EuroFighter versus the F22 Raptor

[Turkish]

WTF! F22 Raptor costs $338 Million for each one? :Q:Q:Q:Q:Q How many of these does the U.S. have?

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
The F-22 won't go Mach 2.5+. I've read that while the engines have plenty of power to push it faster, its flight control system limits the top speed to around Mach 1.8. This is because they used a lot of composites in the F-22's construction, and the plastic wouldn't be able to take the heat like aluminum can. Therefore they limit the top speed.

They should put a red emergency overdrive button in that lets it go the full Mach 2.5, like on Baloo's plane in Tailspin.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
I'll just take it from a man who actually knows, not a bunch of Armchair Generals:

In March 2005, USAF Chief of Staff General John P. Jumper, then the only person to have flown both the Typhoon and the Raptor, talked about these two aircraft. He said that "the Eurofighter is both agile and sophisticated, but is still difficult to compare to the F-22 Raptor". "They are different kinds of airplanes to start with," the general said. "It's like asking us to compare a NASCAR car with a Formula 1 car. They are both exciting in different ways, but they are designed for different levels of performance."

Not that I disagree, but you'd have trouble finding a more partisan source.

 

[Lizardman]

"While making a reliable assessment is impossible with available information, there is a study by the UK's DERA comparing the Typhoon to other contemporary fighters; in it, the Typhoon was second only to the F-22A in combat performance."

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter

Edit: the F-22 is an air superiority fighter, the Eurofighter is not.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

F22 for sure

at uni, we have a half dismantled Eurofighter on display in the Aero/Auto building.....i dont like the look of it

but i think they have different roles, the F22 is stealth (on radar its no bigger than a sparrow or something) its got super cool weapons bays that open up, fire the weapon then close again, looks very nice, and its got that awesome super cruise (can cruise at mach 1.5 for 30min without after burners)


euro fighter, if it hasnt got stealth, which i dont think it does, must surely be a machine built for dog fights. its incredibly fast, and super agile in the air. without its computers, of which there are many, theres no way anyone could even set that thing going down the run way....

the euro fighter is impressively mobile, but i dunno, the F22 just looks the part, is super fast, super trick , and super stealth. i dont think it matters what anyone else builds, the US has the best aircraft ever built.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Amplifier
Most of you aren't qualified to answer this question. I actually fly jets for the US Airforce so here are my two cents.

-The Raptor handles high G turns far better than any variant of the EuroFighter.
-The Raptor has much better targeting system for it's air to surface missles.
-The Raptor has a better weight to range ratio. Meaning it's better as a dog fighter on missions that extend out over 500+ miles from the airfield.
-The Raptor is much better at evading radar detection.
-The Raptor's cockpit and heads up display are excellent. Here is a picture from inside my bird. Pic 1

On the most recent mission I flew, my wingman and I took out several key Iraqi targets along the Iraq/Iran border helping to restore balance in the middle east. Later tonight I'm going to be attacking radar installations in Soviet Russia so if you have any questions ask them now.

LOL im a n00b

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: batmanuel

Originally posted by: Babbles
China's military needs to go beyond 1981 before they can actually overtake the US in military technology.

The most advanced technology doesn't always win out in the battlefield. Sometimes you just need something cheap and semi-reliable that you can deploy in much greater numbers. The Panzer was the M1A1 Abrams of its day, and was unparalleled in its sophistication, but it didn't help the Germans from getting overrun by the Russians who had a greater number of less spohisticated T-34s. One German soldier told the Russians "You need five of your tanks to destroy a single German one, but you always have six." I'm worried we might find ourselves in a si milar situation one day, where we face an enemy that is able to neutralize our technological advantage with sheer numerical superiority.

The Russians have(had) a saying...

Quantity has a quality all its own.

Which is an ok philosophy, until you're behind the wheel of one of those hunks of junk...or you apply it to a nuclear power plant.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
sticking 'euro' in front of it makes me think it's a cheap marketing ploy to dupe gullible americans into thinking that it's a better product than it really is.

nah, lol its just another one of them things where...everyone goes yeah lets build a fighter..then slowly everyone pulls out, and it takes longer and longer to actually make the damn thing


what should happen is basically, we should just buy planes off you.....

F22's are what 133million a go, JSF's are 40 million and still stealth and all that jazz.... better giving the money to the US, than dumping ****** loads into R&Ding a plane that wont be the best when it arrives.

if i go to the lake district....the RAF still fly round in the Tornado's....:|

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
A better comparison would be 5 eurofighters vs 1 f22, since they would be about the same price. Though my knowledge on the subject is limited, i would say the 5 eurofighters would own the f22.

Thats the problem with the Euro fighter it would not. The would have to know exactly where it is, soround it, keep up with it Mach 2.5 top speed and its advanced menouvering.

With itss Stealth Tech it is going to be alot harder for them to find the F-22 then it would be for the one F-22 to find the 5 euros. Add on the fact that it has amazing range the F22 would be firing its missles long before the Euros even knew the F-22 was out there. I think it would take two immeadeatly a third before they have time to react a 4th before they figured out its general location. Leaving them one on one, and who do you think would win.

im sure the euro fighter could keep pace, its fast, has some serious engines and it changes direction like a house fly. but i vote that the eurofighters would be taken out before they knew the raptor was there.

and how does the aircrafts range, mean it can fire missiles from miles out? surely thats the missiles range, ya know, independant of the aircrafts range?

how many things can the F22 carry? all its bomb bays are in the body compartments?

