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Originally posted by: Cadop
You guys talking about this game is making me want to give it a try. Any suggestions for good reading material?
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Devour the forums at www.eve-online.com

Devour the item database at http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/ to start understanding the ships, modules, skills and what the strengths and weaknesses are.

Download the free trial... join a good corp as soon as possible... remember there are no rules 🙂
 
@TGS

Not quoting as its getting to big :0

Sounds like maybe you messed up your character's attributes or something because it seems far too long for those skills. I will say to anyone starting a new char... dont bother with any charisma ... its only useful for very few things (corp management and social skills). Perception, Memory, Willpower are they key ones to get high stats on.

Fastest way to effective combat (and by effective I mean capable of basic piracy yarrrr).....

Frigate Level 3 (maybe 24 hours?)
Weaponry according to your race ship upto level 3 (24 hours)
Electronic Warfare Skills (For scrambling and webbing victims) 3-4 days (due to needing a fair few pre-req's)

Voila - within say 5-6 days you can take on cruisers, industrials, destroyers,

Add Another cycle of 6 days for equivalent in Cruiser level gear and ships and you can certainly give the easier Battleships a good fight.

How many other games would allow someone the equivalent of a level 10 in WoW terms to take on level 40-50's within 2 weeks? The answer is none!! So how people can say the skills system holds them back I have no idea. Best thing is you havent had to kill 5000 pigs, 2500 wolves or rescue a motorised chicken from a goblin on the way!!
 
Forgive me on the names, but I was still a few weeks out from my third tier strip miner ship. That from the second tier strip miner. Don't get me wrong I Approve of how the skill system works. It's a passive system that reallly works to your advantage when you do not have a great deal of time to devote to the game. Though when you do, you are required to grind still. You grind for money for your skill books. Either missions, mining, or pirating the grind still exists. Certainly there are a few interesting ways to turn ISK, but there is still that forced mechanism.

Also prior to my first two weeks in the game, I did research on the skill system and really laid out the foundation for a mining/ship building. Which favored high Intelligence and Memory, which in turned helped with the learning skills. I tucked those under my belt to at least level 4 on my core skills and 3 in my off skills to improve times.

Though like you mentioned I practically had all that setup verbatim. I had initial episodes with being pod killed running the starter missions, twice. So I figured moving into this brave new world I would need a ship to defend myself. Frig 3, missile and turret upgrades, grid upgrades, shields, electronic warfare. Though doing this prevented my real goals of being a big haul miner. To me mining is "boring" in the sense you don't have to "typically" worry about being podded. Though I wanted to move further into 0,0 with my corp mates. They encouraged people to skill up to make the best of the runs. They also had a section devoted to just pvp fighting, which was nice.

Though like I said, when I'm on I would appreciate the ability to further training while I'm on. For example, I was mining in a quiet high sec area and went off to get a drink or whatnot and came back to find myjetcan had been pilferred. So I have to go back to the station my merlin is sitting in, fit it up for combat and get back. Now since I was focusing on deep core mining, I missed training up for missile launchers. So I have to wait to finish, then I can try to hunt down the guy who invaded my can. Though by this time the pirate is no longer flagged for me to kill.

It's no so much a fault of the skill progression per say, but how little some skills overlap into other aspects of the game. Deep Core mining has absolutely nothing to do with combat training so you have to start at a 10-30 minute skill, sit at the computer and wait it out to flip it over to the next hour tier etc. In the downtime between resetting, you still have to grind for the ISK for ships and more training. The open ended issue is *how* you get the ISK to do that. Though it still requires the grind mentality to get you there. It's not a ZZZZbest scenario where some nice guy flies up to you and says enjoy. You trade killing wolves for running missions, mining, or running a corporation of people doing those things for you.

I can appreciate how if done right, and you even mentioned that you *can* jump right into the pvp fray and have a respectable ship. Though if you get sidetracked by the long term goal, you are more or less forced from that aspect of the game. Or a great deal of it. It's a dual edged sword approach to me.


edit: Just for clarification I did about 3 months of Eve before I put it on ice.
 
Im bored at work so I'll throw out a few more examples/stories

The aforementioned goon fleet was causing us trouble. There we were prancing around in our 500million to 3 billion isk battleships with all kinds of exotic modules and yet these swarms of newbies would attack in their throwaway ships and take one or two players out each time. They are really hard to fight in a battleship as they get so close and are so fast they are impossible for big turrets and missiles to track.

