European support for a war in Iraq overrated

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: SnapITGet this you arrogant little fool, IF the us goes to war without UN support, that sets a new standard, suddenly any nation can do as they please based on a hunch... what is stopping china from invading Taiwan after this, has Taiwan proven that they do NOT have WMD?

From the way things have been progressing the last week I would say it's unlikely the US will need to go in without UN support as it's simply a matter of time before they get it.

Anyway, what would stop China from invading Taiwan in that situation is what stops them from invading Taiwan NOW.. which is fear of US intervention.. which would happen whether it was under the UN banner or not (as the US has committed to protecting Taiwan).

Nations could do as they please? Well, perhaps, but only if the US doesn't take issue with it.

This is not arrogance. It's reality. The biggest gun rules the block.
It probably is NOT a good thing and we were probably better of with parity in the balance of power before the collapse of the USSR.
However, had the USSR won the cold war they would be weilding THIER heavy hand to further thier interests.
And if, or when, China passes the US as world superpower (the EU has no shot imho... too fractured) do you not think they will throw thier weight around?

The old saying 'might does not equal right'. Well, in a fair and just world that statement is 100% correct.
However, look around, do we live in either a fair OR just world?
Might might not equal right but might equals control.
If Germany would have won WWII would history view the Nazis the same way as they do now?

Unfortunately the history of the world is nations warring each other. As Plato said 'Only the dead have seen the end of war'.
It's unfortunate. I agree. Write your local goverment representative and walk back in forth on the street with a colourful sign till things change. Good luck with that. 🙂

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Jimbo

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Jimbo

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Jimbo
The US had fool proof evidence before, remember the aluminum cylinders? Everyone with half a brain tore that proof apart in half a minute....

If I recall, it turned out they were to be used in rocket motors.

Hey! That would be a violation TOO!

No it would not... *laughs and points at the fool*

I will assume that you and zayened are both looking in a mirror because the development and production of long range rocketry is SPECIFICALLY prohibited for Iraq.

You are an idiot, idiot, idiot, you are an idiot ladidadidaaaaa... *sings and dances around the fool*

Tell that to Hans Blix. He specifically brought it up during his UN report. Besides, if it was so innocent, why were the parts mislabel and shipped via Jordan by South Africa?

The cylinders were ordered with exact measurements, those measurements were not ideal for uranium enrichment, still the US wanted to make people believe that that was why they were ordered... (an argument Bush took to the UN and got ridiculed)

Oh, and Blix has brought up several things in his report, no WMD's though...

 

[zayened]

Originally posted by: LH
Also you guys are dumbasses.

This isnt just US intellegence its UK intellegence.

When the US and UK show their intellegence, soon, will you guys SHUT THE FVCK UP. Every political person thats seen it(republican, democrat, socialist), has said its damning of Saddam.

yes, when america tells the uk to jump, the uk asks how high. also, read one of the posts above that has a link showing that indeed NOT all of the politicians are convinced that it is the damning of saddam

 

[B00ne]

so damnation of Saddam obviously justifies illegal Invasion of a country and the killing countless of woman, children and men - yeah thank u for bringing the real ethics to the world


this thread is too fast - I should quote...

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: SnapITGet this you arrogant little fool, IF the us goes to war without UN support, that sets a new standard, suddenly any nation can do as they please based on a hunch... what is stopping china from invading Taiwan after this, has Taiwan proven that they do NOT have WMD?

From the way things have been progressing the last week I would say it's unlikely the US will need to go in without UN support as it's simply a matter of time before they get it.

Anyway, what would stop China from invading Taiwan in that situation is what stops them from invading Taiwan NOW.. which is fear of US intervention.. which would happen whether it was under the UN banner or not (as the US has committed to protecting Taiwan).

Nations could do as they please? Well, perhaps, but only if the US doesn't take issue with it.

This is not arrogance. It's reality. The biggest gun rules the block.
It probably is NOT a good thing and we were probably better of with parity in the balance of power before the collapse of the USSR.
However, had the USSR won the cold war they would be weilding THIER heavy hand to further thier interests.
And if, or when, China passes the US as world superpower (the EU has no shot imho... too fractured) do you not think they will throw thier weight around?

