Europeans 'Consider US as Threat'...

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Czar
this thread is just awful, flame from begining to the end
the forum should have a higher standard, but no one cares it seems

If you want a higher standard, then maybe you should try to be an example. Acting condescending (from what I can tell) with the first reply and then replying with a 'take your head out of your ass' statement isn't exactly a shining example of 'higher standards'.

1. This thread is a repost and yes this is the first time I see someone post a repost of his own post
2. There is no wonder I got upset since the post I responded to was what is defined as flaming or trolling

1. Does it matter? If you didn't mean to act condescending, then I take it back.
2. If you are going to complain about the flaming, then perhaps you should have at least taken the moral 'high ground' and not flamed in response to his 'post'. It certainly doesn't look good.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Czar
this thread is just awful, flame from begining to the end
the forum should have a higher standard, but no one cares it seems

If you want a higher standard, then maybe you should try to be an example. Acting condescending (from what I can tell) with the first reply and then replying with a 'take your head out of your ass' statement isn't exactly a shining example of 'higher standards'.

1. This thread is a repost and yes this is the first time I see someone post a repost of his own post
2. There is no wonder I got upset since the post I responded to was what is defined as flaming or trolling

To me it seems that his first post is Europe vs. Israel and this post is Europe vs. US

Do you actually get upset over what people on the Internet say? You're a very sensitive guy.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Czar
this thread is just awful, flame from begining to the end
the forum should have a higher standard, but no one cares it seems

If you want a higher standard, then maybe you should try to be an example. Acting condescending (from what I can tell) with the first reply and then replying with a 'take your head out of your ass' statement isn't exactly a shining example of 'higher standards'.

1. This thread is a repost and yes this is the first time I see someone post a repost of his own post
2. There is no wonder I got upset since the post I responded to was what is defined as flaming or trolling

To me it seems that his first post is Europe vs. Israel and this post is Europe vs. US

Do you actually get upset over what people on the Internet say? You're a very sensitive guy.

the content is the same, it is about a poll in the EU that showed Israel nr1 and US nr2

I have been here for a long time and enjoy talking and reading about politics here and it is anoying to see the forum in its current state, go back a few years and probably 1/3 of the people who posted in P&N for the last week would have been given a weeks vacation, that is what upsets me

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Czar
this thread is just awful, flame from begining to the end
the forum should have a higher standard, but no one cares it seems

If you want a higher standard, then maybe you should try to be an example. Acting condescending (from what I can tell) with the first reply and then replying with a 'take your head out of your ass' statement isn't exactly a shining example of 'higher standards'.

1. This thread is a repost and yes this is the first time I see someone post a repost of his own post
2. There is no wonder I got upset since the post I responded to was what is defined as flaming or trolling

To me it seems that his first post is Europe vs. Israel and this post is Europe vs. US

Do you actually get upset over what people on the Internet say? You're a very sensitive guy.

the content is the same, it is about a poll in the EU that showed Israel nr1 and US nr2

I have been here for a long time and enjoy talking and reading about politics here and it is anoying to see the forum in its current state, go back a few years and probably 1/3 of the people who posted in P&N for the last week would have been given a weeks vacation, that is what upsets me

I fail to see how the content is the same. The first post is about Israel and the article only mentions the US once when it listed the countries. This second article and especially this thread is more about US-Europe relations than the poll.

You should apologize to the poster. It will set a good example, too. Perhaps you are an important factor in your own annoyance.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Czar
this thread is just awful, flame from begining to the end
the forum should have a higher standard, but no one cares it seems

If you want a higher standard, then maybe you should try to be an example. Acting condescending (from what I can tell) with the first reply and then replying with a 'take your head out of your ass' statement isn't exactly a shining example of 'higher standards'.

