Even More News on R520 Delay

[Xentropy]

Originally posted by: zendari
Actually, thats not quite correct, since SLI doesn't often offer close to a 2x benefit.

Price/performance graphs

Good point. Still, even at $599 the P/P is only about 20% worse than the 6800GT's, and usually the ultra-high-end suffers a wider P/P penalty than that. Change the GTX to the $540 I paid and the difference comes out closer to 10%. You'll note the P/P is *better* than the 6800 Ultra (which is the only other high-end nVidia card on the market right now) even paying full MSRP for the GTX. The GTX they were reviewing was a reference board, too, so the BFG should outscore it (due to factory OC) as well as being 10% cheaper than stated there (thanks to an admittedly abnormally awesome deal from Best Buy). So, overall, not as overpriced as people make it out to be. 200% as expensive for roughly 180% of the speed. Not as far out in left field as previous generations have been, asking more like 200% as expensive for 150% of the speed at launch. (If this were like any other generation gap, the prev gen ultra model would've been down to $300 by now; last gen's low availability is still affecting price drops >12 months later, causing the P/P shift to be more favorable in the high end this time around.)

The fact a deal as good as 10% off MSRP was available the week of launch, I doubt Best Buy will be the only ones, and things could get even better over the next month. Availability causes price drops much more quickly and drastically than last gen's OOS-everywhere-always phenomenon. I wouldn't be surprised if you could pick up a 7800GTX for $450-$500 with an eagle eye for a deal sometime before the R520 sees the light of day.

 

[imported_X]

Also keep in mind that performance is measured by more than raw speed. The price/performance graphs ignore improvements to image quality in the 7800, such as SSAA and transparent AA.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Xentropy
What if it confirmed it's a 32-pipe and will crush the 7800GTX and said it'd be out in October.

Oops, wait, December, just in time for Christmas.

Oh, crap, spring 2006.

Summer. Really!

You must have misread the thread. They are talking about ATI, not Microsoft.

 

[5150Joker]

ATi not releasing info. on the R520 affects consumers like me that are in the process of upgrading to a PCI-e system. I just sold off most of my AGP parts and have ordered a new motherboard, psu, and watercooling block but I haven't picked up the 7800 GTX yet because I was hoping info. on the R520 would come out. However, I don't have the patience to wait 2-3 months for something that may not even be worth it so my money will be going to nVidia soon as the buyer pays me for my X800XT PE. ATi is losing customers because of this and right now would be a perfect time for them to do a paper launch. Sony, AMD and Intel have no qualms with paper launches, so neither should ATi.

 

[Keysplayr]

I think it must be actually worse than we all think. I hope ATI does not have another X700XT on their hands. You know, smacked with the big "CANCELLED" stick???

For ATI not to even do a paper launch at this point reflects very badly, at least to me, about the state of readiness of their next product, R520. I wonder how many times ATI will have to tape this thing out, because every time they do, that adds at least another 120 days before it gets to market. I'm getting worried here that I will not be able to afford a 7800GTX anytime soon. Nothing to drive down prices. If ATI can't even do a paper launch, then us "poor" folk are doomed

 

[jiffylube1024]

These delays from ATI annoy me. They've gotta get their act together!

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
For ATI not to even do a paper launch at this point reflects very badly, at least to me, about the state of readiness of their next product, R520.

Please, elaborate. How would a paper launch HELP this situation?

 

[Killrose]

The R520 delay does'nt affect me or many of you who complain about the delay, because we can't afford one anyway's. I can't validate buying a 7800 or any card in the $350+ range even though I game about 3-4hrs a day.

Though I get excited about new video card releases and sometimes caught up in the nVidia vs Ati vs ? squables, my understanding is that a company will certainly release a new product when they feel it is ready. R520 is not quite ready yet.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

For ATI not to even do a paper launch at this point reflects very badly, at least to me, about the state of readiness of their next product, R520.

Ati has never done anything that does not reflect badly to you, so this statement unfortunately has lost its meaning. :beer: The majority of us will continue to buy the best card available for the dollar in our price range.

 

[zendari]

Where did you get a $540 BFG 7800 OC? The Bestbuy deal is $550 but they charge sales tax, bringing it back up to $590 or so.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

For ATI not to even do a paper launch at this point reflects very badly, at least to me, about the state of readiness of their next product, R520.

Ati has never done anything that does not reflect badly to you, so this statement unfortunately has lost its meaning. :beer: The majority of us will continue to buy the best card available for the dollar in our price range.

You can just take your fanboy accusing a$$ and get it the F away from me ronnn.
My comment was serious. I want ATI to get their card to market one way or another. If you don't "believe this" than you can just shove it.

