Even using Intel's iCOMP benchmark program: AMD wins

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celeron550

Member
Mar 13, 2000
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thats all fine and well,but 'real world' bechmarks show another story with intel winning the most important ones(especially from a gamers point).....this point has been proved by every cpu test in almost all reviews(except amd biased sites..funny that:) )
 
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cdrakejr

Senior member
Apr 13, 2000
354
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"real world benchmarks" "almost all reviews"

I'm not sure what reviews you've been reading? Can you reference some other than these?

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1252
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1261
http://www.arstechnica.com/reviews/2q00/duron/duron-1.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q2/000623/index.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q2/000605/index.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q2/000619/index.html
http://www.pcmech.com/article.htm?duron-vs-celeron
http://www.gamepc.com/reviews/hardware_review.asp?review=duron&pg=1

None of these used "real world benchmarks"?

Yes, I know I didn't list Sharky Extreme. But then we could have a discussion about Intel biased sites.:D
 
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DigitalJesus

Banned
Jun 24, 2000
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Intel is just plain better why dont you people get it!
sure you pay more! but there's nothing like getting behind the wheel of my 1162mhz PIII Whoya Happy 4th INTEL! Somebody loves ya;p
 
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JumpJoe

Senior member
Oct 13, 1999
550
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after a quick glimps comparing the thunderbird vs PIII clock for clock, the PIII got spanked in the following benchmarks


http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1252&p=12
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1252&p=15
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1252&p=16
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1252&p=17 high resolution
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1252&p=21
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1252&p=23
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1252&p=24
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1252&p=25

http://www.arstechnica.com/reviews/2q00/duron/duron-3.html

Also worth noting that in the few benchmarks the PIII does win, it's by a paper thin margin while in many of the benchmarks the AThlon wins(fpu intensive), the Athlon spanked the PIII by a wide margin.


Here's my opinion on the BX chipset and why it looks so good on some bench. The PCI and AGP slots are also being overclocked beyond spec.
 
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rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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<< Here's my opinion on the BX chipset and why it looks so good on some bench. The PCI and AGP slots are also being overclocked beyond spec >>


It don't matter how they get there, if it is faster it is faster.

In most of the benchmarks I have seen, and going by anands own benchmarks when comparing, the P3 is the faster choice when it comes to gaming.
 
MadRat

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,965
279
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If AGP overclocking is so cool then VIA and AMD should support it, too. Truth is that AGP overclocking doesn't do a whole lot. The 133fsb in a synchronous memory solution has lower latency than in an asynchronous-equipped motherboard.

VIA Pro133, Pro133A, and Intel 800-series chipsets all use asynchronous memory solutions.
 
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Ulysses

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2000
2,136
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I've seen many benchmarks and it looks to me like (with the exception of professional/OpenGL apps) the P3 Coppermines and the new Athlons are about even in performance, with perhaps a slight nod to the new Athlon. While the old Athlon really surpassed the Katmai, the performance lead was quickly retaken by Intel with their Coppermine. Now with the new Athlon the score is about even. This has disappointed many, including Anand &amp; Tom Pabst.

My question is this:
When you consider that P3 Coppermines are generally much more overclockable than Athlons, doesn't this tilt the performance benchmarks in favor of Intel?

The forums are filled with people with highly overclocked Coppermines and Celerons, but I don't see too many Athlons like that (in fact I've seen a number of Q's like 'why won't my Athlon o'clock higher'). And I know there are individuals that have had great o'clocking results with their Athlons - but I'm talking about the bigger picture here. I had the impression that this poor overclocking record was due to the EV6 bus already running @ DDR.

If I'm right, then for overclockers the price differential in favor of AMD may be an illusion.

I'm not trying to take a position here in favor of Intel or AMD - I just want to be thinking correctly when I choose a platform.

It just seems to me that you are more likely to get a P3 700/100 Coppermine to 840/120 or higher than an Athlon 700/200/100 to 770/220/110. And the 840 P3 is about equal in performance to an Athlon 800, which costs about the same as the P3 700, per SE @ OEM.