1. This thread is a repost and yes this is the first time I see someone post a repost of his own post
2. There is no wonder I got upset since the post I responded to was what is defined as flaming or trolling

To me it seems that his first post is Europe vs. Israel and this post is Europe vs. US

Do you actually get upset over what people on the Internet say? You're a very sensitive guy.

the content is the same, it is about a poll in the EU that showed Israel nr1 and US nr2

I have been here for a long time and enjoy talking and reading about politics here and it is anoying to see the forum in its current state, go back a few years and probably 1/3 of the people who posted in P&N for the last week would have been given a weeks vacation, that is what upsets me

I fail to see how the content is the same. The first post is about Israel and the article only mentions the US once when it listed the countries. This second article and especially this thread is more about US-Europe relations than the poll.

You should apologize to the poster. It will set a good example, too. Perhaps you are an important factor in your own annoyance.

I see the content as the same, and if posting repost is offensive to you then I realy think you are the sensitive one. If I were flaming him for no reason then I would see no reason not to appologize, but in this case it realy is not appropriate since that would involve me appologizing to Insane3d just now because he posted a repost.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Czar
this thread is just awful, flame from begining to the end
the forum should have a higher standard, but no one cares it seems

If you want a higher standard, then maybe you should try to be an example. Acting condescending (from what I can tell) with the first reply and then replying with a 'take your head out of your ass' statement isn't exactly a shining example of 'higher standards'.

1. This thread is a repost and yes this is the first time I see someone post a repost of his own post
2. There is no wonder I got upset since the post I responded to was what is defined as flaming or trolling

To me it seems that his first post is Europe vs. Israel and this post is Europe vs. US

Do you actually get upset over what people on the Internet say? You're a very sensitive guy.

the content is the same, it is about a poll in the EU that showed Israel nr1 and US nr2

I have been here for a long time and enjoy talking and reading about politics here and it is anoying to see the forum in its current state, go back a few years and probably 1/3 of the people who posted in P&N for the last week would have been given a weeks vacation, that is what upsets me

I fail to see how the content is the same. The first post is about Israel and the article only mentions the US once when it listed the countries. This second article and especially this thread is more about US-Europe relations than the poll.

You should apologize to the poster. It will set a good example, too. Perhaps you are an important factor in your own annoyance.

I see the content as the same, and if posting repost is offensive to you then I realy think you are the sensitive one. If I were flaming him for no reason then I would see no reason not to appologize, but in this case it realy is not appropriate since that would involve me appologizing to Insane3d just now because he posted a repost.

Calm down, I guess I set off a nerve since I never said it was offensive to me. I'm sorry, I didn't know you were so touchy over this subject. I just suggested that you take responsibility and apologize, not a big deal.

I really think that the articles are different though and thus the threads took on different directions. Otherwise the original poster wouldn't have posted it. I think it was pretty rude of you to post that.

 

[Czar]

I'm actually pretty relaxed now just woke up, listening to music, working on a project . The thing is that I see nothing to apologize for. And how come it wasnt offensive to you but at the same time rude?

 

[glenn1]

It's not one side being at fault (although being American, you may not understand this, as anyone who disagrees with Bush/America seems to be the enemy)

I don't and wouldn't have a problem with a poll showing that xx % of Europeans think the U.S. is wrong on policy or strategy. That's a far cry from saying the U.S. is one of the gravest threats to world peace and stability. That's simply childish and stupid.

So for the Europeans here, let me see if i can put it into a slightly different context to help perhaps further clarify what your POV is. Do you consider the "Just War" theory to be valid? If you don't, then perhaps I can get where you're coming from. I strongly disagree with it, but understand. That's the sort of thinking that in the name of "stability" wouldn't have challenged genocide in the former Yugoslavia, won't make a moral stand for the free peoples of any oppressed country, and wouldn't have allowed for a pre-emptive move against Hitler. It's an utterly abhorrent and morally bankrupt POV, but it does have a single "virtue" of being intellectually consistent i suppose.

 

[Nikilo]

Go away troll

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: glenn1

It's not one side being at fault (although being American, you may not understand this, as anyone who disagrees with Bush/America seems to be the enemy)

I don't and wouldn't have a problem with a poll showing that xx % of Europeans think the U.S. is wrong on policy or strategy. That's a far cry from saying the U.S. is one of the gravest threats to world peace and stability. That's simply childish and stupid.

