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Every Sox/Yankees series this year will be holy wars.

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Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Soccer55
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Originally posted by: Ranger X
It's going to be a slugfest! I'm gonna enjoy this!!

Are the Red Sox are such losers that they will want to fight because the Yankees signed a good player?

No, but John Henry (Red Sox owner) is such a loser that he is now crying for a salary cap.....while the Red Sox are projected to have the 2nd highest payroll in baseball this year. It is rather coincidental that he starts to change his mind shortly after the Yankees trade for the player that the Red Sox were trying to get.....

-Tom

EDIT: Oh yeah, here's the salary cap article.

Ask the Royals, Twins, Spos, D.Rays, and A's if they agree with Henry... a cap is something that every fan of MLB would agree with, unless you're a Wankees fan... Wankees' fans need to get their heads out of their asses, the money is clogging up your brains.
Sp33d, you're missing the point. Of course most teams would agree with Henry. The point is that he's a complete hypocrite.

How is he a hypocrite? Explain to me exactly why? Yes he, like every other MLB team, voted in favor of a luxury tax to stop scenarios just like this (signing of AROD and creating humongous disparity in salary cap) from happening. The Yankees were the only team to vote AGAINST the luxury tax. Apparently they didn't think Whinebrenner would pull off such a tasteless act as this. If that makes Henry a hypocrite, then you have to call EVERY major league team who thinks MLB needs a hard cap, a "hypocrite". I guarantee you that 99.9% of the teams that voted for a luxury tax also agree MLB needs a hard cap, so wow, everyone is a hypocrite by your and Whinebrenner's standards! Congratulations!

It would have made no sense for Steinbrenner to vote in favor of the luxury tax. There's no sense in voting for something that would only make you pay and affect few others. Henry isn't a hypocrite. He has just changed his opinion in light of his inability to obtain A-Rod.
 
Originally posted by: Storm
I'd like to see the owners vote for a hard cap. Its still not going to force owners who dont want to put money into their teams. Isnt the Twin's owner a billionaire? Thats what I heard?
The Players Organization won't allow it in a million years.
 
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: Storm
I'd like to see the owners vote for a hard cap. Its still not going to force owners who dont want to put money into their teams. Isnt the Twin's owner a billionaire? Thats what I heard?
The Players Organization won't allow it in a million years.

Which is sad... Players dont want hard cap... owners dont want minimum salary... 🙁

So the baseball economy is going to stay the way it is until the public walks away from baseball...

Oh yea found some stuff on the Minnesota Twin's owner Carl Pohlad...

Link

In September Fortune Magazine estimated his net worth at $1.8 billion. That was before the recent sale of most of his banking assets to Wells Fargo. Some estimates now put his worth at close to $3 billion.

Gimme a break... Now he is at least 1 owner that has more assets than George...

 
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Soccer55
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Originally posted by: Ranger X
It's going to be a slugfest! I'm gonna enjoy this!!

Are the Red Sox are such losers that they will want to fight because the Yankees signed a good player?

No, but John Henry (Red Sox owner) is such a loser that he is now crying for a salary cap.....while the Red Sox are projected to have the 2nd highest payroll in baseball this year. It is rather coincidental that he starts to change his mind shortly after the Yankees trade for the player that the Red Sox were trying to get.....

-Tom

EDIT: Oh yeah, here's the salary cap article.

Ask the Royals, Twins, Spos, D.Rays, and A's if they agree with Henry... a cap is something that every fan of MLB would agree with, unless you're a Wankees fan... Wankees' fans need to get their heads out of their asses, the money is clogging up your brains.
Sp33d, you're missing the point. Of course most teams would agree with Henry. The point is that he's a complete hypocrite.

How is he a hypocrite? Explain to me exactly why? Yes he, like every other MLB team, voted in favor of a luxury tax to stop scenarios just like this (signing of AROD and creating humongous disparity in salary cap) from happening. The Yankees were the only team to vote AGAINST the luxury tax. Apparently they didn't think Whinebrenner would pull off such a tasteless act as this. If that makes Henry a hypocrite, then you have to call EVERY major league team who thinks MLB needs a hard cap, a "hypocrite". I guarantee you that 99.9% of the teams that voted for a luxury tax also agree MLB needs a hard cap, so wow, everyone is a hypocrite by your and Whinebrenner's standards! Congratulations!
He's a hypocrite because he was trying his darndest to sign Arod himself! He didn't see the problem then, did he? Now when the Yankees sign him, suddenly he sees a big problem. And don't blame it on the $12 million, please.