Thus, if the performance of an Athlon 800 and a P3 700 (when overclocked to 840) is about the same, and their prices are about the same, then I think I'd prefer an Intel BX or 815E chipset to the checkeded record of AMD or VIA chipsets, or at least be indifferent.


Just curious - not trying to start a war !

:)
 
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JumpJoe

Senior member
Oct 13, 1999
550
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PIII is not faster for gaming.

In the very few benchmarks that the PIII does win, it wins by
93 fps vs 92 fps. At frame rates anything beyond 40 fps, I dare anybody to say they can feel 41 fps is faster than 40 fps.

Also note that the Athlon parts does better on higher resolutions. In gaming benchmarks the PIII does win, the AThlon always closes the gap even more or over takes the PIII. Why is that?

I recall somebody call winwinwin and Saturn selling tons of Athlon overclocked 100 - 200mhz beyond spec. Perhaps you can ask them how overclockable those Athlon are? I'm sure they wouldn't be in the biz of it was a rare occurance.
 
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han888

Golden Member
Apr 7, 2000
1,586
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i got both system here, i got ahtlon 700@750 using asus k7v, 256 sdram and p3 800EB using asus p3v4x, 256 sdram, and let we see the peformance here!!!

P3-800EB

cpu benchmark: 2182/1080
multimedia benchmark: 2536/3377
cpumark99: 69,5


Athlon 700@750

cpu benchmark: 2366/1050
multimedia benhmark: 2565/3519
cpumark:68,7

it;s look like my ahtlon is over my p3-800 :)



 
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rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
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those links you are using use V5. Give me some Geforce 2 benchmarks comparing athlon to P3. I certainly would not chose an Athlon over a Coppermine for Gaming

Han888: Synthetic benchmarks don't mean squat
 
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IceStorm

Senior member
Feb 7, 2000
209
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cdrakejr

Senior member
Apr 13, 2000
354
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Ice Storm,

Despite your contention, I did not post this information to start a fight. My assumption was that forums are places to discuss issues, and people have strong feelings on issues. Following your logic we should do away with political parties, religion, racial equality, etc since they all lead to strong debate and sometimes discord.
If you have a problem with the information posted, then you need to take that up with the webmaster at cpuscorecard.
I made a factual statement about the results that were obtained from using an Intel program. You may not like the results of that program, but they are the results. And yes, I did like them.
How people react to that information is no reason to bury it away out of sight for fear it may cause some people distress.
Freedom of expression is still a basic civil right as far as I know.
Interesting that you would object to it on the 4th of July.
Fortunately not everyone seems to be so uptight.
Disappointed to have to post something like this but I don't care to be maligned.
 
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IceStorm

Senior member
Feb 7, 2000
209
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&quot;fight&quot; wasn't intended as a slight against you.

The part about having it in two forums seems, with the same title, same subject, and not telling each that the other exists, that I'd not have done, personally.

Was just pointing this out.
 
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Wixer

Member
Dec 31, 1999
110
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Hope i Don't get flamed for this....
Everyone said they sold tons of Overclock Athlons......and Everyone said their P3P 550E overclock like a gem....the big picture is....ever wonder why Intel sells a lot more CPU than AMD....a whole lot more...You tell me.

Rgds,
Wixer
 
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Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
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Ulysses: &quot;P3's generally overclock better&quot;...I don't agree.