EDIT: If the sole reason I want ATI to get their card to market is to force nvidia to lower the prices on their 7800GTX, that is my perogitive. You have no say in it. As of right now, this is the case becase what else do I have to go on from ATI? Nothing but rumors. Right?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
For ATI not to even do a paper launch at this point reflects very badly, at least to me, about the state of readiness of their next product, R520.

Please, elaborate. How would a paper launch HELP this situation?

With a paper launch, we would then HAVE A CLUE of what to expect from ATI. For example; ATI launches the X900XTPE with 32 pipes 600MHz core 256 or 512 MB GDDR3 at 1600MHz yada yada yada.

If these were the specs, I might be inclined to wait for it to come out instead of buying an nvidia card. Nvidia will see this is as a common thought process amoung consumers and will have to lower prices accordingly. They know that people will wait to buy the ATI card with those kinds of specs right? I would. I would want to purchase a 32 pipe over a 24 pipe card right off the bat. Just for the sake of having more pipes whether or not the number of pipes corresponds to performance or not.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

For ATI not to even do a paper launch at this point reflects very badly, at least to me, about the state of readiness of their next product, R520.

Ati has never done anything that does not reflect badly to you, so this statement unfortunately has lost its meaning. :beer: The majority of us will continue to buy the best card available for the dollar in our price range.

You can just take your fanboy accusing a$$ and get it the F away from me ronnn.
My comment was serious. I want ATI to get their card to market one way or another. If you don't "believe this" than you can just shove it.

Paper launching a video card won't get it to the market any quicker and will only anger potential consumers. I think a pre-release set of reviews would be helpful, but not a paper launch.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

For ATI not to even do a paper launch at this point reflects very badly, at least to me, about the state of readiness of their next product, R520.

Ati has never done anything that does not reflect badly to you, so this statement unfortunately has lost its meaning. :beer: The majority of us will continue to buy the best card available for the dollar in our price range.

You can just take your fanboy accusing a$$ and get it the F away from me ronnn.
My comment was serious. I want ATI to get their card to market one way or another. If you don't "believe this" than you can just shove it.

Paper launching a video card won't get it to the market any quicker and will only anger potential consumers. I think a pre-release set of reviews would be helpful, but not a paper launch.

Now your just inventing ways in which to disagree. YESSSSSSS whatever!!! paper launch, or pre-release who gives a crap? On paper they are different yes, but not in the real world. Both will let us know what we cant have yet.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

For ATI not to even do a paper launch at this point reflects very badly, at least to me, about the state of readiness of their next product, R520.

Ati has never done anything that does not reflect badly to you, so this statement unfortunately has lost its meaning. :beer: The majority of us will continue to buy the best card available for the dollar in our price range.

You can just take your fanboy accusing a$$ and get it the F away from me ronnn.
My comment was serious. I want ATI to get their card to market one way or another. If you don't "believe this" than you can just shove it.

Paper launching a video card won't get it to the market any quicker and will only anger potential consumers. I think a pre-release set of reviews would be helpful, but not a paper launch.

Now your just inventing ways in which to disagree. YESSSSSSS whatever!!! paper launch, or pre-release who gives a crap? On paper they are different yes, but not in the real world. Both will let us know what we cant have yet.

There is an important distinction between a "paper launch" and "pre-release reviews" Keys! Let me elaborate by discussing the delay of the nV30 to market back in 2003.....

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Now your just inventing ways in which to disagree. YESSSSSSS whatever!!! paper launch, or pre-release who gives a crap? On paper they are different yes, but not in the real world. Both will let us know what we cant have yet.

Please excuse me for my inability to mind read a message posted on the internet. You said "paper launch" so I mistakenly assumed you MEANT "paper launch".

My bad.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: vision33r
This is reminiscent of the Nvidia 4600 era when ATI launched the 9700 series and nvidia was late with the 5 series. Everyone thought Nvidia would be doomed..

Not exactly. 7800GTX is nowhere near the difference in performance 9700 experienced over 4600 cards. It is more like geforce 3 to geforce 4 jump. Also geforce 5 series u speak off, was slower than 9700 series. I am confident that given all the rumours and information that R520 will be faster than G70.

 

[Xentropy]

Originally posted by: zendari
Where did you get a $540 BFG 7800 OC? The Bestbuy deal is $550 but they charge sales tax, bringing it back up to $590 or so.

Oregon doesn't charge a sales tax. And I'm a member of the Reward Zone, so I'll get almost $20 in coupons back from my purchase. The effective price I paid comes out to around $539.60 including $8 2-day shipping.