So for the Europeans here, let me see if i can put it into a slightly different context to help perhaps further clarify what your POV is. Do you consider the "Just War" theory to be valid? If you don't, then perhaps I can get where you're coming from. I strongly disagree with it, but understand. That's the sort of thinking that in the name of "stability" wouldn't have challenged genocide in the former Yugoslavia, won't make a moral stand for the free peoples of any oppressed country, and wouldn't have allowed for a pre-emptive move against Hitler. It's an utterly abhorrent and morally bankrupt POV, but it does have a single "virtue" of being intellectually consistent i suppose.

nope, I don't have problems with the "Just War" theory but your policiymakers have to be consistent. The US wants to camouflage the Iraq conflict as some holy crusade against tyranic regimes. Let me tell you something. Probably half of the countries around the world have no democracy. Most of these countries have a leader who is as big an ass as Saddam was. I don't see the US acting against these countries. Don't give me the bs of the "we bring freedom and democracy" theory.

The US (and European leaders) never gave a sh*t about the African killing fields because most of these regions are not of the greatest strategic importance for us. the US and Europe have a great tradition of supporting ruthless regimes (Mobutu, Pinochet, Sjah, Saoudi-Arabia, ...) as long as they are with us and we can exploit them. OUR POLTICIANS DON'T GIVE A SH*T ABOUT THE ORDINARY PEOPLE LIVING THERE. I don't see the US acting against China. Instead they get a nice trade agreement (the same goes for the EU). So please spare me the bs of the "just war". The US will do its best to install a puppet regime in Iraq. I can't wait until there are elections in Iraq. I want to see what the US is going to do when the Iraqi people vote for Islam parties.

And about Yugoslavia, don't forget that it took the US 7 years to intervene. It seems to me that they were not interested for 6 years in the massacres.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: privatebreyer
Oh please do tell.

These boards are seriously lacking in the comedy department.

You're behind your own "iron curtain" given how much you know about your own government's actions thoughout the world over the past hundred years. Buy some history book, pref. not made in America.


Here is a historical example in today's paper:

The war that never went away

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: glenn1

It's not one side being at fault (although being American, you may not understand this, as anyone who disagrees with Bush/America seems to be the enemy)

I don't and wouldn't have a problem with a poll showing that xx % of Europeans think the U.S. is wrong on policy or strategy. That's a far cry from saying the U.S. is one of the gravest threats to world peace and stability. That's simply childish and stupid.

No, its an absolute fact, and has been for fifty years.

 

[glenn1]

nope, I don't have problems with the "Just War" theory but your policiymakers have to be consistent. The US wants to camouflage the Iraq conflict as some holy crusade against tyranic regimes. Let me tell you something. Probably half of the countries around the world have no democracy. Most of these countries have a leader who is as big an ass as Saddam was. I don't see the US acting against these countries. Don't give me the bs of the "we bring freedom and democracy" theory.

Hey, join the parade on that one. I agree completely, and have been talking about the need to spend far more attention to the needs and aspirations of the continent of Africa as a matter of principle for the longest time on these boards. And most of the time the only response i hear is the chirping of crickets, so that gives you an idea about how most of the members hear feel about the matter. But making the legitimate complaint that the Western world has been very selective in applying its principles is a far cry from saying the U.S. is the second greatest threat to world peace.

 

[glenn1]

d/p, sorry

 

[privatebreyer]

Indeed. Even as a superpower, you have to pick you battles. Without a doubt, the US could do a lot more intervening, if the will was there. Leader choose were to expend the will they have. I hope that our mission to create prosparity and democracy in Iraq is successful, and that that success encorages people in other nations to make similar changes in there countrys (SA and Iran for example). The US public doesn't have the will to invade and occupy the entire ME, even after 9-11. The case could however be made for Iraq, and with luck sucess in Iraq will make intervening elsewhere unneccicery.

As far as the EU is conserned, no one ever said they couldn't take on missions around the world. In fact its encouraged. No sir, there has never been "No blood for Diamonds" protest in US streets over a French peacekeeping mission in Africa. And there wouldn't be either.

