Europe, the failure in the making

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Feel free to disagree, but I get the sense this is more than academic interest. Many of you guys WANT Europe to fail, you WANT Europe to be reduced to a bunch of irrelevant has-beens. You are salivating at the thought. My question is why do you care so much...is it because they are liberal? I don't understand the hate I suppose.

I DO want them to fail! They try to force their mumbo jumbo down OUR throats, and thats what bothers me. We, the United States, are a free, indepedent Republic. The European Nations through the Eu and UN want to force is to join into their little Socialist Paradise. Which is bullshit. They can do whatever they want, I dont care. But dont try to force it onto us!
But, since they DO want to force it onto us the only option for us is for failure of a United Europe.

In all fairness, I think we have done our fair share of not respecting their independence. In any case, no one is "forcing" anyone to do anything, they are simply exercising their sovereign right to tell us what they think, and to not help us if they don't want to.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, it's not enough to simply disagree with them, you're pissed because they won't act like our lap dogs. As far as international relations go, they are just a sovereign as we are, they have the same "rights" we do. And I don't see them overstepping those bounds, do you?

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Feel free to disagree, but I get the sense this is more than academic interest. Many of you guys WANT Europe to fail, you WANT Europe to be reduced to a bunch of irrelevant has-beens. You are salivating at the thought. My question is why do you care so much...is it because they are liberal? I don't understand the hate I suppose.

I DO want them to fail! They try to force their mumbo jumbo down OUR throats, and thats what bothers me. We, the United States, are a free, indepedent Republic. The European Nations through the Eu and UN want to force is to join into their little Socialist Paradise. Which is bullshit. They can do whatever they want, I dont care. But dont try to force it onto us!
But, since they DO want to force it onto us the only option for us is for failure of a United Europe.

In all fairness, I think we have done our fair share of not respecting their independence. In any case, no one is "forcing" anyone to do anything, they are simply exercising their sovereign right to tell us what they think, and to not help us if they don't want to.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, it's not enough to simply disagree with them, you're pissed because they won't act like our lap dogs. As far as international relations go, they are just a sovereign as we are, they have the same "rights" we do. And I don't see them overstepping those bounds, do you?

Congratualtions, you've somehow COMPLETELY missed what i said.
Let me summarize in little itty bitty words for you.
Europe wants unity. Unity goog.
Europe want America to do what Europe do. This bad.
If Europe gets unity they WILL push for America to do what Europe do. Again, this bad.
Only way to avoid adopting Europe policy and Socialist structurew is for united Europe to fail.

I dont give 2 rats asses about them being our "lapdog" as you say. Britian follows America around as a PARTNER, and a Level 1 partner at that. Not something given out lightly. In fact, I myself would FAR prefer the rest of Europe to just stay the Hell out of our business. Completely. But they cant, they have to keep meddling and poking their nose in it.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Feel free to disagree, but I get the sense this is more than academic interest. Many of you guys WANT Europe to fail, you WANT Europe to be reduced to a bunch of irrelevant has-beens. You are salivating at the thought. My question is why do you care so much...is it because they are liberal? I don't understand the hate I suppose.

I DO want them to fail! They try to force their mumbo jumbo down OUR throats, and thats what bothers me. We, the United States, are a free, indepedent Republic. The European Nations through the Eu and UN want to force is to join into their little Socialist Paradise. Which is bullshit. They can do whatever they want, I dont care. But dont try to force it onto us!
But, since they DO want to force it onto us the only option for us is for failure of a United Europe.

There's no force going the other way?

No, theres not.

Oh, I see.

Glad we could clear that up.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Feel free to disagree, but I get the sense this is more than academic interest. Many of you guys WANT Europe to fail, you WANT Europe to be reduced to a bunch of irrelevant has-beens. You are salivating at the thought. My question is why do you care so much...is it because they are liberal? I don't understand the hate I suppose.

I DO want them to fail! They try to force their mumbo jumbo down OUR throats, and thats what bothers me. We, the United States, are a free, indepedent Republic. The European Nations through the Eu and UN want to force is to join into their little Socialist Paradise. Which is bullshit. They can do whatever they want, I dont care. But dont try to force it onto us!
But, since they DO want to force it onto us the only option for us is for failure of a United Europe.

