[Eurogamer] The state of 2GB VRAM GPUs

[Innokentij]

Does that mean that you're suffering from big GPU complex?

I wish mate, my mid range 980TI dont even have HBM memory, outdated crap card. Giving away for free

 

[moonbogg]

What?

It's like going on to a collector's car forum and going "wow jeeze you guys are elitist, guess I'll have to sell my 1996 honda accord and walk using such a pedestrian car."

What did you expect on an enthusiast forum about video game graphics and graphics cards.... That is literally the purpose of this forum. Next we'll be complaining about getting wet when we go swimming

LOL this is true and quite funny. This is a place where performance takes precedence over all else. Unless I can't afford the thing, then its an over priced piece of crap that some people waste their money on. Also, people who buy cheaper stuff than me don't value a quality experience. I always make the best, most logical choices regarding hardware purchases.

 

[2is]

Wow, I thought I was having fun playing on my 1gb card, albeit at lower settings. Guess I will have to quit because I should be miserable using such pedestrian hardware.

Seriously, not directed at any poster in particular, but the elitism is the VC&G forums is getting out of hand.

Shall we create an 8800GT thread and talk about the good ole' days instead? Check your envy, this isn't the place for it. This is the place to talk about what we are talking about though. While I don't believe 4GB cards will be obsolete as soon as Moonbogg things, it's all a matter of opinion and speculation right now.

 

[Madpacket]

Most people completely ignore this fact. That's why even 4GB cards are only enough for right now, because anyone who has two of them will run into Vram issues this year if they haven't already. Try to use a single texture mod and boom, your 4GB cards just turned to suck. We are entering 8GB territory soon for high end cards. It almost seems like game devs are racing each other to see who can use more Vram in their games the fastest. Its like they think they are badass if their game needs 6GB of Vram or something.
Know what would make my panties wet? Dual 8GB Pascals...oh yeah baby.

Can you cite some evidence to backup these claims?

 

[Madpacket]

I'm not talking about whether its faster, I'm talking about the fact it has enough vram capacity to handle Ultra Textures which does not impact performance as much as "Ultra" settings do in most games, with advanced shaders, effects, shadows and AA.

A game on medium settings for everything but maxed Textures options will look a LOT better than a game on medium everything.

These custom settings are perfectly capable in a 960 or 380 class performance at 1080p. What $20 extra (2 vs 4GB vram) buys is a vastly better image quality experience.

It is a major flaw of game review sites, to simply test with everything cranked to maxed and result in an unplayable experience, then concluding a 960 doesn't have the performance to enjoy what is otherwise close to Ultra settings in visuals.

Case in point if you got Witcher 3, put everything on Medium, crank textures up maxed. Now play and see how close to maxed it is, compared to everything on Medium. You can do this for pretty much any game that has texture options.

For a few, 2GB cards simply cannot enable the highest textures or stutter while doing so.

ps. Gamers with lower end hardware do not run things on Ultra, but customize their experience to extract the best visuals at the best performance. Texture settings have the greatest impact along with resolution settings.

No the extra RAM does not buy you a "vastly better gaming experience". Ultra vs High resolution textures don't matter at 1080P. The 960 was never meant to be outfitted with 4GB. It neither has the bandwidth or fillrate to use it effectively.

The only reasonable use case would be for SLI.

 

[Madpacket]

The point is it isn't a questionable benefit, it's a monumental benefit to be able to run modern games on maxed texture quality as opposed to being forced to tone those down.

The only questionable benefits with default "ultra/max" has always been things like shadows , HBAO (Dying Light suffers a ~40% performance drop for having darker shadows..) or other effects that add minuscule image quality.

In the grand theme of graphics settings that affect visual quality the most, it would be Resolution, Texture, Basic Shadows and AA.

In the grand scheme of things these settings are engine independent and vary greatly.

 

[Madpacket]

If the 960 is low end, what is the 950 ti? Low Low end?

Isn't the terminology more like,
Low End
Mid
High End
Enthusiast



Maybe not always for a $600 card, but for something as cheap as the 960, absolutely.

As someone else stated it's really a matter of perspective but IMHO the 950/960 are close enough in price performance where I consider both low end, just priced wrong.

Entry level gaming cards start at the 750 Ti.

 

[Madpacket]

It's relative to available bucks. Spenders will view high,med,low as TiX/980ti, 980/970, 960/950. Budget people perhaps 970, 960/950, 750Ti/750/740/730.

+1

 

[frozentundra123456]

Shall we create an 8800GT thread and talk about the good ole' days instead? Check your envy, this isn't the place for it. This is the place to talk about what we are talking about though. While I don't believe 4GB cards will be obsolete as soon as Moonbogg things, it's all a matter of opinion and speculation right now.

I dont envy anybody on this forum. I could easily go to microcenter tomorrow and buy any video card I want. I just would like to see people be allowed to enjoy gaming with a wide variety of hardware instead of all the bashing and hysteria. "Oh no, that card is a piece of crap, the frametimes are 20% longer than the 4gb model in a few games out of the thousands on the market. How awful." Or the constant criticism of people who buy from a certain company because their competitor supposedly offers better value. Arent people allowed to spend their money as they please?

