Every generation doomed to repeat the failed Socialism experiment..

[eleison]

Like clockwork, another person tried to convince me last night that "true socialism has never been tried", therefore, it will work this time. Every generation is doomed to repeat the failed Socialism experiment.

Socialism fails for one single reason - it is not a meritocracy, therefore, the only remaining "quality" that one has to advance themselves is ruthlessness. This "quality" leads to the displacement of the grassroots leaders of the socialist movements with sociopathic individuals willing to go one step further than their predecessor - just ask Lenin if he saw Stalin coming.

All meritless systems fail to create real wealth, which should be the only measure of an enterprise's success. As wealth leaves the economy, these meritless systems fail to continue paying their supporters, so the support wanes. When the support wanes, then fascist movements, within or without, displace them. War follows, along with famine.

I am so glad that I do not have a wife and family in these times.

Personal commentary: Just saw this posted in another forum. I thought it was interesting. I believe this is happening right now. Socialism seems to always go in a circle (remember Jimmy Carter). Its like when I broke my smart phone's screen today. I've broken my pda screen before, and for the past 8 years, I've been careful to not break the smart phone's screen. But alas, history repeats itself.

Great, cannot wait until Obama is president. If history has any bearing, its going to be bad -- high unemployment, inflation, etc. It would be funny if the Bush years, in the future, were seen as the "good years'...

Yea, the odds are people will get a tax cut with Obama -- that is if they still have a job once Obama gets done fubaring it with the "share the wealth" ideology. Remember, in a bad economy the poor gets hurt the most (lost jobs, no employment, etc)... To the rich, its just one less "golden covered back scratcher" ..just my opinion 🙂

 

[nakedfrog]

I think it's ridiculous, and the people proposing it are typically ignorant hard liners who don't actually know what socialism is, or just like to use buzzwords regardless of whether or not they're correct.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

From bondage to spiritual faith;
from faith to great courage;
from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance;
from abundance to selfishness;
from selfishness to Complacency;
from complacency to apathy;
from apathy to dependency;
from dependency back again to bondage.

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
I think it's ridiculous, and the people proposing it are typically ignorant hard liners who don't actually know what socialism is, or just like to use buzzwords regardless of whether or not they're correct.

Nailed it.

 

[Farang]

We have had a progressive tax structure in this country since the income tax was introduced. So if you want to call Obama's policies socialist, then we've been socialist for a century.

 

[bdude]

Fire Dept? Socialism
Police? Socialism
Public Education? Socialism
SS? Socialism
Roads and Highways? Socialism
Military? Socialism

Wait, what is socialism again?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Democratic Socialism as implemented in Canada and England are widely considered to be successful.

Ask a Canadian if he'd want to trade his UHC for the private system we have here.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Democratic Socialism as implemented in Canada and England are widely considered to be successful.

Ask a Canadian if he'd want to trade his UHC for the private system we have here.

Plenty of Canadians come to the US for medical care.

 

[StageLeft]

Although I believe in the collective's habitual ignorance of history and preferences to repeat its worst happenings, perhaps I put my own prospective ignorance on the line when I ask when the last time the US truly had a bout with socialism is. My teachings go back to the late 18th century. Did it happen before that?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Democratic Socialism as implemented in Canada and England are widely considered to be successful.

Ask a Canadian if he'd want to trade his UHC for the private system we have here.

Plenty of Canadians come to the US for medical care.

Nonetheless, I GUARANTEE that if you ask Canada and America which holds a favorable view of their health system you'll find higher values in the Canadian respondents.

My believe of that, though, is that they are collectively under some spell. Canadian healthcare to Canadians is like July 4th to Americans. Don't question it, don't debate it. It just is.

 

[kamiller42]

This video has a pretty good review of the Bush years in regards to the economy, the turn of governments internationally, and where it seems too many Americans want to go and what that might bring.

 

[fskimospy]

Every election is doomed to repeat the same failed socialism scare. Progressive taxation is not socialism. There are many many successful countries that all have policies far far more 'socialist' than anything Obama is proposing.

America is reflexively right wing and generally ignorant of ideological terminology. This is how what Obama is proposing sounds like socialism.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Democratic Socialism as implemented in Canada and England are widely considered to be successful.

Ask a Canadian if he'd want to trade his UHC for the private system we have here.

Actually, I heard that Canadians and British were travelling here to get good health care.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Democratic Socialism as implemented in Canada and England are widely considered to be successful.

Ask a Canadian if he'd want to trade his UHC for the private system we have here.

Plenty of Canadians come to the US for medical care.

Yes, the very wealthy minority.

At 25, my wife and I were denied insurance by every carrier in the state.. what are choices? $5k for catastrophic only insurance...

Yeah, our system isd the best!

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: eleison
Yea, the odds are people will get a tax cut with Obama -- that is if they still have a job once Obama gets done fubaring it with the "share the wealth" ideology. Remember, in a bad economy the poor gets hurt the most (lost jobs, no employment, etc)... To the rich, its just one less "golden covered back scratcher" ..just my opinion 🙂

Remind me again about how many businesses will also be enjoying this tax cut and will be using it to expand and open up more jobs for people?