Some people went to moan on the forums, some people threw tantrums and smacktalk.

I went an fitted an apocalypse with 8 Large Smartbombs. I sat as bait on the gate and the next attack it was pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop as they died in a surging 10km pulse of destruction! On my cue, the rest of my squadron warped in and mopped the rest up as my capacitor was empty and they could have finished me off!

Another time I flew a raven and was taken out by just 6 of them in frigates, I didnt scratch any of them!! less than maybe 600k worth of ships took out about 2-300 million worth of my battleship!!!

I fought the same guy 3 times in 2 days... battleship v battleship, me in a megathron and he in a raven. Each time we would literally beat each other to a pulp but neither had enough power left to finish the other off. The 4th occasion I changed my setup completely... switched to projectile weapons instead of hybrids as they use less energy (yet do less damage for me), switched from using combat drones to armour repair drones, and used 2 seige launchers to fire torpedoes in order to increase my dps, fitted an energy drainer to suck energy from him to my own ship and removed my warp scrambler (in the hope he would just assume I had one like I had the 3 previous times and thus not even try to warp away) so that I could fit another capacitor recharger.

I beat him in 3 minutes flat!!!

A change in modules, a bit of psychology and an enormous chunk of luck all made the difference. He left after that but sent an evemail saying he has absolutely no idea how I did it 🙂
 
I heard that nos was the way to go with the bigger ships though. 😉

Of course there are a great many ways to outfit a ship for different occasions. Each fittings have their strengths and weaknesses which encourages dymanic group setups. There is most definately not an "I win" button or ship, which is where the balance is struck. I just like to see the added progression when I'm behind the console, basically. Even does not allow for this. If they would allow for the passive training, and an active training when you are logged in I could see it rekindling my interest again. I like to multi-task...but my targeting is only up to level 3. 😉
 
@TGS

You seem to understand, but also seem to be complaining about the same things you are praising 🙂

I know what you are getting at it can be a double edged sword. To go on holiday and not worry about losing out on not playing is great 🙂 Yet when I have to wait for a skill to finish it can be frustrating!

But at the end of the day what can they do? Give every new starter the skill to fly every ship and enough money to buy whatever they want?

In real life to achieve anything (as the old saying goes) you need time and money. It's the exact same in Eve and far more 'realistic' than you must kill 4000 rats to suddenly be able to wield a sledgehammer no? I think making money in Eve is easy, even with a new character, money is rarely the issue. Most people suffer by using only one method of making money (e.g. just missions, just mining, just trading, etc). keep you finger in as many pies as possible and it will roll in. Every time I dock I check the local market and buy low / sell high, get a few blueprints and make stuff to sell, of course loot and rewards come along from pvp and pve endeavours, at any one time I have like 6-7 different revenue streams... my wallet never stops flashing!!! Its just like a real business... sell only thing and you will be at the mercy of that market, sell 20 things and you will barely notice any dips in one or two markets.
 
Oh I agree, there are a great deal of ways to make money. For me I had ISK float my way via corps mates but I sent it back. I didn't need it, as I looked at the local markets and snapped up what was being sold cheap and either ran it to a profitable system or broke it down and sold the materials for a huge profit. Honestly I saw a great deal more profit in raw materials than anything else.

Though we are pretty much on par for most of the game. I found the merchant areas to be better suited to my tastes for getting money. The only time I ever really "needed" money was when I picked up my strip mining ship and a pair of strips to go with it. Though you need a much more mature account to completely turn around and head into 0.0 and be as effective of a figher pilot, than as a merchant. Though that could be seen as part of the fun, the road down both paths leads to the balanced character.
 