The old saying 'might does not equal right'. Well, in a fair and just world that statement is 100% correct.
However, look around, do we live in either a fair OR just world?
Might might not equal right but might equals control.
If Germany would have won WWII would history view the Nazis the same way as they do now?

Unfortunately the history of the world is nations warring each other. As Plato said 'Only the dead have seen the end of war'.
It's unfortunate. I agree. Write your local goverment representative walk back in forth on the street with a colourful sign till things change. Good luck with that. 🙂

Your description of the US as a power in the world sounds so familiar... hmmm...

US, the new third reich? scary thought....

Let's hope that insanity will never get that far...

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: B00ne
so damnation of Saddam obviously justifies illegal Invasion of a country and the killing countless of woman, children and men - yeah thank u for bringing the real ethics to the world


this thread is too fast - I should quote...

I'm sure Germany has much to teach the world about the ethics of war.

 

[zayened]

Originally posted by: B00ne
so damnation of Saddam obviously justifies illegal Invasion of a country and the killing countless of woman, children and men - yeah thank u for bringing the real ethics to the world


this thread is too fast - I should quote...

read my response to the quote below by Yzzim 😉

Originally posted by: zayened

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: zayened

Originally posted by: Czar
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L30567527

BRITAIN

A YouGov poll for the Sunday Times on January 26 showed 68 percent of people thought Prime Minister Tony Blair had failed to convince them of the need for war with Iraq. Some 26 percent said they were convinced Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was dangerous enough to necessitate a war.


FRANCE

A CSA Institute poll published on January 23 showed 73 percent of French people were against a U.S.-led attack on Iraq, up from 66 percent in a similar poll two weeks earlier.


GERMANY

An opinion poll by Germany's Forsa institute published a week ago found 69 percent of Germans wanted the country to vote against any U.N. resolution mandating war against Iraq. An Emnid poll in Der Spiegel news magazine showed 72 percent of Germans were against their troops joining any war.


SPAIN

A January poll by right-of-centre newspaper El Mundo found 80 percent of Spaniards opposed the U.S. stance towards war in Iraq while another by a radio station in the same month showed only 6.6 percent thought there were reasons to go to war. No official poll has been carried out since September, when two thirds of Spaniards opposed a war.


ITALY

A poll by Swg published on January 29 showed 72.7 percent of Italians disagreed with a U.S.-led preventative war against Iraq while 18.8 percent said they would support such action.


DENMARK

A Vilstrup Research poll published on January 25 showed 79 percent of Danes would oppose a U.S.-led war without a U.N. mandate while 57 percent would still oppose a war if there was a U.N. mandate.


CZECH REPUBLIC

A poll by the publicly-funded CVVM agency in the Czech Republic on Thursday showed 67 percent were against a war with Iraq and 24 percent of respondents were in favour. The support total falls to 13 percent without a second U.N. resolution while the percentage against the war rises to 76 percent.


HUNGARY

A Gallup poll published on January 27 showed 82 percent of Hungarians opposed military action under any circumstances. The remaining 18 percent said they would support a war but of those, two thirds said that support would be conditional on U.N. approval.


POLAND

A TNS-OBOP survey showed 63 percent of Poles opposed sending troops to join any action against Iraq but 52 percent thought the country should give political backing to the United States for any such action.


PORTUGAL

No official polls were available but an informal survey by Diario Digital showed opinion running almost two to one against Portugal supporting any U.S.-led action.

thats cuz their media doesnt feed them bullshit

Did you have to quote him??

no i did't, but i had to make sure that people reading the thread knew what i was commenting about.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Jimbo

Originally posted by: B00ne
so damnation of Saddam obviously justifies illegal Invasion of a country and the killing countless of woman, children and men - yeah thank u for bringing the real ethics to the world


this thread is too fast - I should quote...

I'm sure Germany has much to teach the world about the ethics of war.

Woohoo finally out of arguments - so the inevitable " I have no clue but I just say something about WW2 to make me look good statement" gets pulled out of the bag.

Preach on idiot

 

[zayened]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: Jimbo

Originally posted by: B00ne
so damnation of Saddam obviously justifies illegal Invasion of a country and the killing countless of woman, children and men - yeah thank u for bringing the real ethics to the world


this thread is too fast - I should quote...