 

[otispunkmeyer]

the best bit for me is that, despite all the planes today

the blackbird is still the fastest, such a beautiful plane

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Slickone

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: batmanuel


Hard to tell, though, with the way the USAF usually classifies the top speeds on their birds. I don't think that anyone to this day really knows how fast the SR-71 could go..

I'd like to address the point about the SR-71. The SR-71's speed is well known and the reasons for the limitations are well known also. It's freely published for anyone who is curious. The only thing which is classified is the mission info, since the government doesn't want to openly admit that they illegally overflew other countries. Hell, they denied that U2's were overflying the Soviet Union until the Russians shot one down and produced the wreckage.
[/q
The pilot's operating manual says Mach 3.3 is the max.

engines were capable of 3.6 i believe, but that would be the absolute and probably theoretical limit

 

[kosstamogen]

Originally posted by: Kenazo

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
A better comparison would be 5 eurofighters vs 1 f22, since they would be about the same price. Though my knowledge on the subject is limited, i would say the 5 eurofighters would own the f22.

If two F-22s could take out 18 F-15's before they even knew what the *&^# was going on, I think that one F-22 could take out 5 Eurofighters.

/arm chair critiquing

How many missiles can the F-22 carry?

I'm out of missiles, switching to guns!

 

[dawheat]

Originally posted by: aswedc

Aircraft Odds vs.
Su-35
Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor 10.1:1
Eurofighter Typhoon 4.5:1
Sukhoi Su-35 'Flanker' 1.0:1
Dassault Rafale C 1.0:1
McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle 0.8:1
Boeing F/A-18+ 0.4:1
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18C 0.3:1
General Dynamics F-16C 0.3:1

These results mean, for example, that in simulated combat, 4.5 Su-35s were shot down for every Typhoon lost.

From Wikipedia. Based on that data, you can assume that it would take two Eurofighters to take down each F22.

I don't think that's an accurate correlation to be made (does anything really think 12 F-16Cs would be lost vs every Eurofigher?) though you can make some general conclusions. American air doctrine has never been about fair play and it would be unlikely that a flight of F-22s under AWACs control would ever come close enough for ACM unless absoutely necessary. Medium range hit and run tactics at supercruise would be more likely with opposing fighters never having a chance to even detect the F-22s.

 

[KillerCharlie]

Originally posted by: Turkish
WTF! F22 Raptor costs $338 Million for each one? :Q:Q:Q:Q:Q How many of these does the U.S. have?

Read my previous post. That includes the cost of development over 20+ years for tons of new technologies. The actual cost of a plane is much lower.

 

[KillerCharlie]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
A better comparison would be 5 eurofighters vs 1 f22, since they would be about the same price. Though my knowledge on the subject is limited, i would say the 5 eurofighters would own the f22.

Thats the problem with the Euro fighter it would not. The would have to know exactly where it is, soround it, keep up with it Mach 2.5 top speed and its advanced menouvering.

With itss Stealth Tech it is going to be alot harder for them to find the F-22 then it would be for the one F-22 to find the 5 euros. Add on the fact that it has amazing range the F22 would be firing its missles long before the Euros even knew the F-22 was out there. I think it would take two immeadeatly a third before they have time to react a 4th before they figured out its general location. Leaving them one on one, and who do you think would win.

im sure the euro fighter could keep pace, its fast, has some serious engines and it changes direction like a house fly. but i vote that the eurofighters would be taken out before they knew the raptor was there.

and how does the aircrafts range, mean it can fire missiles from miles out? surely thats the missiles range, ya know, independant of the aircrafts range?

how many things can the F22 carry? all its bomb bays are in the body compartments?

The F-22 also has external hardpoints to carry even more missiles and bombs, but it probably won't use them as much because of stealth considerations. However, even when using external weapons it's more stealthy than the Eurofighter.

 

[Slickone]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: Slickone

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
I'd like to address the point about the SR-71. The SR-71's speed is well known and the reasons for the limitations are well known also. It's freely published for anyone who is curious. The only thing which is classified is the mission info, since the government doesn't want to openly admit that they illegally overflew other countries. Hell, they denied that U2's were overflying the Soviet Union until the Russians shot one down and produced the wreckage.

The pilot's operating manual says Mach 3.3 is the max.

engines were capable of 3.6 i believe, but that would be the absolute and probably theoretical limit

Engines? What does that matter?
Again, the pilot's operating manual, for the plane, says Mach 3.3 is the max. And that was only if CIT was below 427 C. The normal operations max cruise speed was 3.2. The CIA's A-12 was actually faster and could flight higher (3.35; 95,000) than the SR-71 (85,000).

Edit: fixed otispunkmeyer's broken quoting.

 

[MBrown]

F-22 not just because it has vector thust, go supersonic without the need for afterburners, and is the first real stealth fighter (the F-117 is basically a small bomber) but because my dad was one of the people who worked and is working on the F-22 program. He is also working on the JSF program.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Turkish
WTF! F22 Raptor costs $338 Million for each one? :Q:Q:Q:Q:Q How many of these does the U.S. have?

cost depends on how many you buy. they've cut back the numbers being ordered so the per unit cost seems higher since they have to spread the development cost over a fewer number of planes.

no idea on how they really compare. generally acknowledged the f22 is superior, the euros don't fund their military after all, and squabble and such. if i had to tag along in one during a fight, the f22 of course hands down😛