Remind me again of how many middle class working Americans will be starting brand new businesses with brand new jobs thanks to Obama's tax cuts?



Beyond that, nakedfrog summed it up nicely:

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
I think it's ridiculous, and the people proposing it are typically ignorant hard liners who don't actually know what socialism is, or just like to use buzzwords regardless of whether or not they're correct.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Democratic Socialism as implemented in Canada and England are widely considered to be successful.

Ask a Canadian if he'd want to trade his UHC for the private system we have here.

Plenty of Canadians come to the US for medical care.

Yes, the very wealthy minority.

At 25, my wife and I were denied insurance by every carrier in the state.. what are choices? $5k for catastrophic only insurance...

Yeah, our system isd the best!

Why do you or anybody need anything more than catastrophic insurance coverage?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Democratic Socialism as implemented in Canada and England are widely considered to be successful.

Ask a Canadian if he'd want to trade his UHC for the private system we have here.

Plenty of Canadians come to the US for medical care.

Yes, the very wealthy minority.

At 25, my wife and I were denied insurance by every carrier in the state.. what are choices? $5k for catastrophic only insurance...

Yeah, our system isd the best!

Why do you or anybody need anything more than catastrophic insurance coverage?

.....!? Because maybe some people like dealing with illness before it becomes 'catastrophic'? There's more to health care than what you end up paying, there's that other part called "health".

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
.....!? Because maybe some people like dealing with illness before it becomes 'catastrophic'? There's more to health care than what you end up paying, there's that other part called "health".

This is true, but have you ever wondered how many of those with poor insurance are in piss poor health because of their lifestyle? Obesity, smoking, physical indolence, etc.? The best prevention for most people is not regular attention with a physician but regular attention at the vegetable isle and treadmill.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Democratic Socialism as implemented in Canada and England are widely considered to be successful.

Ask a Canadian if he'd want to trade his UHC for the private system we have here.

Plenty of Canadians come to the US for medical care.

Yes, the very wealthy minority.

At 25, my wife and I were denied insurance by every carrier in the state.. what are choices? $5k for catastrophic only insurance...

Yeah, our system isd the best!

Why do you or anybody need anything more than catastrophic insurance coverage?

Wow... are you old enough to have paid for any of your own medical bills?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Democratic Socialism as implemented in Canada and England are widely considered to be successful.

Ask a Canadian if he'd want to trade his UHC for the private system we have here.

Plenty of Canadians come to the US for medical care.

Nonetheless, I GUARANTEE that if you ask Canada and America which holds a favorable view of their health system you'll find higher values in the Canadian respondents.

My believe of that, though, is that they are collectively under some spell. Canadian healthcare to Canadians is like July 4th to Americans. Don't question it, don't debate it. It just is.

Shrug; they merely ration healthcare different than we do. Our quality of life in the United States is different; we have many more luxuries across the board.

 

[sammyunltd]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Democratic Socialism as implemented in Canada and England are widely considered to be successful.

Ask a Canadian if he'd want to trade his UHC for the private system we have here.

Actually, I heard that Canadians and British were travelling here to get good health care.

They come to the USA because the waiting lists are long and some of our hospitals are old/lacking the technology that some US hospitals have.

 

[Vic]

It never ceases to amaze me how Republican FUD is always on the same page every day.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: OneOfTheseDays
Democratic Socialism as implemented in Canada and England are widely considered to be successful.

Ask a Canadian if he'd want to trade his UHC for the private system we have here.

Plenty of Canadians come to the US for medical care.

Yes, the very wealthy minority.

At 25, my wife and I were denied insurance by every carrier in the state.. what are choices? $5k for catastrophic only insurance...

Yeah, our system isd the best!

Why do you or anybody need anything more than catastrophic insurance coverage?

.....!? Because maybe some people like dealing with illness before it becomes 'catastrophic'? There's more to health care than what you end up paying, there's that other part called "health".

Then go deal with it? The presence of health insurance has nothing to do with the presence of health care unless you choose to make it so.

 

[Arkaign]

The premise of the OP is almost laughable.

The whining and crying from the GOP and right this time around, with constant cries of 'socialism' as a response to Obama's proposals, falls flat on its face when you look at the ~700b (at minimum) bailout the GOP just pushed through (with Dem help of course).

Further, Sweden has been FAR more socialist than Obama is proposing, and their standard of living, health, education, etc, has been a fundamental success for much longer than a 'generation'.

Do I think we should move as far left as Sweden? No I don't, for a variety of reasons including our non-homogeneous population.

But to blather a generality like 'the failed Socialism experiment' is grossly ignorant. One could just as easily look at failed policies by conservatives in their respective nations and say something stupid like 'the failed right-wing experiment'.

Specifics > Generalities.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: eskimospy
.....!? Because maybe some people like dealing with illness before it becomes 'catastrophic'? There's more to health care than what you end up paying, there's that other part called "health".

This is true, but have you ever wondered how many of those with poor insurance are in piss poor health because of their lifestyle? Obesity, smoking, physical indolence, etc.? The best prevention for most people is not regular attention with a physician but regular attention at the vegetable isle and treadmill.

I most certainly agree.

I think only the most foolish would attempt to argue that regular checkups aren't an excellent contributor to health however.