I'm sure Germany has much to teach the world about the ethics of war.

Woohoo finally out of arguments - so the inevitable " I have no clue but I just say something about WW2 to make me look good statement" gets pulled out of the bag.

Preach on idiot

FUNNY GUY

 

[zayened]

btw, anybody know what i am talking about with this whole FUNNY GUY thing?

 

[B00ne]

ummm no - U think I am funny? which would make u the only one here 😀

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: Jimbo

Originally posted by: B00ne
so damnation of Saddam obviously justifies illegal Invasion of a country and the killing countless of woman, children and men - yeah thank u for bringing the real ethics to the world


this thread is too fast - I should quote...

I'm sure Germany has much to teach the world about the ethics of war.

Woohoo finally out of arguments - so the inevitable " I have no clue but I just say something about WW2 to make me look good statement" gets pulled out of the bag.

Preach on idiot

Ditto.

 

[woolmilk]

(...) Did you have to quote him??

European relevance is overrated. Most of the fighting forces in Irak were american back in 1991 and so it would be this year. I think only England and France have the right of a veto at the UN. Its not surprising that the majority of the people is against a war. I'm pretty sure that a poll back in 1990 would have given the same results. BTW what is the current percentage of US citizen voting against the war?

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: Jimbo

Originally posted by: B00ne
so damnation of Saddam obviously justifies illegal Invasion of a country and the killing countless of woman, children and men - yeah thank u for bringing the real ethics to the world


this thread is too fast - I should quote...

I'm sure Germany has much to teach the world about the ethics of war.

Woohoo finally out of arguments - so the inevitable " I have no clue but I just say something about WW2 to make me look good statement" gets pulled out of the bag.

Preach on idiot

Who said anything about World War Two?
Moron.
Perhaps, I should have made that plural?

 

[zayened]

Originally posted by: Jimbo

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: Jimbo

Originally posted by: B00ne
so damnation of Saddam obviously justifies illegal Invasion of a country and the killing countless of woman, children and men - yeah thank u for bringing the real ethics to the world


this thread is too fast - I should quote...

I'm sure Germany has much to teach the world about the ethics of war.

Woohoo finally out of arguments - so the inevitable " I have no clue but I just say something about WW2 to make me look good statement" gets pulled out of the bag.

Preach on idiot

Who said anything about World War Two?
Moron.
Perhaps, I should have made that plural?

what else could your one-track mind possibly have been hinting towards when you said

Originally posted by: Jimbo
I'm sure Germany has much to teach the world about the ethics of war.

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: SnapITGet this you arrogant little fool, IF the us goes to war without UN support, that sets a new standard, suddenly any nation can do as they please based on a hunch... what is stopping china from invading Taiwan after this, has Taiwan proven that they do NOT have WMD?

From the way things have been progressing the last week I would say it's unlikely the US will need to go in without UN support as it's simply a matter of time before they get it.

Anyway, what would stop China from invading Taiwan in that situation is what stops them from invading Taiwan NOW.. which is fear of US intervention.. which would happen whether it was under the UN banner or not (as the US has committed to protecting Taiwan).

Nations could do as they please? Well, perhaps, but only if the US doesn't take issue with it.

This is not arrogance. It's reality. The biggest gun rules the block.
It probably is NOT a good thing and we were probably better of with parity in the balance of power before the collapse of the USSR.
However, had the USSR won the cold war they would be weilding THIER heavy hand to further thier interests.
And if, or when, China passes the US as world superpower (the EU has no shot imho... too fractured) do you not think they will throw thier weight around?

The old saying 'might does not equal right'. Well, in a fair and just world that statement is 100% correct.
However, look around, do we live in either a fair OR just world?
Might might not equal right but might equals control.
If Germany would have won WWII would history view the Nazis the same way as they do now?

Unfortunately the history of the world is nations warring each other. As Plato said 'Only the dead have seen the end of war'.
It's unfortunate. I agree. Write your local goverment representative walk back in forth on the street with a colourful sign till things change. Good luck with that. 🙂

Your description of the US as a power in the world sounds so familiar... hmmm...

US, the new third reich? scary thought....

Let's hope that insanity will never get that far...