 

[prometheusxls]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: glenn1

It's not one side being at fault (although being American, you may not understand this, as anyone who disagrees with Bush/America seems to be the enemy)

I don't and wouldn't have a problem with a poll showing that xx % of Europeans think the U.S. is wrong on policy or strategy. That's a far cry from saying the U.S. is one of the gravest threats to world peace and stability. That's simply childish and stupid.

So for the Europeans here, let me see if i can put it into a slightly different context to help perhaps further clarify what your POV is. Do you consider the "Just War" theory to be valid? If you don't, then perhaps I can get where you're coming from. I strongly disagree with it, but understand. That's the sort of thinking that in the name of "stability" wouldn't have challenged genocide in the former Yugoslavia, won't make a moral stand for the free peoples of any oppressed country, and wouldn't have allowed for a pre-emptive move against Hitler. It's an utterly abhorrent and morally bankrupt POV, but it does have a single "virtue" of being intellectually consistent i suppose.

nope, I don't have problems with the "Just War" theory but your policiymakers have to be consistent. The US wants to camouflage the Iraq conflict as some holy crusade against tyranic regimes. Let me tell you something. Probably half of the countries around the world have no democracy. Most of these countries have a leader who is as big an ass as Saddam was. I don't see the US acting against these countries. Don't give me the bs of the "we bring freedom and democracy" theory.

The US (and European leaders) never gave a sh*t about the African killing fields because most of these regions are not of the greatest strategic importance for us. the US and Europe have a great tradition of supporting ruthless regimes (Mobutu, Pinochet, Sjah, Saoudi-Arabia, ...) as long as they are with us and we can exploit them. OUR POLTICIANS DON'T GIVE A SH*T ABOUT THE ORDINARY PEOPLE LIVING THERE. I don't see the US acting against China. Instead they get a nice trade agreement (the same goes for the EU). So please spare me the bs of the "just war". The US will do its best to install a puppet regime in Iraq. I can't wait until there are elections in Iraq. I want to see what the US is going to do when the Iraqi people vote for Islam parties.

And about Yugoslavia, don't forget that it took the US 7 years to intervene. It seems to me that they were not interested for 6 years in the massacres.

As an American I am very disapointed in the level of transatlantic bickering I am seeing lately. Americans have to realize that something like 90% of our itelectual heritage, math, science, litterature, etc... comes from European or Arab countires. The statistics I am familiar with say that we spend more on our military than all european nations combined. Given that I definately see how many europeans could consider the US to be a large threat to world peace over all. I think the wolrd is a safer place today than before 9/11/2001. And as other threats are taken out the indemic threat of excessive military spending becomes relatively more visible. I don't think that the average american understands that.

With regauard to various asertations of childishness among people here I only wish to point out that children take action wihtout thinking while adults consider the consequences and ramifications before taking measured actions. With regard to Iraq, I think we were foolish to get involved there directly and we ought to pay for that mistake. EU and other leading world countries of course should offer assistance to the Iraqi people, as a humanitarian measure. But they don't "owe us for protecting (the wolrd/them) from Sadam". Our actions in that snese were much more childish than those supported by the EU / UN. Sadam wasn't an iminent threat to anyone (besides the Iraqui people). This is all IMHO of course, but I think it is at least an informed opinion.

 

[privatebreyer]

Originally posted by: prometheusxls

As an American I am very disapointed in the level of transatlantic bickering I am seeing lately. Americans have to realize that something like 90% of our itelectual heritage, math, science, litterature, etc... comes from European or Arab countires. The statistics I am familiar with say that we spend more on our military than all european nations combined. Given that I definately see how many europeans could consider the US to be a large threat to world peace over all. I think the wolrd is a safer place today than before 9/11/2001. And as other threats are taken out the indemic threat of excessive military spending becomes relatively more visible. I don't think that the average american understands that.

With regauard to various asertations of childishness among people here I only wish to point out that children take action wihtout thinking while adults consider the consequences and ramifications before taking measured actions. With regard to Iraq, I think we were foolish to get involved there directly and we ought to pay for that mistake. EU and other leading world countries of course should offer assistance to the Iraqi people, as a humanitarian measure. But they don't "owe us for protecting (the wolrd/them) from Sadam". Our actions in that snese were much more childish than those supported by the EU / UN. Sadam wasn't an iminent threat to anyone (besides the Iraqui people). This is all IMHO of course, but I think it is at least an informed opinion.