Posting ones opinions and speculation is fine, but it is the bashing and criticism that bothers me.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I dont envy anybody on this forum. I could easily go to microcenter tomorrow and buy any video card I want. I just would like to see people be allowed to enjoy gaming with a wide variety of hardware instead of all the bashing and hysteria. "Oh no, that card is a piece of crap, the frametimes are 20% longer than the 4gb model in a few games out of the thousands on the market. How awful." Or the constant criticism of people who buy from a certain company because their competitor supposedly offers better value. Arent people allowed to spend their money as they please?

Posting ones opinions and speculation is fine, but it is the bashing and criticism that bothers me.

As Anand used to say, there are no bad products just bad prices.

 

[Madpacket]

In the real world 960 is upper mid range, 970 is high end. 980Ti is silly money - super high end.

This forum lives in a bit of a weird bubble where a 970 would be considered min spec, and games can't be fun unless you can run at ultra textures (which look identical to high textures for most people playing the game and not studying screen shots with a magnifying glass).

I don't think anyone is stating you need a minimum of a 970 to have fun. Heck I had a blast play testing games on a 5350 APU a while back and in fact do most of my couch PC gaming on a 7850K APU and a ZenBook with basic Intel integrated graphics.

There are many price points and "in the real world" many enthusiasts do buy 980 Ti's regardless if they need them or not (just like many people spend 800+ on an iPhone) even while making minimum wages.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Madpacket please use the multi-quote feature.

 

[Phynaz]

Double

 

[Phynaz]

What?

It's like going on to a collector's car forum and going "wow jeeze you guys are elitist, guess I'll have to sell my 1996 honda accord and walk using such a pedestrian car."

What did you expect on an enthusiast forum about video game graphics and graphics cards.... That is literally the purpose of this forum. Next we'll be complaining about getting wet when we go swimming

Since when does enthusiast mean high end (excluding what marketing would like you to think)?

Those of us with mid-range systems can still be enthusiastic about technology.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Those of us with mid-range systems can still be enthusiastic about technology.

Been using my wifes new pc i built for days now which has a G1820 and GT 740.Haven't touched my i5 2500 much since i am so damn curious what a $45 cpu can do or can't with a $60 gpu these days.

Quite boring knowing the latest i5 is all you really need,i find it more interesting to see what you could play or not with lower end hardware.You don't need a i3 even for something like WOT which is a fun game.

 

[2is]

I dont envy anybody on this forum. I could easily go to microcenter tomorrow and buy any video card I want. I just would like to see people be allowed to enjoy gaming with a wide variety of hardware instead of all the bashing and hysteria. "Oh no, that card is a piece of crap, the frametimes are 20% longer than the 4gb model in a few games out of the thousands on the market. How awful." Or the constant criticism of people who buy from a certain company because their competitor supposedly offers better value. Arent people allowed to spend their money as they please?

Posting ones opinions and speculation is fine, but it is the bashing and criticism that bothers me.

If this thread is causing anyone to not enjoy gaming, they have other problems besides video cards. There is nothing being said here that should cause anyone to not enjoy their games. Some people are giving opinions on future demands, some are making a point about 2GB cards being bottlenecked. One example was SLI 680's which is exactly what I had prior to my 980Ti, and I can tell you that what is being said about 2GB is absolutely true. People saying 2GB is a limitation isn't what caused me to upgrade, the fact that it WAS a limitation is, so I'm still rather unsure of what you're complaining about. Maybe you CAN buy any card you want but you're clearly not willing to. Still seems like you're upset people are talking about hardware you're unwilling to buy.

 

[moonbogg]

Can you cite some evidence to backup these claims?

I'm not obligated to do anyone else's foot work for them and I don't feel the need to do so. You don't need to give my opinion any weight either. Just remember that regarding 4GB cards, that's what I have shared. Its an opinion and my own personal projection into the future about 4GB being enough or not. For single card users, it might be fine for a while. For dual card users, they might already be pushing it. I've been a dual card user since Geforce 6800, so that's the experience I speak about.

 

[frozentundra123456]

If this thread is causing anyone to not enjoy gaming, they have other problems besides video cards. There is nothing being said here that should cause anyone to not enjoy their games. Some people are giving opinions on future demands, some are making a point about 2GB cards being bottlenecked. One example was SLI 680's which is exactly what I had prior to my 980Ti, and I can tell you that what is being said about 2GB is absolutely true. People saying 2GB is a limitation isn't what caused me to upgrade, the fact that it WAS a limitation is, so I'm still rather unsure of what you're complaining about. Maybe you CAN buy any card you want but you're clearly not willing to. Still seems like you're upset people are talking about hardware you're unwilling to buy.

I dont think you really understand what I am talking about at all. What upsets is not the debate about the hardware, or what hardware I am willing to buy or not buy, but the overbearing and condescending way that a few posters (I dont mean you) try to hammer home their points, are absolutely certain they are right, and imply or directly state that anyone that does not buy the card they think is the best value is stupid, uninformed or blindly taken in by a certain company's marketing. I mean someone can even be right, but does it hurt them to admit that there may be other viewpoints or that others may have different priorities?