Since almost any major site (newegg, etc.) will charge you sales tax if you live in the wrong state, I really don't see why people point at the sales tax and say the deal is invalid. If your state charges sales tax, add 8% to every price from the major e-tailers with a warehousing presense in the major states.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Now your just inventing ways in which to disagree. YESSSSSSS whatever!!! paper launch, or pre-release who gives a crap? On paper they are different yes, but not in the real world. Both will let us know what we cant have yet.

Please excuse me for my inability to mind read a message posted on the internet. You said "paper launch" so I mistakenly assumed you MEANT "paper launch".

My bad.

You did not get anything wrong Creig. Its just your inflexible mind. Paper Launch and Pre-release are two different things from a PR standpoint but accomplish the same exact damn thing. Get the much needed information out to the starving masses (us) so we can better decide what to do (or not do YET) with our money. You can play the word by word by word game guys, but it just wastes my time and everyone elses. Can we use a little common sense and a little less tight-assness around here please? eh????

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Now your just inventing ways in which to disagree. YESSSSSSS whatever!!! paper launch, or pre-release who gives a crap? On paper they are different yes, but not in the real world. Both will let us know what we cant have yet.

Please excuse me for my inability to mind read a message posted on the internet. You said "paper launch" so I mistakenly assumed you MEANT "paper launch".

My bad.

You did not get anything wrong Creig. Its just your inflexible mind. Paper Launch and Pre-release are two different things from a PR standpoint but accomplish the same exact damn thing. Get the much needed information out to the starving masses (us) so we can better decide what to do (or not do YET) with our money. You can play the word by word by word game guys, but it just wastes my time and everyone elses. Can we use a little common sense and a little less tight-assness around here please? eh????

Err. Paper launch means that you launch your product on that day saying there is availability of it on that day and not acutally producing any availibility or very small quantities of it on that day, then 2 months later they all start flooding in.

Examples of paper launches. X850, X800, 6800. All paper launched. All said to be in stock with retailers on that certain date, and 3 or 4 months later, they actually WERE in stock.

So the meaning of paper launch is the launch of the product is only produced on paper, but no in the actual object.

Pre release review or Preview is totally different. Its where specifications and benchmarks or even review sites like AT get engineering samples or product samples earlier than when the object is launched. So that ppl can get a first look at them before the actual product is launeched.

Pre release review. Meaning a review before the product is released.
Preview. Meaning a review of the product before its released.

So if specifications and reviews came out before the product was launched would you call that a paper launch? Well no one else would because nothing has been launched or released has it?

PR standpoint of the difference of paper launch and pre release are still 2 totally different things. Again try expanding the world pre release. It actually means Preview release. A preview of a product that is GOING to be released.

I think your hatred for Creig is blinding you from being understanding of the 2 different things...

 

[trinibwoy]

You guys are arguing semantics. A paper launch and a preview with no availability is the same damn thing as far as any buyer is concerned. If you need to upgrade now, you have only one choice. If you just want to upgrade now but have no real need to then nobody is forcing you to buy a 7800, just wait on the R520 whenever it arrives.

Do you know what kind of folly this preview thing would encourage? How would you feel if ATi had shipped out a few working R520's for review back in April when they were still having yield issues? Not only that, but showing your hand without actual product to ship just gives your competition free time to develop a response.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Now your just inventing ways in which to disagree. YESSSSSSS whatever!!! paper launch, or pre-release who gives a crap? On paper they are different yes, but not in the real world. Both will let us know what we cant have yet.

Please excuse me for my inability to mind read a message posted on the internet. You said "paper launch" so I mistakenly assumed you MEANT "paper launch".

My bad.

You did not get anything wrong Creig. Its just your inflexible mind. Paper Launch and Pre-release are two different things from a PR standpoint but accomplish the same exact damn thing. Get the much needed information out to the starving masses (us) so we can better decide what to do (or not do YET) with our money. You can play the word by word by word game guys, but it just wastes my time and everyone elses. Can we use a little common sense and a little less tight-assness around here please? eh????

Err. Paper launch means that you launch your product on that day saying there is availability of it on that day and not acutally producing any availibility or very small quantities of it on that day, then 2 months later they all start flooding in.

Examples of paper launches. X850, X800, 6800. All paper launched. All said to be in stock with retailers on that certain date, and 3 or 4 months later, they actually WERE in stock.

So the meaning of paper launch is the launch of the product is only produced on paper, but no in the actual object.