Yes I imagine it is scary to those suspicious of American intentions.
If America were to decide to become a 'new third reich' with all the brutality that implies who could currently stop it (without resorting to nukes which ends us all pretty much)?
Currently, if you don't harbour Al Qaeda fugitive and/or training camps or are ruled by a psycho dictator sitting on chemical weapons (and lots of oil) then you probably don't have much to worry about from the US.
Probably.

Perhaps now you see why EU will NEVER be a power or have political clout to rival the US with thier current defence spending habits. It must increase MASSIVELY to have any hope.
And, of course, with such costly social programs in EU nations one wonders how they will be able to afford it. If the EU were to start spending the SAME amount on defense every year
as the US it would still take many years for the forces to catch up.

Like it or not military strength has ALWAYS been pretty much the #1 factor in international politics in terms of who gets thier way and who doesn't.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: SnapITThe cylinders were ordered with exact measurements, those measurements were not ideal for uranium enrichment, still the US wanted to make people believe that that was why they were ordered... (an argument Bush took to the UN and got ridiculed)

Oh, and Blix has brought up several things in his report, no WMD's though...

You still have not addressed what Iraq was doing with the BANNED rockets/rocketry research.

That is a Causes Beli and a material breech.

I'm going to bed, because I'm tired and nothing any of you post will make a hill of beans difference in about three weeks.
😀

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Jimbo

Originally posted by: SnapITThe cylinders were ordered with exact measurements, those measurements were not ideal for uranium enrichment, still the US wanted to make people believe that that was why they were ordered... (an argument Bush took to the UN and got ridiculed)

Oh, and Blix has brought up several things in his report, no WMD's though...

You still have not addressed what Iraq was doing with the BANNED rockets/rocketry research.

That is a Causes Beli and a material breech.

I'm going to bed, because I'm tired and nothing any of you post will make a hill of beans difference in about three weeks.
😀

You got us all beat. Nothing you post ever makes a difference now.

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: JimboCzar,
I think a better title for your thread would have been:

European relevance overrated

😀

And you wonder why people dont like americans.

Originally posted by: N8Magic
I'm sure the Iraqi people might want about 1/5 or so, seeing as people are giving away their oil.

OMG!! An american with a good attitude!!! Really rare these days.

 

[zayened]

Originally posted by: zayened
btw, anybody know what i am talking about with this whole FUNNY GUY thing?

come on guys, did nobody else see the movie xXx when the tijuanan drug lord is about to chop off xXx's nose? he called him FUNNY GUYYY

 

[blackhawk]

Unless you know the exact wording of a poll, you can interpret/skew the results to prove anything you want.

Its ALL in the question's wording & polls never state that, only imply a more general question was asked to support their findings.


You could design a question for americans that could give you the same results.


Anyway, citizens dont decide on international support, gov't leaders do, just like in '39,'40 and '41 with Roosevelt providing material support for the allies even though a huge majority of americans wanted nothing to do with a 'european' war.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: zayened

Originally posted by: zayened
btw, anybody know what i am talking about with this whole FUNNY GUY thing?

come on guys, did nobody else see the movie xXx when the tijuanan drug lord is about to chop off xXx's nose? he called him FUNNY GUYYY

I watched five minutes of it, then turned it off.

Vin Diesel is one of the worst actors I've ever seen.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: SnapITGet this you arrogant little fool, IF the us goes to war without UN support, that sets a new standard, suddenly any nation can do as they please based on a hunch... what is stopping china from invading Taiwan after this, has Taiwan proven that they do NOT have WMD?

From the way things have been progressing the last week I would say it's unlikely the US will need to go in without UN support as it's simply a matter of time before they get it.

Anyway, what would stop China from invading Taiwan in that situation is what stops them from invading Taiwan NOW.. which is fear of US intervention.. which would happen whether it was under the UN banner or not (as the US has committed to protecting Taiwan).

Nations could do as they please? Well, perhaps, but only if the US doesn't take issue with it.

This is not arrogance. It's reality. The biggest gun rules the block.
It probably is NOT a good thing and we were probably better of with parity in the balance of power before the collapse of the USSR.
However, had the USSR won the cold war they would be weilding THIER heavy hand to further thier interests.
And if, or when, China passes the US as world superpower (the EU has no shot imho... too fractured) do you not think they will throw thier weight around?