This was my point. You can't go out and rack up the 2nd highest payroll in MLB, fully expecting to add on another $15 million by signing A-Rod, then start whining about a salary cap after the Yankees sign him instead of you. He may have been in favor of a cap before, but bringing up the issue at this point in time just makes Henry and the organization look like a bunch of whiny kids that are mad because they didn't get their way.

-Tom
 
Originally posted by: Legendary

It would have made no sense for Steinbrenner to vote in favor of the luxury tax. There's no sense in voting for something that would only make you pay and affect few others. Henry isn't a hypocrite. He has just changed his opinion in light of his inability to obtain A-Rod.
Sarcasm?
 
Originally posted by: Soccer55
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Soccer55
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Originally posted by: Ranger X
It's going to be a slugfest! I'm gonna enjoy this!!

Are the Red Sox are such losers that they will want to fight because the Yankees signed a good player?

No, but John Henry (Red Sox owner) is such a loser that he is now crying for a salary cap.....while the Red Sox are projected to have the 2nd highest payroll in baseball this year. It is rather coincidental that he starts to change his mind shortly after the Yankees trade for the player that the Red Sox were trying to get.....

-Tom

EDIT: Oh yeah, here's the salary cap article.

Ask the Royals, Twins, Spos, D.Rays, and A's if they agree with Henry... a cap is something that every fan of MLB would agree with, unless you're a Wankees fan... Wankees' fans need to get their heads out of their asses, the money is clogging up your brains.
Sp33d, you're missing the point. Of course most teams would agree with Henry. The point is that he's a complete hypocrite.

How is he a hypocrite? Explain to me exactly why? Yes he, like every other MLB team, voted in favor of a luxury tax to stop scenarios just like this (signing of AROD and creating humongous disparity in salary cap) from happening. The Yankees were the only team to vote AGAINST the luxury tax. Apparently they didn't think Whinebrenner would pull off such a tasteless act as this. If that makes Henry a hypocrite, then you have to call EVERY major league team who thinks MLB needs a hard cap, a "hypocrite". I guarantee you that 99.9% of the teams that voted for a luxury tax also agree MLB needs a hard cap, so wow, everyone is a hypocrite by your and Whinebrenner's standards! Congratulations!
He's a hypocrite because he was trying his darndest to sign Arod himself! He didn't see the problem then, did he? Now when the Yankees sign him, suddenly he sees a big problem. And don't blame it on the $12 million, please.

This was my point. You can't go out and rack up the 2nd highest payroll in MLB, fully expecting to add on another $15 million by signing A-Rod, then start whining about a salary cap after the Yankees sign him instead of you. He may have been in favor of a cap before, but bringing up the issue at this point in time just makes Henry and the organization look like a bunch of whiny kids that are mad because they didn't get their way.

-Tom
You keep spouting off about the "2nd highest payroll in baseball" when there's a 75 million difference between 1 (NY) and 2 (Boston)! 75 million is more than 11 teams! Are you not aware of this?

Henry could give a dam about not getting ARod... first off, do you really think ARod is worth TWENTY FIVE MILLION a year? Please, he's worth at the most: 16-17 in my book! It's the principle of paying ARod what he's worth. Why in the world should the Red Sox get raped with a huge contract when the player isn't even worth the money he was 3 years ago??? Hell, they can go out and get more pitching if they want to spend 25 mil more a year... you could get at LEAST 2 quality pitchers for that price (Billy Wagner makes 8 mil, Kerry Wood and Prior make well under 10). Aside from the fact that Boston would not be gaining that much offensively with ARod/Ordonez vs Manny/Nomar, all they stood to gain is losing Manny's bad attitude. I don't blame Henry for putting his foot down against greedy ARod... Don't forget, ARod COULD HAVE signed with the Bosox IF he said "I don't care about what the Union says, I'm restructuring my contract to utilize rights to the Red Sox logo to account for the loss"... instead he chose NOT to renegotiate his contract for less, and hid behind the Player's Union, he knew they wouldn't approve of a restructuring of 10 mil. To translate: ARod did not want to lose money off his contract, b/c it's more important to him than winning. It didn't help, after the fact ARod lost his balls, that Larry Luch kicked him while he was down, but the reality is that IF ARod was really serious about wanting to play in Boston he could have made it happen... He chose money instead.

