Europe rules your ISP can't be forced to block pirate sites

[ShawnD1]

Is the government censoring free speech when it bans the importation of illegal drugs from other countries? Pot is legal in the Netherlands, what right does the US government have to stop you from getting some FedEx'ed back here?

Um yes? That's straight up 1984 right there. The government is telling you that you have no control of the contents of your own mind. I don't want to say all conservatives, but conservatives like you are the same ones who try to ban certain sex positions or make certain words illegal because it may offend someone.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You have your rights as long as they do nog take away others.

Taking without permission is theft.

 

[Zebo]

Forcing ISP to play cop without pay is taking away their rights.

 

[soulcougher73]

Its called personal responsibility. I thought conservatives were for that. You know..dont like it..dont look? Report people to the proper authorities. We cant police the internet but we can police the people in the US who are looking at things that are illegal in the US such as child porn.

 

[lord_emperor]

You have no problem with theft of property?:thumbsdown:

 

[EagleKeeper]

Where is the payment for services. Taking without rembursement.

Or are their other words exist that are not so harsh to your ears?

 

[Broheim]

Bullshit it is. You're the one claiming that you can't get what you want for free, so you are justified in taking it. Then you claim that when the government stops you from doing so, you're a victim of censorship.

Is the government censoring free speech when it bans the importation of illegal drugs from other countries? Pot is legal in the Netherlands, what right does the US government have to stop you from getting some FedEx'ed back here?

If you want to cry about not getting something for free that you feel is owed to you, go get a fucking tarp and join the children marching around in Zuccotti park.

I wasn't saying I was justified in taking shit, don't put words in my mouth, I was simply stating that the corporations are going about this the wrong way.

It would be censorship, there's nothing illegal about me visiting a site where I can pirate stuff, preventing me from doing so is censorship, it's that fucking easy.

I don't give a flying fuck about the US, I don't live there, what you can and can't do is your problem.

learn to read, because I didn't say I wanted something for free, I said that I'd pay if they'd make their product legally available to me. how does that equal wanting something for free?

 

[Howard]

Where is the payment for services. Taking without rembursement.

Or are their other words exist that are not so harsh to your ears?

How many people in this thread have been arguing that piracy was not wrong or illegal?

 

[ericlp]

Where is the payment for services. Taking without rembursement.

Or are their other words exist that are not so harsh to your ears?

You must be really YOUNG or SUPER OLD, that you just don't understand how much piracy has benefited all of us.

But that's NOT the fucking point. The point is, your going to be taking away rights and letting a record company or government determine what site stays up or what site get taken down. The internet should remain free. What are you gonna do ban everyone from newgroups, bit torrent, FTP shares, IRC, Gmail, Any type of email for that matter, Ebay, and tons and tons of other sites because a few people want to watch a movie or copy a song?

If you haven't noticed you are the only idiot that is supporting this. I say sell your computer and stop using the internet since you don't deserve to be on it. Heck if it wasn't for piracy the internet would not exist!

 

[EagleKeeper]

How many people in this thread have been arguing that piracy was not wrong or illegal?

How many others would admit to going into a store and shoplifting.
Taking something without permission is theft.

Would you complain if someone took out you harddrive because they wanted it.

How about working, your paycheck is for your services. Do you work for free?

 

[tommo123]

if someone took my harddrive - i'd have lost something. there is a difference. if people used a better analogy then these arguments wouldn't go around in circles like "it's theft" / "it's not theft"

 

[Engineer]

How many others would admit to going into a store and shoplifting.
Taking something without permission is theft.

Would you complain if someone took out you harddrive because they wanted it.

How about working, your paycheck is for your services. Do you work for free?

You didn't answer the question.

Also, nobody is arguing that piracy is OK. We don't think that corporations should have the power to censor the ISP for not blocking content. It's not the ISP's job to censor the internet, it's their job to provide access to it, period. If there is something illegal going on, go through the proper authorities to get it dealt with.

If the ISP wants to voluntarily block a site, fine but it's not their responsibility to police the internet.

Road construction crews put the highway down for us to drive on. Should they monitor and limit the speed at which we drive? If not, why not? Oh, it's not their job.

 

[PingviN]

How many others would admit to going into a store and shoplifting.
Taking something without permission is theft.

Would you complain if someone took out you harddrive because they wanted it.

How about working, your paycheck is for your services. Do you work for free?

The comparison is faulty. There is nothing "lost". A copy is made. If someone would copy my harddrive I wouldn't mind. I'd still have my harddrive.

If someone would copy my time or my paycheck (assuming I can still cash mine) I wouldn't mind.

You can argue that if you download, you don't buy. I download and don't buy, but even if I didn't download, I still wouldn't buy. Not even a sales opportunity is lost here. Copying music or videos is not theft. It's not comparable to shoplifting. I spend my money on going to live events and cinema instead of buying horribly overpriced music albums and DVDs. I am arguing piracy is ok.

edit: point of the matter is that media corporations should not police the web.