The old saying 'might does not equal right'. Well, in a fair and just world that statement is 100% correct.
However, look around, do we live in either a fair OR just world?
Might might not equal right but might equals control.
If Germany would have won WWII would history view the Nazis the same way as they do now?

Unfortunately the history of the world is nations warring each other. As Plato said 'Only the dead have seen the end of war'.
It's unfortunate. I agree. Write your local goverment representative walk back in forth on the street with a colourful sign till things change. Good luck with that. 🙂

Your description of the US as a power in the world sounds so familiar... hmmm...

US, the new third reich? scary thought....

Let's hope that insanity will never get that far...

Yes I imagine it is scary to those suspicious of American intentions.
If America were to decide to become a 'new third reich' with all the brutality that implies who could currently stop it (without resorting to nukes which ends us all pretty much)?
Currently, if you don't harbour Al Qaeda fugitive and/or training camps or are ruled by a psycho dictator sitting on chemical weapons (and lots of oil) then you probably don't have much to worry about from the US.
Probably.

Perhaps now you see why EU will NEVER be a power or have political clout to rival the US with thier current defence spending habits. It must increase MASSIVELY to have any hope.
And, of course, with such costly social programs in EU nations one wonders how they will be able to afford it. If the EU were to start spending the SAME amount on defense every year
as the US it would still take many years for the forces to catch up.

Like it or not military strength has ALWAYS been pretty much the #1 factor in international politics in terms of who gets thier way and who doesn't.

Like any nation that has grown too powerful, even the US will eventually fall...

 

[spaceman]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: SnapITGet this you arrogant little fool, IF the us goes to war without UN support, that sets a new standard, suddenly any nation can do as they please based on a hunch... what is stopping china from invading Taiwan after this, has Taiwan proven that they do NOT have WMD?

From the way things have been progressing the last week I would say it's unlikely the US will need to go in without UN support as it's simply a matter of time before they get it.

Anyway, what would stop China from invading Taiwan in that situation is what stops them from invading Taiwan NOW.. which is fear of US intervention.. which would happen whether it was under the UN banner or not (as the US has committed to protecting Taiwan).

Nations could do as they please? Well, perhaps, but only if the US doesn't take issue with it.

This is not arrogance. It's reality. The biggest gun rules the block.
It probably is NOT a good thing and we were probably better of with parity in the balance of power before the collapse of the USSR.
However, had the USSR won the cold war they would be weilding THIER heavy hand to further thier interests.
And if, or when, China passes the US as world superpower (the EU has no shot imho... too fractured) do you not think they will throw thier weight around?

The old saying 'might does not equal right'. Well, in a fair and just world that statement is 100% correct.
However, look around, do we live in either a fair OR just world?
Might might not equal right but might equals control.
If Germany would have won WWII would history view the Nazis the same way as they do now?

Unfortunately the history of the world is nations warring each other. As Plato said 'Only the dead have seen the end of war'.
It's unfortunate. I agree. Write your local goverment representative walk back in forth on the street with a colourful sign till things change. Good luck with that. 🙂

Your description of the US as a power in the world sounds so familiar... hmmm...

US, the new third reich? scary thought....

Let's hope that insanity will never get that far...

Yes I imagine it is scary to those suspicious of American intentions.
If America were to decide to become a 'new third reich' with all the brutality that implies who could currently stop it (without resorting to nukes which ends us all pretty much)?
Currently, if you don't harbour Al Qaeda fugitive and/or training camps or are ruled by a psycho dictator sitting on chemical weapons (and lots of oil) then you probably don't have much to worry about from the US.
Probably.

Perhaps now you see why EU will NEVER be a power or have political clout to rival the US with thier current defence spending habits. It must increase MASSIVELY to have any hope.
And, of course, with such costly social programs in EU nations one wonders how they will be able to afford it. If the EU were to start spending the SAME amount on defense every year
as the US it would still take many years for the forces to catch up.

Like it or not military strength has ALWAYS been pretty much the #1 factor in international politics in terms of who gets thier way and who doesn't.

Like any nation that has grown too powerful, even the US will eventually fall...

the difference being we can take the whole damn globe with us!😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: ncircle

the difference being we can take the whole damn globe with us!😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

Oh, joy.