I was always a Wintel guy until I put together my first Athlon system. I picked an 850 Athlon and a KA7-100 mobo for a grand total of $450. I put it together, cranked up the FSB to 119, and now I have a 1ghz rig. Assuming you can find a 800 coppermine at all, I believe it is much more than the $300 I paid for my Athlon. Also, I didn't need to worry about what stepping I have or what week it is, I just picked up an OEM and never looked back. I am not using a GFD and I only have Generic PC-100, which is running just fine at cas2. I highly doubt I could put together a 1ghz Intel rig for the same cash. I have seen some Athlon 700's hitting 1ghz, that's a 300mhz overclock, seems pretty good to me. I have seen many benchmarks comparing the P3 and Athlon and when it came to gaming the Athlon almost always came out on top. The P3 only won on exotic set-up's like i820 and with DDR ram or something. The basic fact, whether you like Intel or AMD, is that the Athlon is a newer, superior design to the P3. I know the limit of the P3 architecture is just over the 1ghz mark. The &quot;new&quot; phantom 1.13ghz is already confirmed to be the last P3 CPU by Intel I believe. The K7 Athlon/T-Bird/Duron core is scalable up to 1.5ghz or so. This is my opinion only, but it is based on sound research. If you do not agree, that is fine. I picked the best set-up for the money I could find, and the Athlon was just that.
 
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Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
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Rickn: &quot;Synthetic benchmarks don't mean squat&quot;

Well, if that is so true, than why does every CPU review or comparison use them? They must just be putting those tests in there to confuse us....Thanks for clearing that up...
 
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IceStorm

Senior member
Feb 7, 2000
209
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Insane 3D, good to hear the VIA chipsets are coming along. Perhaps by xmas I'll be ready to try another Athlon, if reports like yours are more common.

Of course, by then RDRAM will be down to affordable and i850 will be out. Never know, though.
 
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rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
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Insane3d: I'm willing to pit my P3 650e@962 with a Geforce DDR clocked at 150/351 on my P3v4x(VIA 133a) against your Athlon in some benchmarks. Quake 3, 3dmark 2000, Expendable, MDK2.
 
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NeoZGeo

Senior member
May 16, 2000
357
0
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I don't know about benchmarks, I've saw the same benchmark but different result on the exact same chip. But I know one thing, Intel sell more chip than AMD does, they ARE more reliable than AMD. For example, just after Geforce card came out, AMD had problems with it. I don't see intel has problems with that, besides AGP, PCI, USB etc are all designed by Intel I don't see AMD does any of that, and you tell me AMD's chip is more compatible and reliable than Intel. Okay intel chip is more expensive than amd but is it the price that you consider the most or the quality?
 
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Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
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Rickn, are you running PC-100? My memory is only running at 119mhz, if you have an o/c coppermine, I would guess you have at least PC-133, so it would not be an accurate test. I noticed that you excluded any Sandra tests, is that because Intel usually doesn't do well in those? I am glad you have great success with your set-up, and I have no doubt it is fast. I am curious, have you ever had an Athlon rig? If you haven't than how can you be sure about Intel being better if you only have experience with Intel chips. I have had a P2, and a P3 system, and I like my Athlon set-up much better. I just stated that IN MY EXPERIENCE the Athlon is a better CPU. You stated earlier that it doesn't matter how they got there in reference to the BX chipset having it's bus speeds running faster. If you are going to compare two CPU's at the same clock speed to see which is faster in things like 3D games, to make it a fair test variables like bus speed should be identical. If the BX chipset is running a AGP bus of 80 or higher, and the Athlon one is not, then your results are not going to be a fair result. Just like a coppermine in a i820 with DDR compared to a Athlon on a irongate chipset with SDRAM, this is not a scientific test. I am not sure, maybe your set-up is faster than mine, but I really don't care, quite frankly. I just know that my system is fast and with my Geforce I get framerates above 100 in games like UT and Q3, and if your P3 gets above that, then you are MUCH cooler than me!

BTW- If I wanted to I could buy a 1ghz Athlon at several places, could you buy a 1ghz P3 anywhere?

 
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Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
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NeoZGeo, the problems with the Geforce and the Athlon were related to the AMD 750 Irongate chipset, not the Athlon itself.... I am running my Geforce with AGP4x, Sideband, and Fast Writes with no problems. Also, you say Intel sells more chips than AMD?? Have you not heard of the supply problems with Intel? I guess that is why every major computer manufacturer, except DELL, are now making Athlon systems. I read somewhere that for every 900mhz P3 that is shipped to a supplier, AMD ships like 12 Athlon 900's. I think the supply problems are squarely on Intel's shoulders.
 
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