In all fairness, I think we have done our fair share of not respecting their independence. In any case, no one is "forcing" anyone to do anything, they are simply exercising their sovereign right to tell us what they think, and to not help us if they don't want to.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, it's not enough to simply disagree with them, you're pissed because they won't act like our lap dogs. As far as international relations go, they are just a sovereign as we are, they have the same "rights" we do. And I don't see them overstepping those bounds, do you?

Congratualtions, you've somehow COMPLETELY missed what i said.
Let me summarize in little itty bitty words for you.
Europe wants unity. Unity goog.
Europe want America to do what Europe do. This bad.
If Europe gets unity they WILL push for America to do what Europe do. Again, this bad.
Only way to avoid adopting Europe policy and Socialist structurew is for united Europe to fail.

I dont give 2 rats asses about them being our "lapdog" as you say. Britian follows America around as a PARTNER, and a Level 1 partner at that. Not something given out lightly. In fact, I myself would FAR prefer the rest of Europe to just stay the Hell out of our business. Completely. But they cant, they have to keep meddling and poking their nose in it.

Ridiculous. Europe must fail because? The US has no Nads? Europe has done nothing more than the US has done in regards to promoting their Ideas and Policies "onto" the other. It seems rather obvious that your beef with Europe has more to do with them not kow towing to every whim of the US, though I suspect deep down it's not the US, but Bush in your mind.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Ridiculous. Europe must fail because? The US has no Nads? Europe has done nothing more than the US has done in regards to promoting their Ideas and Policies "onto" the other. It seems rather obvious that your beef with Europe has more to do with them not kow towing to every whim of the US, though I suspect deep down it's not the US, but Bush in your mind.

Are you illiterate? Honestly?
I dont care about Europe doing what we want, in fact I prefer if they would stay out of our business.
I dont care about Europe doing what we want, in fact I prefer if they would stay out of our business.
I dont care about Europe doing what we want, in fact I prefer if they would stay out of our business.

Do you get the picture now?
My problem is with Europe trying to force its Socialist views on the US. Seeing as we dont HAVE a Socialist state, we cant very well force that view on them now can we?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski

Ridiculous. Europe must fail because? The US has no Nads? Europe has done nothing more than the US has done in regards to promoting their Ideas and Policies "onto" the other. It seems rather obvious that your beef with Europe has more to do with them not kow towing to every whim of the US, though I suspect deep down it's not the US, but Bush in your mind.

Are you illiterate? Honestly?
I dont care about Europe doing what we want, in fact I prefer if they would stay out of our business.
I dont care about Europe doing what we want, in fact I prefer if they would stay out of our business.
I dont care about Europe doing what we want, in fact I prefer if they would stay out of our business.

Do you get the picture now?
My problem is with Europe trying to force its Socialist views on the US. Seeing as we dont HAVE a Socialist state, we cant very well force that view on them now can we?

Repeat the line as much as you want, but perhaps you should read what you typed. How are they forcing their "socialist" views on you? By merely existing? I think your real fear is that you(America) might actually be wrong about some things and Europe might be right. Fearing change will get you nowhere.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Sensationalism Europe has been around long before the US and it will be quite fine in the coming years.

The United States of America is the oldest democracy (or is it republic?) in the world.

not quite

just one link I found
http://www.polamjournal.com/Library/APHistory/facts/facts.html

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Repeat the line as much as you want, but perhaps you should read what you typed. How are they forcing their "socialist" views on you? By merely existing? I think your real fear is that you(America) might actually be wrong about some things and Europe might be right. Fearing change will get you nowhere.

What gives Eupore the right to shred OUR Constitution? I dont believe they have ANY right trying to undermine our Constitution, and yet they do it daily. Thats really the root of my hatred for it all. They have NO RIGHT trying to change our republic which is defined by our Constitution.

But, you saying "they might be right" did give me a good chuckle. A tail between his legs Frenchie being right?
Only when their describing the best way to run like cowards.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski
Repeat the line as much as you want, but perhaps you should read what you typed. How are they forcing their "socialist" views on you? By merely existing? I think your real fear is that you(America) might actually be wrong about some things and Europe might be right. Fearing change will get you nowhere.

What gives Eupore the right to shred OUR Constitution? I dont believe they have ANY right trying to undermine our Constitution, and yet they do it daily. Thats really the root of my hatred for it all. They have NO RIGHT trying to change our republic which is defined by our Constitution.