Pre release review or Preview is totally different. Its where specifications and benchmarks or even review sites like AT get engineering samples or product samples earlier than when the object is launched. So that ppl can get a first look at them before the actual product is launeched.

Pre release review. Meaning a review before the product is released.
Preview. Meaning a review of the product before its released.

So if specifications and reviews came out before the product was launched would you call that a paper launch? Well no one else would because nothing has been launched or released has it?

PR standpoint of the difference of paper launch and pre release are still 2 totally different things. Again try expanding the world pre release. It actually means Preview release. A preview of a product that is GOING to be released.

I think your hatred for Creig is blinding you from being understanding of the 2 different things...

O............................M.........................F.......................G.................! Duh...
Does a paper launch tell you about the product? .....yes....
Does a Preview tell you about the product?.............yes again....
Do you see my point? Oh? Not if I don't see yours first? Whatever man. You guys are arguing semantics. Well have fun. Everyone seems to have the preternatural power to understand what I am talking about but you. I think even Creig is getting it now. And FYI? Blind hatred for Creig? WTF are you smoking? I don't hate him at all. We just disagree about every frigging thing known and unknown to man.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: trinibwoy
You guys are arguing semantics. A paper launch and a preview with no availability is the same damn thing as far as any buyer is concerned. If you need to upgrade now, you have only one choice. If you just want to upgrade now but have no real need to then nobody is forcing you to buy a 7800, just wait on the R520 whenever it arrives.

Do you know what kind of folly this preview thing would encourage? How would you feel if ATi had shipped out a few working R520's for review back in April when they were still having yield issues? Not only that, but showing your hand without actual product to ship just gives your competition free time to develop a response.

Yes but I don't really care whats best for the company actually. I care about us consumers and our knowlegde base here. If we only have 7800GTX to consider, there is not much else to say.

 

[Blastman]

Well, it?s nice to see NV fans cheering for ATI to gets their new cards out quick -- even if it?s only for lower NV cards prices.

From what I understand, ATI is going to release a whole new lineup, so there will be new cards for midrange enthusiasts. People looking for a new ATI card will be able to get something well under the $500-600 range.

I?ve read a lot of the rumors. The people that are in the-know are being very tight lipped. But anyway, they?ve dropped a few hints and I?m going to state what I think are a few relevant tidbits.

We are likely to see very high clock rates -- 600Mhz+, maybe even 700Mhz. ATI had designed the new chips using a new X-architecture technology ?

guru3d

As posted on ExtremeTech: Only time will tell if ATI will shout the news from its corporate rooftops, but according to the X Initiative, when it ships later this year an unspecified ATI PCI-Express graphics processor will be the first X Architecture chip on the market. Before you drift off into dreams of the X-Men and Wolverine's Adamantine augmented skeleton, let us explain.

The X Initiative is a group of semiconductor companies promoting the X architecture for processors. (The group is fairly large, but doesn't include many of the major players in chip design, such at Intel, AMD, IBM and Freescale.)

X Architecture is about bringing diagonal interconnects (or diagonal routing) into the design of a chip.
Normally a chip uses all right angles to connect its various bits and pieces. According to the X Initiative, "The X Architecture rotates the primary direction of the interconnect in the fourth and fifth metal layers by 45 degrees" from the traditional right angles, but remains compatible with "existing cell libraries, memory cells, compilers and IP cores by preserving the Manhattan geometry of metal layers one through three." The X Initive says this is the first "production-worthy approach" to the "pervasive use" of this design.

Why would a chip company move from the decades old right angle, or "Manhattan" chip design? Try a 20 percent reduction in wiring on a chip, which the X Initiative claims will "reduce chip costs, increase performance and lower power consumption."
extremtech ?

The next thing that I?m getting hints at is that the R520 will see a huge increase in memory bandwidth, 2x the current high end chips, either through a 512bit bus, or a quad pumped DDR 256bit bus.

How many pipes and the configuration of the GPU is still a mystery to me. The hints lean to a similar 16 pipe ?hybrid? like NV?s 7800, with 16 ROP?s (render output pipelines) and a large fast shader engine along the lines of the 7800?s 24 pipe design.

 

[Shamrock]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
If you people don't stop calling the Inquirer "news", I'm going to go on a killing spree.

Rumors. Rumors is the f*cking word you're looking for.

No, the "proper" term would be....

Internet Tabloid

Why? They post a small piece of news, that is partially correct, then make the rest of the entire article SO BROAD in persective that they absolutely cannot be wrong.

Now, go read the National Inquirer on newsstands, they have "partially correct" news in articles, but then stretch them and broaden them to the point that they dont lie...hence why they dont get banned from shelves for posting "news".