I always get a kick out of the can't compete with older players comments. We all know how the millions of skill points in Mining and Gallante ship skills makes you stronger against a new player when you are fighting him with your Caldari Battleship. meh
 
Originally posted by: Cander
I always get a kick out of the can't compete with older players comments. We all know how the millions of skill points in Mining and Gallante ship skills makes you stronger against a new player when you are fighting him with your Caldari Battleship. meh
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so the only skills that older players use are mining and gallente ship skills? no one uses gunnery or other skills that would affect combat?

i always get a kick out of people who make totally off the wall comments
 
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: Cander
I always get a kick out of the can't compete with older players comments. We all know how the millions of skill points in Mining and Gallante ship skills makes you stronger against a new player when you are fighting him with your Caldari Battleship. meh
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so the only skills that older players use are mining and gallente ship skills? no one uses gunnery or other skills that would affect combat?

i always get a kick out of people who make totally off the wall comments
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Let me help you out here since you obviously have a problem understanding. It doesn't matter how many skill points you have. New players often complain they can't catch up so they have no chance against older players. A significant portion of those points they have won't come into play against a newer player in a PvP situation and a new player can compete by specializing in a certain area.

You understand now?
 
Originally posted by: Seeruk
Originally posted by: Acanthus
If you want to play eve online, you more or less want to sign up a year before actually playing, because of their retarded skill system that hinders new players ability to do anything useful against players whove had accounts longer than you.
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Absolute bull.

Within a week you can be flying a cruiser, within 2 weeks you can be kitted out well enough to take out a battleship.

There are no skills that allow you to grow a brain though :0

Point in case, I usually do the PvP training of our new recruits. We don't teach them using easy methods... we go out and hit real targets (usually whoever we are at war with) and 2-3 newbie pilots can take out anything, one warb scrambling/webbing, one sensor dampening and target jamming, energy draining, and one doing the damage. It's easy and its effective. The only pre-requisites are the ability not to cry when losing a ship and having the ability to learn.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the greatest thing about eve is it filters out the ADD kiddies looking for the winzzz button brilliantly 😀
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QFFT! I've got a Thorax that'll hang with the battleships 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Cander
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: Cander
I always get a kick out of the can't compete with older players comments. We all know how the millions of skill points in Mining and Gallante ship skills makes you stronger against a new player when you are fighting him with your Caldari Battleship. meh
Click to expand...

so the only skills that older players use are mining and gallente ship skills? no one uses gunnery or other skills that would affect combat?

i always get a kick out of people who make totally off the wall comments
Click to expand...

Let me help you out here since you obviously have a problem understanding. It doesn't matter how many skill points you have. New players often complain they can't catch up so they have no chance against older players. A significant portion of those points they have won't come into play against a newer player in a PvP situation and a new player can compete by specializing in a certain area.

You understand now?
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nope. because you're assuming that all older players trained in stuff that wouldn't matter when i bet its not true. besides, even if they didn't, they would still be far up in training that would be able to get the way better equipment that a noob wouldn't be able to touch.
 
Hehe
One last point I just thought of RE: the travelling. One of the 'many' things you need to sort out early on is a good location. Someone near your agents, also near one of the mega trade-hub systems, somewhere only a few jumps from low sec space, and near an academy for skills. You find the right spot and you will barely travel at all. Thats why people and corporations get so defensive of their turf and thus why wars break out 🙂
 
Wow, their graphic update should be great. I think they are planning to upgrade the jpeg background with a higher resolution one. Should really improve the quality of the game.
 
Once you have a decent amount of standard combat skills, probably after 2-3 months, as long as you fit properly against you opponent (hopefully you know their setup somewhat via RECON), you can beat people easily. However, EVE is primarily a group PVP. Not many people go out and solo. It's always small gangs or fleet. Skill doesn't matter especially when you have like say 10 frigates versus a well-skilled player in a cruiser.
 
Originally posted by: Seeruk
Hehe
One last point I just thought of RE: the travelling. One of the 'many' things you need to sort out early on is a good location. Someone near your agents, also near one of the mega trade-hub systems, somewhere only a few jumps from low sec space, and near an academy for skills. You find the right spot and you will barely travel at all. Thats why people and corporations get so defensive of their turf and thus why wars break out 🙂
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I'm hanging out in Bereye 🙂 .7 space, but close enough to hubs, academies, and trips to lower sec space.


 
There was an eve players thread somewhere...

Seerr Taak is my main these days and corp is Very Special Circumstances [VSPEC]

My new pirate char is still under development and wishes to remain anonymous at this time 🙂 Yaaarrrrr
 
Originally posted by: nsafreak
Character name is Simon Monkoto. Signed up currently with AirHawk Enterprises a part of the ISS alliance.
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*wave*

I'm neutralizer in game, captain in the ISS Navy Task Force currently having fun in EC-P8R.
 
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