Furthermore, signing ARod would have pushed Boston into the luxury tax zone, and they do not make enough off contracts to take a hit like NY can afford to do.... please educate yourself about baseball MARKETS and how profit is generated/lost Wankee fans.
 
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: Legendary

It would have made no sense for Steinbrenner to vote in favor of the luxury tax. There's no sense in voting for something that would only make you pay and affect few others. Henry isn't a hypocrite. He has just changed his opinion in light of his inability to obtain A-Rod.
Sarcasm?
No sarcasm. Henry didn't think ARod was worth 25 mil, end of story. It's not an "inability to obtain a player", it's the principle of not overpaying for someone when the money can be better spent (like on good pitching). The good news is that now the Sox can sweeten offers to Pedro and Nomar b/c of this.

 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon

You keep spouting off about the "2nd highest payroll in baseball" when there's a 75 million difference between 1 (NY) and 2 (Boston)! 75 million is more than 11 teams! Are you not aware of this?

Henry could give a dam about not getting ARod... first off, do you really think ARod is worth TWENTY FIVE MILLION a year? Please, he's worth at the most: 16-17 in my book! It's the principle of paying ARod what he's worth. Why in the world should the Red Sox get raped with a huge contract when the player isn't even worth the money he was 3 years ago??? Hell, they can go out and get more pitching if they want to spend 25 mil more a year... you could get at LEAST 2 quality pitchers for that price (Billy Wagner makes 8 mil, Kerry Wood and Prior make well under 10). Aside from the fact that Boston would not be gaining that much offensively with ARod/Ordonez vs Manny/Nomar, all they stood to gain is losing Manny's bad attitude. I don't blame Henry for putting his foot down against greedy ARod... Don't forget, ARod COULD HAVE signed with the Bosox IF he said "I don't care about what the Union says, I'm restructuring my contract to utilize rights to the Red Sox logo to account for the loss"... instead he chose NOT to renegotiate his contract for less, and hid behind the Player's Union, he knew they wouldn't approve of a restructuring of 10 mil. To translate: ARod did not want to lose money off his contract, b/c it's more important to him than winning. It didn't help, after the fact ARod lost his balls, that Larry Luch kicked him while he was down, but the reality is that IF ARod was really serious about wanting to play in Boston he could have made it happen... He chose money instead.

Furthermore, signing ARod would have pushed Boston into the luxury tax zone, and they do not make enough off contracts to take a hit like NY can afford to do.... please educate yourself about baseball MARKETS and how profit is generated/lost Wankee fans.
Oh, so Arod was supposed to tell the union to go fvck themselves to sign with the Sox, are you on crack?
The only team that screwed themselves by paying Arod $25 million a year was Texas. They are still paying 40% of his contract.
Henry is still a hypocrite. He would not have "thought" of any problem if the Sox signed Arod, but now that the Yankees did, it becomes a major problem to him. Well DUH.
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: Legendary

It would have made no sense for Steinbrenner to vote in favor of the luxury tax. There's no sense in voting for something that would only make you pay and affect few others. Henry isn't a hypocrite. He has just changed his opinion in light of his inability to obtain A-Rod.
Sarcasm?
No sarcasm. Henry didn't think ARod was worth 25 mil, end of story. It's not an "inability to obtain a player", it's the principle of not overpaying for someone when the money can be better spent (like on good pitching). The good news is that now the Sox can sweeten offers to Pedro and Nomar b/c of this.
The Yankees OVERPAID for Arod? Dude, seriously. Why don't you look at his contract.
 
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: Legendary

It would have made no sense for Steinbrenner to vote in favor of the luxury tax. There's no sense in voting for something that would only make you pay and affect few others. Henry isn't a hypocrite. He has just changed his opinion in light of his inability to obtain A-Rod.
Sarcasm?
No sarcasm. Henry didn't think ARod was worth 25 mil, end of story. It's not an "inability to obtain a player", it's the principle of not overpaying for someone when the money can be better spent (like on good pitching). The good news is that now the Sox can sweeten offers to Pedro and Nomar b/c of this.
The Yankees OVERPAID for Arod? Dude, seriously. Why don't you look at his contract.
Where did I say the YANKEES OVERPAID for AROD? BOSTON would have OVERPAID for ARod, they would have been getting screwed financially by ARod in THEIR deal. Yes, the Wankees got a much better deal than the Bosox because Texas was desparate... They got Texas to pay 9.5 mil a year on the 25 mil contract, and Arod makes 90 mil over 7 years... tha'ts roughly 13 mil a year PLUS Yankee website rights, and hotel suites for all of his games... That pushes it up another 2 mil, so do the math: 13+2+9.5 = 23.5. The Yanks are getting ARod for 16 mil, and Texas is paying 9.5 mil out of sheer desperation to get rid of "Captain AROD" lmao.