But, you saying "they might be right" did give me a good chuckle. A tail between his legs Frenchie being right?
Only when their describing the best way to run like cowards.

When did the EU do that?
Because most Europeans didn't agree with the war in Iraq?

And the European nations aren't the ones that have been waging wars, secret and not so secret, against a variety of other nations due to their internal politics.

But I guess helping people like Pinochet to power was a good thing, did a whole lot of good for Chile, right?

Originally posted by: ntdz
Europe will never be totally unified. Those countries can never agree with each other, they are too arrogant and proud to do that.

I agree with the first part, you have the reason all wrong though IMO.
The European nations are simply too different to agree on many important issues, which is exactly why I oppose the EU in it's current form.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski
Repeat the line as much as you want, but perhaps you should read what you typed. How are they forcing their "socialist" views on you? By merely existing? I think your real fear is that you(America) might actually be wrong about some things and Europe might be right. Fearing change will get you nowhere.

What gives Eupore the right to shred OUR Constitution? I dont believe they have ANY right trying to undermine our Constitution, and yet they do it daily. Thats really the root of my hatred for it all. They have NO RIGHT trying to change our republic which is defined by our Constitution.

But, you saying "they might be right" did give me a good chuckle. A tail between his legs Frenchie being right?
Only when their describing the best way to run like cowards.

When did the EU do that?
Because most Europeans didn't agree with the war in Iraq?

Do you really think my entire argument is based on the Iraqi war? Good Lord man, that was favorable for us! Europe didnt want to join in, so we said fair enough and went it alone. It was perfect in the sense they said no, we said ok and went on with it and called it a done deal.
I'm referring to the EU (Or more correctly the UN, but there damned near one and the same really) trying to remove our Seconed Amendment because they think thats how it should be.
A pox on them for that, OUR Constitution is none of thier business, nor does it affect them in the slightest so why do they even care?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski
Repeat the line as much as you want, but perhaps you should read what you typed. How are they forcing their "socialist" views on you? By merely existing? I think your real fear is that you(America) might actually be wrong about some things and Europe might be right. Fearing change will get you nowhere.

What gives Eupore the right to shred OUR Constitution? I dont believe they have ANY right trying to undermine our Constitution, and yet they do it daily. Thats really the root of my hatred for it all. They have NO RIGHT trying to change our republic which is defined by our Constitution.

But, you saying "they might be right" did give me a good chuckle. A tail between his legs Frenchie being right?
Only when their describing the best way to run like cowards.

WTF are you talking about? Can you give 1 example of any of this "shredding" of the US Constitution or are you just parroting what you heard from some lunatic on the radio?

Get a grip or take your meds.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski
Repeat the line as much as you want, but perhaps you should read what you typed. How are they forcing their "socialist" views on you? By merely existing? I think your real fear is that you(America) might actually be wrong about some things and Europe might be right. Fearing change will get you nowhere.

What gives Eupore the right to shred OUR Constitution? I dont believe they have ANY right trying to undermine our Constitution, and yet they do it daily. Thats really the root of my hatred for it all. They have NO RIGHT trying to change our republic which is defined by our Constitution.

But, you saying "they might be right" did give me a good chuckle. A tail between his legs Frenchie being right?
Only when their describing the best way to run like cowards.

WTF are you talking about? Can you give 1 example of any of this "shredding" of the US Constitution or are you just parroting what you heard from some lunatic on the radio?

Get a grip or take your meds.

Ummm.....See previous post?
Might work on reading THEN posting, rather then the other way around

And whats wrong with parrotting, do you mean Rush lies?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski
Repeat the line as much as you want, but perhaps you should read what you typed. How are they forcing their "socialist" views on you? By merely existing? I think your real fear is that you(America) might actually be wrong about some things and Europe might be right. Fearing change will get you nowhere.

What gives Eupore the right to shred OUR Constitution? I dont believe they have ANY right trying to undermine our Constitution, and yet they do it daily. Thats really the root of my hatred for it all. They have NO RIGHT trying to change our republic which is defined by our Constitution.

But, you saying "they might be right" did give me a good chuckle. A tail between his legs Frenchie being right?
Only when their describing the best way to run like cowards.

