys time and input.

 

[alyarb]

Because of differences in the nvidia MCH, they were terrible overclockers for quads. Duals were ok, but you would be lucky to get the Q6600 to 3.0 GHz, so don't be disappointed if that doesn't work out.

For your the other machine, see if its stable with the 4th core unlocked and it should do at least 3.4-3.6 GHz. The Athlon will be much easier for you to overclock compared to the other system.

As far as the GPUs, I would not rush into any purchase until the game you want to play comes out. There are all kinds of good deals that pop up so it's just a matter of finding the right one (for instance there was a 768MB Galaxy GTX460 for $80 after rebate that was nice). So just keep an eye out.

 

[aigomorla]

aHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH im getting flashbacks of horror..

The 680i was both the best and WORST board i have ever had.

Best as in when i was using a E6600 and a X6800 that sucker was a monster.
Worst as in, i had to RMA that sucker at least 4 times because its not a durable board.

The 780i quickly replaced that board.. but a lot of people had grief on the 780i.
I had a cherry 780i i sold to gillbot... and even he admits it was a cherry.

But yeah... your board is not durable.. i would be very careful on it, since there is no more 680i's they can swap with you should it die.

 

[alyarb]

Even if he gets it to 3 GHz, we will get another one of those "what is this awful whining sound coming from my VRM under load???" threads.

 

[sangyup81]

The Athlon II x3 is much more difficult to overclock since you have to deal with CPU and CPU-NB voltages as well as finding the sweet spot in CPU-NB speed.

Also, the Athlon II x3 will only be able to compete with the Q6600 if you can unlock the 4th core and if there is L3 cache to unlock. If any of these unlockings fail, stick to the Q6600.

 

[alyarb]

vcore and CPU-NB voltage is analogous to the vcore, FSB and SPP voltages on the 680i. They all must be increased and tuned to handle the load of increased FSB traffic that comes with overclocking, especially as nvidia's implementation of the FSB is particularly weak. The memory controller will set an unfortunate upper bound for that system and like I said it be very lucky to see 3 GHz.

The Rana on the other hand is super easy to overclock. I've gotten many of them to 3.5 GHz without having to mess with any voltages at all, and at that speed whether you have the 4th core or L3 cache it will be very comparable to the Q6600, especially in games where CPU performance comes secondary to GPU performance.

But the fact is that voltage tuning is an inherent part of overclocking, and there is nothing difficult about voltage tuning on any platform, so if you can't handle it, it's probably because you're lazy and not because it's hard. All it takes is looking at a couple good examples to do the job right, so if you don't want to do that then you probably shouldn't be overclocking. Leaving all the voltages to "auto" for long-term use can be quite bad and changing a setting you don't understand can be worse.

 

[sangyup81]

vcore and CPU-NB voltage is analogous to the vcore, FSB and SPP voltages on the 680i. They all must be increased and tuned to handle the load of increased FSB traffic that comes with overclocking, especially as nvidia's implementation of the FSB is particularly weak. The memory controller will set an unfortunate upper bound for that system and like I said it be very lucky to see 3 GHz.

The Rana on the other hand is super easy to overclock. I've gotten many of them to 3.5 GHz without having to mess with any voltages at all, and at that speed whether you have the 4th core or L3 cache it will be very comparable to the Q6600, especially in games where CPU performance comes secondary to GPU performance.

But the fact is that voltage tuning is an inherent part of overclocking, and there is nothing difficult about voltage tuning on any platform, so if you can't handle it, it's probably because you're lazy and not because it's hard. All it takes is looking at a couple good examples to do the job right, so if you don't want to do that then you probably shouldn't be overclocking. Leaving all the voltages to "auto" for long-term use can be quite bad and changing a setting you don't understand can be worse.

It took me about a month to get to the settings I like on my unlocked Phenom II x2 -> x4 while people overclocking the 2500k are finishing in a couple days. Nothing wrong with giving a fair warning.

 

[k9cj5]

Yeah I already tried to unlock the 4th core but it was a bust. It would blue screen right before getting into windows. Now I never updated the BIOS, is it possible it might make a difference?

Should I start another thread or how should I go about over clocking the athlon? I would like to get it to 3.2 Ghz. I know I could go higher but I would like the system to last and I dont want to up the vcore at all if possible.