The thing people forget however, is that while the US may act with war, the goal is long term peace. We went to Afganistan not only to oust the Tablian, but to bring peace to the country after a quater century of war. We went to Iraq because above all else because of a mistrust of Saddam, because leaving him around was bound to cause nothing but trouble.

Yeah, we may cause war, but to make sure its the last war in any particular area. Beleive it or not war is not the worst of all things.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: prometheusxls

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: glenn1

It's not one side being at fault (although being American, you may not understand this, as anyone who disagrees with Bush/America seems to be the enemy)

I don't and wouldn't have a problem with a poll showing that xx % of Europeans think the U.S. is wrong on policy or strategy. That's a far cry from saying the U.S. is one of the gravest threats to world peace and stability. That's simply childish and stupid.

So for the Europeans here, let me see if i can put it into a slightly different context to help perhaps further clarify what your POV is. Do you consider the "Just War" theory to be valid? If you don't, then perhaps I can get where you're coming from. I strongly disagree with it, but understand. That's the sort of thinking that in the name of "stability" wouldn't have challenged genocide in the former Yugoslavia, won't make a moral stand for the free peoples of any oppressed country, and wouldn't have allowed for a pre-emptive move against Hitler. It's an utterly abhorrent and morally bankrupt POV, but it does have a single "virtue" of being intellectually consistent i suppose.

nope, I don't have problems with the "Just War" theory but your policiymakers have to be consistent. The US wants to camouflage the Iraq conflict as some holy crusade against tyranic regimes. Let me tell you something. Probably half of the countries around the world have no democracy. Most of these countries have a leader who is as big an ass as Saddam was. I don't see the US acting against these countries. Don't give me the bs of the "we bring freedom and democracy" theory.

The US (and European leaders) never gave a sh*t about the African killing fields because most of these regions are not of the greatest strategic importance for us. the US and Europe have a great tradition of supporting ruthless regimes (Mobutu, Pinochet, Sjah, Saoudi-Arabia, ...) as long as they are with us and we can exploit them. OUR POLTICIANS DON'T GIVE A SH*T ABOUT THE ORDINARY PEOPLE LIVING THERE. I don't see the US acting against China. Instead they get a nice trade agreement (the same goes for the EU). So please spare me the bs of the "just war". The US will do its best to install a puppet regime in Iraq. I can't wait until there are elections in Iraq. I want to see what the US is going to do when the Iraqi people vote for Islam parties.

And about Yugoslavia, don't forget that it took the US 7 years to intervene. It seems to me that they were not interested for 6 years in the massacres.

As an American I am very disapointed in the level of transatlantic bickering I am seeing lately. Americans have to realize that something like 90% of our itelectual heritage, math, science, litterature, etc... comes from European or Arab countires. The statistics I am familiar with say that we spend more on our military than all european nations combined. Given that I definately see how many europeans could consider the US to be a large threat to world peace over all. I think the wolrd is a safer place today than before 9/11/2001. And as other threats are taken out the indemic threat of excessive military spending becomes relatively more visible. I don't think that the average american understands that.

With regauard to various asertations of childishness among people here I only wish to point out that children take action wihtout thinking while adults consider the consequences and ramifications before taking measured actions. With regard to Iraq, I think we were foolish to get involved there directly and we ought to pay for that mistake. EU and other leading world countries of course should offer assistance to the Iraqi people, as a humanitarian measure. But they don't "owe us for protecting (the wolrd/them) from Sadam". Our actions in that snese were much more childish than those supported by the EU / UN. Sadam wasn't an iminent threat to anyone (besides the Iraqui people). This is all IMHO of course, but I think it is at least an informed opinion.

The US is a pretty diverse country and its heritage comes from all over the world, not only Europe or Arab countries. I don't think we owe them anything anymore for stuff they came up with 1000 years ago.