WTF are you talking about? Can you give 1 example of any of this "shredding" of the US Constitution or are you just parroting what you heard from some lunatic on the radio?

Get a grip or take your meds.

Ummm.....See previous post?
Might work on reading THEN posting, rather then the other way around

And whats wrong with parrotting, do you mean Rush lies?

Ok, I see. Troll away then. :roll:

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Ok, I see. Troll away then. :roll:

Oh damn your dumb. I take it you have literacy problems of some type? I mean, I *clearly* stated "Read my previous post" and you obviously couldnt do it.
Deny it all you want, the EU (Or more directly the UN) DOES want to undermine our Constitution.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski
Ok, I see. Troll away then. :roll:

Oh damn your dumb. I take it you have literacy problems of some type? I mean, I *clearly* stated "Read my previous post" and you obviously couldnt do it.
Deny it all you want, the EU (Or more directly the UN) DOES want to undermine our Constitution.

OK you convinced me, I'm packing my bags

Does someone has a spare room for a Belgian dude with IT skills??

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski
Ok, I see. Troll away then. :roll:

Oh damn your dumb. I take it you have literacy problems of some type? I mean, I *clearly* stated "Read my previous post" and you obviously couldnt do it.
Deny it all you want, the EU (Or more directly the UN) DOES want to undermine our Constitution.

He asked for examples, didn't he? I haven't seen any.

 

[biostud]

-> specop

Europe is not doing anything to change what happens inside US borders. But when the problems occur outside US borders they have just as much right to influence how would should deal with those problems. Environment, trade, security policy are all global policy. And as all countries are part of global policy we need to solve these problems together, otherwise it will not work.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski
Ok, I see. Troll away then. :roll:

Oh damn your dumb. I take it you have literacy problems of some type? I mean, I *clearly* stated "Read my previous post" and you obviously couldnt do it.
Deny it all you want, the EU (Or more directly the UN) DOES want to undermine our Constitution.

He asked for examples, didn't he? I haven't seen any.

I'll give you an example. But not that other incredibly dense dumbass.

Article

Think its just an off the cuff article? Its not. It actually came up for debate, in fact I watched the debate. The main proponent for this was some crazy Communist Australian chick. The spokesman from America did a very fine job of putting her back in her place, but the point it they wanted to BLATANTLY disregard our Constitution and the Rights it affords us.
In fact, I might even be able to find the video from the debate if I dig around my hard drive if anyone is truly interested.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski
Ok, I see. Troll away then. :roll:

Oh damn your dumb. I take it you have literacy problems of some type? I mean, I *clearly* stated "Read my previous post" and you obviously couldnt do it.
Deny it all you want, the EU (Or more directly the UN) DOES want to undermine our Constitution.

Precisely how is the EU going to force us?

Your argument goes like this:

Statement: Europe is trying to take away our rights.
Reply: What evidence can you show of this
Statement: See prior statement.

The only substantial power in the world which is trying to remake others in it's image is the US. We are in no way compelled to do anything we do not like

Anyone can say anything they like. We say "no" End of discussion. Good lord, never become a parent if you think the EU can force anything on us. Your 3 year olds will "be forcing" you to do handsprings.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Precisely how is the EU going to force us?

Your argument goes like this:

Statement: Europe is trying to take away our rights.
Reply: What evidence can you show of this
Statement: See prior statement.

The only substantial power in the world which is trying to remake others in it's image is the US. We are in no way compelled to do anything we do not like

Anyone can say anything they like. We say "no" End of discussion. Good lord, never become a parent if you think the EU can force anything on us. Your 3 year olds will "be forcing" you to do handsprings.

Winston my man, I know YOUR not this dumb. Read my last few replies, I DID give an example. I think its on this page in fact.

*EDIT* I did, its the post right above yours!

Now to the "force us" they cant. BUT! If we get a liberal (Read: Kerry, CLinton, Hillary) kinda President who ALREADY wants to ban guns, and the UN gives them a little nudge you might as well get the Whiteout and remove the 2nd because it'll be gone for good.

 

[Cerb]

While what it says is somewhat true, I don't see the implosion.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski
Ok, I see. Troll away then. :roll:

Oh damn your dumb. I take it you have literacy problems of some type? I mean, I *clearly* stated "Read my previous post" and you obviously couldnt do it.
Deny it all you want, the EU (Or more directly the UN) DOES want to undermine our Constitution.