Thanks all for the info.

 

[sangyup81]

Hmmm you'll be lucky if you can unlock without a vcore adjustment. In my underclocking trials, I realized that stock voltage was barely enough to get all 4 cores going in my x2. Day to day, I'm running it at 1.6125v no llc according to bios which comes out to 1.51v load, 1.58v idle in windows. CPU-NB is at 1.55 no llc

 

[alyarb]

Hmmm you'll be lucky if you can unlock without a vcore adjustment. In my underclocking trials, I realized that stock voltage was barely enough to get all 4 cores going in my x2. Day to day, I'm running it at 1.6125v no llc according to bios which comes out to 1.51v load, 1.58v idle in windows. CPU-NB is at 1.55 no llc

Your specimen is exceptionally poor. Worst I've heard of actually. So now I understand why you aren't a fan of AMD overclocking. For the 20 or so C3 Ranas (MBOX at the end of the product number) I've put together they averaged 3.7 GHz under 3 cores with 1.45v. Enabling the gimp core(s) is what needs the excessive voltage. It is not the clocks. This is why you were unsuccessful trying for an undervolt+unlock.

 

[sangyup81]

Your specimen is exceptionally poor. Worst I've heard of actually. So now I understand why you aren't a fan of AMD overclocking. For the 20 or so C3 Ranas (MBOX at the end of the product number) I've put together they averaged 3.7 GHz under 3 cores with 1.45v. Enabling the gimp core(s) is what needs the excessive voltage. It is not the clocks. This is why you were unsuccessful trying for an undervolt+unlock.

Actually, I didn't give the details on my "specimen"

I was talking about stock speeds with 4 cores. I couldn't reduce the voltage much from stock at all without hitting instability. Much better results when I only unlock to 3 cores.

The voltages I specified earlier were for my overclocked settings, I should have clarified. 3.95GHz CPU and 2.9 GHz CPU-NB. I figured I might as well push my H50 + 2nd fan setup. This is a C3 Phenom II x2 560 Callisto which has a stock speed of 3.3 GHz

If I only go 3 cores, I can do 4.1 GHz CPU with 2.95 GHz CPU-NB with about .025 less volts on the CPU. 2 Core isn't actually that much better so it's definitely the 4th core that's holding it from going further. This is also with 48-hours Prime95 blend. There are times when that test is the only one that fails but I keep going until I really am that stable since Starcraft II has loading hicups if the system is anything less than totally stable.

 

[k9cj5]

Your specimen is exceptionally poor. Worst I've heard of actually. So now I understand why you aren't a fan of AMD overclocking. For the 20 or so C3 Ranas (MBOX at the end of the product number) I've put together they averaged 3.7 GHz under 3 cores with 1.45v. Enabling the gimp core(s) is what needs the excessive voltage. It is not the clocks. This is why you were unsuccessful trying for an undervolt+unlock.

alyarb since you have so much experience with the athlon 2 435 how do you think I should start? I would like to get mine to 3.2-3.4 Ghz.

 

[jacktesterson]

My experience with nvidia motherboard chipsets has been god aweful. I do not wish it on anyone who wants to overclock.

Stick the with AMD setup.

 

[sm625]

You guys who are having success overclocking an athlon X3 might want to specify whether you are using an AM2 or an AM3 socket and DDR2/DDR3. I think there could be a big difference in OC results. Normally if I had to choose between a Q6600 and an AM2 Athlon X3, I'd choose the Q6600. But I would prefer a P35 or better chipset to go with that Q6600. Because you are using the nvidia chipset, I would go with the athlon + GA-MA785GM-US2H since that is a board I trust.

 

[tweakboy]

Because of differences in the nvidia MCH, they were terrible overclockers for quads. Duals were ok, but you would be lucky to get the Q6600 to 3.0 GHz, so don't be disappointed if that doesn't work out.

For your the other machine, see if its stable with the 4th core unlocked and it should do at least 3.4-3.6 GHz. The Athlon will be much easier for you to overclock compared to the other system.

As far as the GPUs, I would not rush into any purchase until the game you want to play comes out. There are all kinds of good deals that pop up so it's just a matter of finding the right one (for instance there was a 768MB Galaxy GTX460 for $80 after rebate that was nice). So just keep an eye out.