The Red Sox's deal was they would have lost one of their flamethrowers (Williamson), TX wanted Boston to pay FIVE million towards Manny's salary, and Boston wanted ARod to take 6-8 million less on his contract with rights to the Boston logo... so now why don't you tell me, why the fvck Boston should have paid AROD 22 mil (Texas offered to pay 3 mil) AND Manny FIVE mil???? THAT IS 24 (22+5-3) MILLION $ to the red (assuming they paid him the money he wanted and didn't give him logo rights) if you can't add. To reiterate, in order for BOSTON to have completed the deal they would have lost TWENTY FOUR MILLION A YEAR. Maybe I'm from a different planet or something, but no way in HELL is ARod worth that kind of money! Of course the Yanks benefitted b/c they got AROD for roughly 16 mil a year vs 24 for Boston's deal. The difference is Billy Wagner money for a *slightly* higher offensive output, and a *slightly* better defensive output in one position. Fvck no it wasn't worth it for Boston.
 
I am not saying Boston should or shouldn't have gotten Arod. But the fact remains that they tried to. So Henry is way out of line.
This conversation is going in circles.
 
As a note here, if the Sox had added A-Rod straight up then it would have been 15 million more, but they didn't, and Texas wanted
more. And to be honest the Red Sox didn't even want the 15 million more. Thats why the deal didn't get done. Because the
Red Sox didn't want to add the extra money.
 
Originally posted by: kuk
Go Orioles!

hmmm ... sighhh 🙁

Heh...yeah, I haven't seriously followed the Orioles in 6 or 7 years. Even though they've probably done better than the Skins, they just never had the appeal to me that the Redskins did.
 
I'm not in anyway a RedSox fan, but since i hate the yankees with a passion. GOO SOX!!!!

Oh well...at least we got David Wells from them. Welcome homeWells.. you Fat Drunk.(went to Pt. Loma High School in San Diego)😀
 
Originally posted by: Ynog
As a note here, if the Sox had added A-Rod straight up then it would have been 15 million more, but they didn't, and Texas wanted
more. And to be honest the Red Sox didn't even want the 15 million more. Thats why the deal didn't get done. Because the
Red Sox didn't want to add the extra money.
You can buy some pretty dam good pitching with 15 mil... free agent hitters with high RBI output are a dime a dozen. Give me some pitching with that 15 mil, and I could buy Randy Johnson and Urbina who would shut ARod down... remember, good pitching always > good hitting.
EDIT: Where did you get 15 million? Source? I thought it was +20 million... How would ARod's contract be reduced by 10 mil, while still paying out 5 mil for Manny? That's a total of 30 mil, somehow I don't think Red Sox logo rights are worth 15 mil! But I could be wrong...
 
Originally posted by: ThePresence
I am not saying Boston should or shouldn't have gotten Arod. But the fact remains that they tried to. So Henry is way out of line.
This conversation is going in circles.
So Henry is out of line for trying to better his team now? I don't get it. Obviously Boston, Texas, and ARod thought they could negotiate and agree to a deal. They couldn't, so what? If you're a single guy looking for a girl, should you not ask her out b/c you think she's out of your league? Or do you just accept it and never try, even though she's winking and beckoning for you on the other side of the room to come over and talk?
 
Originally posted by: ThePresence
I am not saying Boston should or shouldn't have gotten Arod. But the fact remains that they tried to. So Henry is way out of line.
This conversation is going in circles.
So Henry is out of line for trying to better his team now? I don't get it. Obviously Boston, Texas, and ARod thought they could negotiate and agree to a deal. They couldn't, so what? If you're a single guy looking for a girl, should you not ask her out b/c you think she's out of your league? Or do you just accept it and never try, even though she's winking and beckoning for you on the other side of the room to come over and talk?
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: ThePresence
I am not saying Boston should or shouldn't have gotten Arod. But the fact remains that they tried to. So Henry is way out of line.
This conversation is going in circles.
So Henry is out of line for trying to better his team now? I don't get it. Obviously Boston, Texas, and ARod thought they could negotiate and agree to a deal. They couldn't, so what? If you're a single guy looking for a girl, should you not ask her out b/c you think she's out of your league? Or do you just accept it and never try, even though she's winking and beckoning for you on the other side of the room to come over and talk?
You're not understanding me. He's out of line for whining about a salary cap when he tried to go get the highest paid player in the game. And when did he start whining about it? When the Yankees got the guy he was trying to get. Okay, I'm sick of this topic already, bring on the season!
 