 

[Zebo]

If EK were king everyone would be wearing electronic bracelets and have video cameras in their house/car just to be sure they were doing nothing wrong and when some crime happened we know where everyone is at any given moment. That's what it amounts to with logging, blocking, tipping ISP are forced to do on the web.


* I should extend that to phone companies too since they were appropriated by NSA and monitor everything you say. Congress exempted them from lawsuits.

Kinda sad Europe has more respect for our Constitution than we do with regard to 1st and 4th..

 

[her209]

You have your rights as long as they do nog take away others.

Taking without permission is theft.

Tell that to the kid who jailbroke the Sony PS3 and then got sued.

 

[Double Trouble]

Regardless of how you feel about copyright/piracy/theft, nobody should feel comfortable with the idea that the RIAA, MPAA and other copyright owners should control what you can and can't access, and your ISP should not have to monitor or police your activity. Good ruling by the court, I wish the US understood this issue as clearly, but that's not likely given the lobbying dollars of the content industry.

 

[cybrsage]

Too bad it is not correct in this case. There are two basic kinds of theft, theft of property (which the picture shows) and theft of services (which the picture pretends does not exist).

A person commits the crime of theft of services if:

1. He intentionally obtains services known by him to be available only for compensation by deception, threat, false token or other means to avoid payment for the services;

http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft/

The person who pirates has stolen the programming services...they use the service without providing proper payment for said services.

Piracy is theft. Done and done.

 

[tommo123]

i had a reply written but my browser crashed and i can't be bothered typing it again. in summary .... you're wrong.

night all

 

[cybrsage]

Who is "you"?

I assume you are not being stupid and saying I am. Taking services without paying for them is theft of services. Unless you pay for the programmers' services in programming a game (for example), you are stealing his services...which is theft.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Too bad it is not correct in this case. There are two basic kinds of theft, theft of property (which the picture shows) and theft of services (which the picture pretends does not exist).


[/LIST]http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft/

The person who pirates has stolen the programming services...they use the service without providing proper payment for said services.

Piracy is theft. Done and done.

That would be true if they took from a service that gives music without paying for it. Someone who downloads it from a secondary site is neither stealing property or service. It's still wrong mind you.

 

[cybrsage]

We don't think that corporations should have the power to censor the ISP for not blocking content. It's not the ISP's job to censor the internet, it's their job to provide access to it, period. If there is something illegal going on, go through the proper authorities to get it dealt with.

If the ISP wants to voluntarily block a site, fine but it's not their responsibility to police the internet.

Road construction crews put the highway down for us to drive on. Should they monitor and limit the speed at which we drive? If not, why not? Oh, it's not their job.

As long as the ISP blocks nothing, they should not be forced to block XYZ. If the ISP voluntarily starts blocking things on their own, then they have opened the floodgates on themselves.

This is why most ISPs in the US block nothing...they are simply an open pipe. That way they are just like the roads you mentioned.

 

[cybrsage]

That would be true if they took from a service that gives music without paying for it. Someone who downloads it from a secondary site is neither stealing property or service. It's still wrong mind you.

They took the PROGRAMMING service (for a game). The people who programmed it provided the service of programming.

For a song, they took the SINGING service and the MIXING service without paying for them.

Theft of services is theft.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

They took the PROGRAMMING service (for a game). The people who programmed it provided the service of programming.

For a song, they took the SINGING service and the MIXING service without paying for them.

Theft of services is theft.

Sorry but you're wrong. It's not sold a service. You don't pay a craftsmen for the service of making a chair. You pay them for the chair. You don't pay a song writer for the service of writing a song. You pay them for the song.

 

[Mark R]

The article is misleading, as it doesn't say what the judgement actually said:

The judgement was that arbitrary, global blocks, at the ISPs expense are illegal - i.e. an ISP cannot be ordered to block freemp3s.com indefinitely, for all its users, and at its own cost. (As happened in the BT / Newzbin case)

However, if the record company wants to go to an ISP and say, "Please block access to freemp3s.com for your customer Homer J Simpson pursuant to the enclosed court order, and invoice us for the cost of the block" - then that would be perfectly legal.

 

[cybrsage]

Sorry but you're wrong. It's not sold a service. You don't pay a craftsmen for the service of making a chair. You pay them for the chair. You don't pay a song writer for the service of writing a song. You pay them for the song.

Ah, to be young and naive like you.

What are you paying for when you buy the chair? You are paying for the labor, the cost of materials, and some profit for the worker.

You pay for their services when you pay someone for doing some service for you, like building a chair or recording a song or progamming a game.

Next time you have your car in the garage, look over the bill. You will see the cost of the new parts they put in AND labor...yes, they bill you for services renderend.


It is a well known thing, and everyone who is out in the world on their own already knowns it. Only those who have yet to have to pay their own bills, have cars repaired, have a new furnace installed, etc., may not yet understand that you are paying for services every time you buy something.