Well there was first the B3 stepping but with a Q6 GO and a good motherboard and ram you can OC the bujezzes out of it, like I did. But ya sometimes you get a dudd like alyarb said.

 

[alyarb]

alyarb since you have so much experience with the athlon 2 435 how do you think I should start? I would like to get mine to 3.2-3.4 Ghz.

In its simplest form the "act" of overclocking can be consolidated into three basic steps. Whether you're dealing with a Core2 Duo/Quad, Athlon/Phenom II, or Nehalem-based system (sandy bridge is different), these systems share the common attribute of having a base clock upon which all other systems depend, so the first part involves increasing this number as high as it can go, but for the purposes of 3.4 GHz it's not actually asking too much of it. Because your CPU's clock multiplier defaults to 14.5, a base clock of 235 MHz will put the CPU where you want (14.5*235 MHz = 3407 MHz).

The default memory multiplier is 4, so a system clock of 235 will run the RAM at 940 MHz, which will probably result in crashes or a complete failure to start. To get your RAM down to a range in which it can operate safely, you must lower the memory multiplier to 3.33.

Lastly is the CPU voltage. 1.45 volts should be enough to do 3.4 GHz, but if I am wrong feel free to go up to 1.55.

These parameters in no way represent "every last drop" of power going to waste in your system. I merely think they are easy to understand and will give you a significant boost without a lot of fiddling.

Unlocking additional cores, cache, or overclocking the memory controller (sometimes called "CPU-NB") requires a lot more trial and error, particularly with the way gigabyte implements advanced clock calibration and northbridge voltage increments rather than an absolute value. A lot of people say the sweet spot for the CPU-NB is above 2.6 GHz and it will probably take enough trial and error to achieve it that I don't believe it to be worthwhile for you. You are more than welcome to search google for numerous Rana tweakers who have done it, but the truth is beyond a certain point overclocking wastes power and the merits of a fast CPU are far easier to measure than they are to notice in practical usage. For your purposes of running a game at 1680x1050, I would focus on a mild CPU overclock like I outlined above and a sound investment in GPU power.

A good example of your case on a similar AM2 setup:
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/818824-rana-x3-435-overlock-advise.html

 

[k9cj5]

Thanks for all the reply's. Sounds good Alyard Ill try thins on my weekend.

I was looking in my the bios and I had a few more questions.

Should I also set PCIe Clock to 100Mhz instead of auto?

CPU Northbrdige Frequency give me an option of several multipliers. Whats the formula to calculated NB frequency? Is it the same as reference clock x the multiplier ='s northbridge clock frequency?
so if I set it to 9 it would look something like this. 235 x 9 = 2115 Mhz

Also the HT Link Frequency doesn't give me any way to change a multiplier only its speed in Mhz. It goes from 600Mhz to 2.0 Ghz. Im guessing I would set it to 2.0 Ghz correct?

So my BIOS would look like this

CPU Northbridge Freq. x9 =2115 Mhz
CPU Frequency 235
PCIe Clock(Mhz) 100
HT Link Width Auto
HT Link Frequency 2.0 Ghz
Memory Clock x3.33 = 783 Mhz

System Voltage Control
DDR2 Voltage Control Normal
NB Voltage Control Normal
SB Voltage Control Normal
CPU Voltage Control [+0.025V] 1.45 Volts

 

[k9cj5]

So I started over clocking my system and I got to 245 reference clock before my system rebooted during a stress test. It was on for about 15min or so before it rebooted. Here is what I had set in the BIOS.

CPU Northbridge Freq. x8
Reference Clock 245
PCIe Clock(Mhz) 100
HT Link Width Auto
HT Link Frequency 1.6 Ghz
Memory Clock x3.33

System Voltage Control
DDR2 Voltage Control Normal
NB Voltage Control Normal
SB Voltage Control Normal
CPU Voltage Control [+0.025V] 1.45 Volts

At 240 reference clock my system temps are about 36 C.

I'm thinking if I wanted to go higher I would need to up my vcore another .25 volts but I'm not sure. What do you guys think? I figured 245 would be a very good stopping point since HT/NB would be about 1960 Mhz, Ram would be around 815 Mhz. I don't want to OC any of the other components since I don't have a fan on my NB.