It's good that we spend so much on our military. Military spending fuels technological innovation, and that's why the US is the leading innovator in the world. It's sad that it does, but that's how the world works.

 

[privatebreyer]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: privatebreyer
Oh please do tell.

These boards are seriously lacking in the comedy department.

You're behind your own "iron curtain" given how much you know about your own government's actions thoughout the world over the past hundred years. Buy some history book, pref. not made in America.


Here is a historical example in today's paper:

The war that never went away

Yes, I wonder why noone makes a documentary on the atrocities commited by NK.

If not for those so called atrocitys, I might not be here right now.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: privatebreyer
Oh please do tell.

These boards are seriously lacking in the comedy department.

You're behind your own "iron curtain" given how much you know about your own government's actions thoughout the world over the past hundred years. Buy some history book, pref. not made in America.


Here is a historical example in today's paper:

The war that never went away

The US has done some bad things, but it's nothing in comparison to what European countries have done to the world. We can nuke the world 5 times over and it's still nothing compared to them! OK, that's an exaggeration!

 

[hagbard]

Yet another example of why:

Critics condemn U.S. torture by proxy

 

[VioletAura]

Originally posted by: hagbard
Yet another example of why:

Critics condemn U.S. torture by proxy

In the 1990s, Washington reportedly began a covert practice of "rendition," using governments in Nigeria, the Philippines, Kenya and South Africa. After Sept. 11, the number of people shipped to offshore locations to extract information by means that are banned in the U.S. appears to have increased, although the secrecy surrounding the practice has prevented rights organizations from monitoring exact figures.

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: glenn1

It's not one side being at fault (although being American, you may not understand this, as anyone who disagrees with Bush/America seems to be the enemy)

I don't and wouldn't have a problem with a poll showing that xx % of Europeans think the U.S. is wrong on policy or strategy. That's a far cry from saying the U.S. is one of the gravest threats to world peace and stability. That's simply childish and stupid.

No, its an absolute fact, and has been for fifty years.

So what about the Soviet Union, the millions of citizens killed or shipped off to the camps? The threat of nuclear annihilation that existed during the cold war? State communism and the misery it caused? Are you saying all of those are significant compared to whatever the US has done during the same timespan? I'm frankly surprised that this world even survived the 20th century without all-out nuclear war. I'm Canadian and I think you just hate americans. Sort of like those anti-car people, they don't care they just hate the car and everything it stands for.

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: glenn1
Europe needs to grow the f*ck up and stop acting like a bratty toddler. When they grow some balls and an army they can come sit at the grownups table.

Hey Europe, we need friends at our side when you think we're wrong, not just when you think we're right. You're pissing away your shot at having a meaningful impact on U.S. policy if you continue this foolishness and outright bigotry. Israel ahead of North Korea? You need to pull your head out of your ass.

the world does not revolve around the US, when you understand remove head from ass

maybe you'll remove your head from your ass when you realize that others aren't wrong because you think your right oh, the US must be wrong because the EU disagrees thats logic for ya.

just remember top french pacifists met with hitler for talks before france went down. some don't learn lessons

who built iraqs nuclear reactor? ah yes.. france so niave. and it goes on and on...

Has N Korea or Iran invaded anyone recently?

how about weapons technology proliferation, funding its operations through drugs and other illegal activities.. threatening to turn seoul into a sea of fire.. building nukes. your little inspectors aren't going to stop sh*t.

That certainly is a major problem. As far as this particular European view is concerned, I was just trying to point out as to why they may feel this way about the US and Israel. Even the US and especially Israel have caused a great deal of weapon proliferation to less than ideal nations, so that arguement isn't really unique to N Korea. The biggest difference, as I see it, is that N Korea makes a lot of threats, but takes no action, OTOH, both the US(specifically with Iraq) and Israel take actions that seem to destabilize.

Naval battles between South and North Korea happen every once in a while.

Personally I'm wary of any European actions. They've done way too much harm in this world compared to anyone else, even all the crap the U.S. has done. I'm glad that they've dwindled down to insignificance.

The only harm we have done is that we created you.

 

[sandorski]

Come on guys, this bashing is getting ridiculous.