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Europe is Having Problems!

TalonStrike

TalonStrike

Senior member
First Greece had problems, so Germany had to bail them out. Now, Spain and Italy are having problems, so they are begging Germany for a bail out too. This is why the E.U. was a bad idea. Also, England is on fire.
 
Greece needs to leave the EU so it can fix its problems.

They made a mistake by letting the weaker countries in on the Euro.
 
The EU is a terrific idea. However, its zeal to expand and take in nations whose books haven't been properly vetted has led to some nasty problems.

Another part of the problem is that despite having a single monetary unit, the EU does not have only a single finance minister. The Germans being spendthrift while the Greeks and Italians spend wildly is bound to lead to issues. On the other hand, by being in the EU Germany essentially ends up getting a huge advantage in competitiveness (outside the EU, the deutschmark would surely have risen in value) and also basically ends up owning half of the continent via loans. These bailouts have never equated to free money, after all.
 
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The EU has two options going forward:
1. Surrender political power and sovereignty to Germany to strengthen the union (and get bailout cash)
2. Eject parasitic members and shrink the union
 
yllus said:
-snip-
These bailouts have never equated to free money, after all.
Click to expand...

I suppose mostly true. I say "mostly" because I've been reading that Greece has/or will be defaulting on some it's loans. If so, that was 'free money' and somebody is taking it in the shorts.

Fern
 
The Euro as a currency is pretty dumb. Visit a couple countries and it becomes clear that the currency is highly over valued and makes no sense. Using the Euro in a poor country like Italy or Greece is borderline retarded. Besides that who wants to go shopping and finish the day with about 6 kg of change in their pocket? You literally end up with more change in your pockets now than you did before the Euro and that's really saying something considering I have a small piggy bank at home with left over change from a dozen countries.

The Shengen agreement though is pretty good. I'm fairly sure that this predates the EU or is a product of the early version of the EU but making travel between countries easier is a good thing. Within reason. As it stands now they have NO checks and balances. So immigration is out of control and if someone makes it into the EU they simply throw away their passport and documents and make a bee line to the richest countries with the most social benefits. As a funny aside have you ever wondered why there are virtually no serial killers in the EU?

To me the EU is a huge subsidy project and it needs to be reevaluated. However lets agree that unity in Europe is a good thing. Anything that can be done to get all these nations to cooperate and hopefully get along might avert another war or two in the region.
 
Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money to spend. Look to Germany/France to say "enough of this shit" in due time.
 
randomrogue said:
The Euro as a currency is pretty dumb. Visit a couple countries and it becomes clear that the currency is highly over valued and makes no sense. Using the Euro in a poor country like Italy or Greece is borderline retarded. Besides that who wants to go shopping and finish the day with about 6 kg of change in their pocket? You literally end up with more change in your pockets now than you did before the Euro and that's really saying something considering I have a small piggy bank at home with left over change from a dozen countries.

The Shengen agreement though is pretty good. I'm fairly sure that this predates the EU or is a product of the early version of the EU but making travel between countries easier is a good thing. Within reason. As it stands now they have NO checks and balances. So immigration is out of control and if someone makes it into the EU they simply throw away their passport and documents and make a bee line to the richest countries with the most social benefits. As a funny aside have you ever wondered why there are virtually no serial killers in the EU?

To me the EU is a huge subsidy project and it needs to be reevaluated. However lets agree that unity in Europe is a good thing. Anything that can be done to get all these nations to cooperate and hopefully get along might avert another war or two in the region.
Click to expand...

Europe still has the military capacity to wage wars? Anything longer than a few weeks and they'd probably run out of ammo. Russia notwithstanding.
 
spidey07 said:
Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money to spend. Look to Germany/France to say "enough of this shit" in due time.
Click to expand...

Spidey, there's much more causing problems than "omgsocialism!". In fact, it seems ancillary to the fundamental problems that the EU faces right now. Besides, you have to remember that we are still trying to recover from a global financial catastrophe. Europe will be just fine.....eventually. For right now, they have some pretty hard decisions to make with respect to sovereignty and economic policy.
 
spidey07 said:
Whatever the equivalent of taking your marbles and going home is. If those countries are bleeding you dry with no real end in sight, why would you want them?
Click to expand...

The EU has the potential to be greater than the sum of its parts. It is true here in the US. By your argument, many sections of the US should be forcibly ejected from the union.
 
randomrogue said:
The Euro as a currency is pretty dumb. Visit a couple countries and it becomes clear that the currency is highly over valued and makes no sense. Using the Euro in a poor country like Italy or Greece is borderline retarded. Besides that who wants to go shopping and finish the day with about 6 kg of change in their pocket? You literally end up with more change in your pockets now than you did before the Euro and that's really saying something considering I have a small piggy bank at home with left over change from a dozen countries.

The Shengen agreement though is pretty good. I'm fairly sure that this predates the EU or is a product of the early version of the EU but making travel between countries easier is a good thing. Within reason. As it stands now they have NO checks and balances. So immigration is out of control and if someone makes it into the EU they simply throw away their passport and documents and make a bee line to the richest countries with the most social benefits. As a funny aside have you ever wondered why there are virtually no serial killers in the EU?

To me the EU is a huge subsidy project and it needs to be reevaluated. However lets agree that unity in Europe is a good thing. Anything that can be done to get all these nations to cooperate and hopefully get along might avert another war or two in the region.
Click to expand...

Wait, wat.
 
The only problem with the Euro is that it's a monetary union without a fiscal union.

They either need to walk away from the zone or strengthen it with a central gov making fiscal policy.
 
Schadenfroh said:
The EU has two options going forward:
1. Surrender political power and sovereignty to Germany to strengthen the union (and get bailout cash)
2. Eject parasitic members and shrink the union
Click to expand...

Or, Germany reverts to the Deutschemark and no longer has to worry about who they're going to need to bail out next.
 
Germany's growth has also completely stopped, so support for further bailouts will be tough.

The dissolution of the EU is probably a good thing for the world. We'll just have to make sure that in the immediate chaos of the end of the EU, that no European powers try to commit some sort of genocide. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if they blamed Muslims or the Roma for their demise and begin a campaign of ethnic cleansing. Just park 2-3 aircraft carrier battle groups around Europe when the time comes, or maybe let China, India, and Brazil take it over.
 
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