He asked for examples, didn't he? I haven't seen any.

I'll give you an example. But not that other incredibly dense dumbass.

Article

Think its just an off the cuff article? Its not. It actually came up for debate, in fact I watched the debate. The main proponent for this was some crazy Communist Australian chick. The spokesman from America did a very fine job of putting her back in her place, but the point it they wanted to BLATANTLY disregard our Constitution and the Rights it affords us.
In fact, I might even be able to find the video from the debate if I dig around my hard drive if anyone is truly interested.

If that is true, yes I agree, it's fvcked up, I definitely don't share your views on guns, but it's not my place, nor anyone else's but the citizens of the US to decide.

However, I don't exactly trust that article, it's not exactly written in an unbiased or even remotely professional manner, and searching Google for "united nations global ban on guns" yields almost nothing but relatively extremist pages, your link being the first.
The second link however was interesting, I don't know if that's what you're talking about, but it doesn't seem to be quite as bad as what you're trying to imply:
Statement of Philip Alpers, Gun Policy Researcher, United Nations
A few others further down:
"United Nations Attack On Gun Ownership" - www.posse-comitatus.org
"UNITED NATIONS GLOBAL COMMUNISM AGENDA" - www.alpinesurvival.com
"UN Wants Global Gun Ban [Free Republic]" - www.freerepublic.com

Seems like some people are blowing this way out of proportion, especially if what this Philip Alpers says is true:
"As you know, this is far from the truth. You know that this initiative is part of a United Nations initiative which began in Cairo in 1995.
You know that 138 member nations voted unanimously to give this process its mandate."
Which would imply that the US voted for this.
Would in turn makes sense, since it's not actually a "global ban on guns".

 

[Red Dawn]

The US does the same thing!

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: sandorski
Ok, I see. Troll away then. :roll:

Oh damn your dumb. I take it you have literacy problems of some type? I mean, I *clearly* stated "Read my previous post" and you obviously couldnt do it.
Deny it all you want, the EU (Or more directly the UN) DOES want to undermine our Constitution.

He asked for examples, didn't he? I haven't seen any.

I'll give you an example. But not that other incredibly dense dumbass.

Article

Think its just an off the cuff article? Its not. It actually came up for debate, in fact I watched the debate. The main proponent for this was some crazy Communist Australian chick. The spokesman from America did a very fine job of putting her back in her place, but the point it they wanted to BLATANTLY disregard our Constitution and the Rights it affords us.
In fact, I might even be able to find the video from the debate if I dig around my hard drive if anyone is truly interested.

If that is true, yes I agree, it's fvcked up, I definitely don't share your views on guns, but it's not my place, nor anyone else's but the citizens of the US to decide.

However, I don't exactly trust that article, it's not exactly written in an unbiased or even remotely professional manner, and searching Google for "united nations global ban on guns" yields almost nothing but relatively extremist pages, your link being the first.
The second link however was interesting, I don't know if that's what you're talking about, but it doesn't seem to be quite as bad as what you're trying to imply:
Statement of Philip Alpers, Gun Policy Researcher, United Nations
A few others further down:
"United Nations Attack On Gun Ownership" - www.posse-comitatus.org
"UNITED NATIONS GLOBAL COMMUNISM AGENDA" - www.alpinesurvival.com
"UN Wants Global Gun Ban [Free Republic]" - www.freerepublic.com

Seems like some people are blowing this way out of proportion, especially if what this Philip Alpers says is true:
"As you know, this is far from the truth. You know that this initiative is part of a United Nations initiative which began in Cairo in 1995.
You know that 138 member nations voted unanimously to give this process its mandate."
Which would imply that the US voted for this.
Would in turn makes sense, since it's not actually a "global ban on guns".

Trust me man, I watched the debate take place on video feed. It IS a global ban on guns, and it IS as bad as you would think. I'll have a copy soon so anyone who wants one I can get you one if your interested.
I may have to charge for international shipping however, although I will see if I can rip and host it.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The US does the same thing!

You maroon, thats NOT the same thing! Not even REMOTELY.
Show me where in ANY Constituion for ANY European country abortion is protected. Cant do it can you?
Now show me in OUR Consitution where gun ownership is protected....

See the difference?