But this is off topic, and I wish I had never voiced my opinions, so I am not going to post anymore about this.

 

[2is]

I'm not obligated to do anyone else's foot work for them and I don't feel the need to do so. You don't need to give my opinion any weight either. Just remember that regarding 4GB cards, that's what I have shared. Its an opinion and my own personal projection into the future about 4GB being enough or not. For single card users, it might be fine for a while. For dual card users, they might already be pushing it. I've been a dual card user since Geforce 6800, so that's the experience I speak about.

The data we have doesn't really support this though. When Fury X launched with 4GB there was plenty of tests done all the way up to 4k and 4GB was enough. Texture mods aside, 4GB IS enough... Today at resolutions up to and including 4k it's not so much a matter of opinion since there is supporting data out there. Now would I buy a 4GB card today? Absolutely not. But if I had one (or two) it's not something I'd be concerned with... Yet.

I will say however that buying a 4GB card today that you plan on holding on to is similar to buying a 2GB 680/670 back when they were released, and it would be an especially bad idea if you buy two of them since you'll probably end up having plenty of GPU power with not enough vram to crank your settings in the not too distant future.

 

[moonbogg]

The data we have doesn't really support this though. When Fury X launched with 4GB there was plenty of tests done all the way up to 4k and 4GB was enough. Texture mods aside, 4GB IS enough... Today at resolutions up to and including 4k it's not so much a matter of opinion since there is supporting data out there. Now would I buy a 4GB card today? Absolutely not. But if I had one (or two) it's not something I'd be concerned with... Yet.

I will say however that buying a 4GB card today that you plan on holding on to is similar to buying a 2GB 680/670 back when they were released, and it would be an especially bad idea if you buy two of them since you'll probably end up having plenty of GPU power with not enough vram to crank your settings in the not too distant future.

I agree. The reason I wonder if people have trouble now is because a few select games like GTA V can really use a ton of Vram. I agree its mostly an issue for the near future if you plan on keeping the cards. Like you said, this is very much like buying two 670's/680's with 2GB of ram. I see it as exactly the same situation.

@ frozentundra123456

I don't intend to offend people and I don't try to be mean. That's just the way I behave sometimes. I get overly excited and my passion for the hobby makes me a little crazy. Or maybe I'm just crazy. Did you know I like to smell my new hardware? If you don't smell your hardware you are missing out. Only real enthusiasts have the balls to admit they smell their hardware.

 

[2is]

But are you man enough to admit you smell your software?

 

[Madpacket]

Lol time for a different thread. "I love the smell of new hardware in the morning".

 

[2is]

Since we've already went off topic, I guess I'll somewhat follow that trend. How do you guys fund your video card purchases? Video cards are an interesting breed. They are usually the stumbling block to get into and stay into PC gaming as they are often times, not only the single most expensive component, but also the component that gets upgraded most often.

I would normally just buy one when I'm in need of an upgrade and would typically time my purchase around a new product release. What I've started to do in the last couple months is take the rebates from everything I buy, which almost always come in the form of a credit card these days, and convert them over to an Amazon gift card, which is my "new GPU fund" and at the rate it's growing, it will make staying at or near the top a lot easier on the wallet.

 

[moonbogg]

Since we've already went off topic, I guess I'll somewhat follow that trend. How do you guys fund your video card purchases? Video cards are an interesting breed. They are usually the stumbling block to get into and stay into PC gaming as they are often times, not only the single most expensive component, but also the component that gets upgraded most often.

I would normally just buy one when I'm in need of an upgrade and would typically time my purchase around a new product release. What I've started to do in the last couple months is take the rebates from everything I buy, which almost always come in the form of a credit card these days, and convert them over to an Amazon gift card, which is my "new GPU fund" and at the rate it's growing, it will make staying at or near the top a lot easier on the wallet.

I have an allowance I give myself each week. I don't go beyond it and I don't go below it. I can save it to buy something big (like 980ti's) or I can piss it away on expensive lunch and starbucks every day. I don't have a lot of money, but the money I do have I am deliberate with and I make choices. The only credit I used is for a mortgage. I won't borrow from some rich bank CEO bastard just so I can buy a couple video cards that I can't afford. I have no debt other than a mortgage, and that's enough to piss me right off actually.

 

[Madpacket]

Since we've already went off topic, I guess I'll somewhat follow that trend. How do you guys fund your video card purchases? Video cards are an interesting breed. They are usually the stumbling block to get into and stay into PC gaming as they are often times, not only the single most expensive component, but also the component that gets upgraded most often.

I would normally just buy one when I'm in need of an upgrade and would typically time my purchase around a new product release. What I've started to do in the last couple months is take the rebates from everything I buy, which almost always come in the form of a credit card these days, and convert them over to an Amazon gift card, which is my "new GPU fund" and at the rate it's growing, it will make staying at or near the top a lot easier on the wallet.

Bitcoin which I earned with video cards years ago. I started mining when they were worth $3.00 each a and a single 5870 could earn you a whole coin in a day or two.


How do you convert gift cards to Amazon bucks?