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Soccer55
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Originally posted by: Ranger X
It's going to be a slugfest! I'm gonna enjoy this!!

Are the Red Sox are such losers that they will want to fight because the Yankees signed a good player?

No, but John Henry (Red Sox owner) is such a loser that he is now crying for a salary cap.....while the Red Sox are projected to have the 2nd highest payroll in baseball this year. It is rather coincidental that he starts to change his mind shortly after the Yankees trade for the player that the Red Sox were trying to get.....

-Tom

EDIT: Oh yeah, here's the salary cap article.

Ask the Royals, Twins, Spos, D.Rays, and A's if they agree with Henry... a cap is something that every fan of MLB would agree with, unless you're a Wankees fan... Wankees' fans need to get their heads out of their asses, the money is clogging up your brains.
Sp33d, you're missing the point. Of course most teams would agree with Henry. The point is that he's a complete hypocrite.

Hypocrite or not, Henry (who used to own a small market team) speaking for a more level playing field is a good thing for baseball. If one of the big guys is speaking for it, then hopefully more people will listen.

The Red Sox might have the 2nd highest payroll in baseball, but how much higher is the Yankees payroll?
 
Originally posted by: Storm
I'd like to see the owners vote for a hard cap. Its still not going to force owners who dont want to put money into their teams. Isnt the Twin's owner a billionaire? Thats what I heard?

Pohlad is a billionaire. I believe David Glass is one, too. But that has absolutely nothing to do with it. Personal wealth means nothing. Team revenue is everything...and that is something that is largely governed by your market size.
 
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: ThePresence
I am not saying Boston should or shouldn't have gotten Arod. But the fact remains that they tried to. So Henry is way out of line.
This conversation is going in circles.
So Henry is out of line for trying to better his team now? I don't get it. Obviously Boston, Texas, and ARod thought they could negotiate and agree to a deal. They couldn't, so what? If you're a single guy looking for a girl, should you not ask her out b/c you think she's out of your league? Or do you just accept it and never try, even though she's winking and beckoning for you on the other side of the room to come over and talk?
You're not understanding me. He's out of line for whining about a salary cap when he tried to go get the highest paid player in the game. And when did he start whining about it? When the Yankees got the guy he was trying to get. Okay, I'm sick of this topic already, bring on the season!
Uhh Henry, if he got ARod for what he's worth (which is about what NY paid), would have pushed his payroll to around 130-135mil range... I still don't see how this is REMOTELY close to NY's 160-165 mil from last year? Henry didn't want to overpay for Arod, which in the process would have pushed the payroll up to the 145-150 range... and of course since the Wankee's got a better deal b/c of Texas's desperation, Henry was pissed. And I would hardly call complaining about a 200+mil payroll "whining", he echoes the sentiments of most, if not all, owners in MLB beside Whinebrenner. Trust me, if Texas would have been willing to pay 9.5 mil off ARod's contract with Boston, we would not be having this discussion right now and ARod would be wearing Red. The Yankees were the benefactors of circumstance: ARod wanting too much money, Texas's desperation and last shot at getting the high salary monkey off their back, and the Player's Union rearing it's ugly head and vetoing it. Had any of these things gone the other way, ARod would be wearing Red. Notice how I didn't list Henry's willingness to spend more in order to get the deal done. ARod is not worth 24 mil that would come out of Boston's wallet, to reiterate.

I'm not the only one who feels this way, read up on espn.com...

15. That reminds me, don't let the national media fool you. This is not the second coming of the Ruth sale. For one thing, the Sox didn't screw up by passing on that trade. Nomar and Mags were a wash, offensively. A-Rod was obviously an upgrade from Manny -- in terms of defense, reliability and intangibles, with an advantage in homers but a lower OPS -- but the Sox were shelling out significant cash AND giving up Williamson and blue-chip prospects in the process. From a baseball standpoint, it wasn't a slam-dunk like last week's Yankees trade. I don't care what anyone else says. I wouldn't have made the deal, either.

Let the games begin.
 
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