EU - one nation under god?

[dpm]

Originally posted by: Taggart
To refer back to the original question: I would think that the UN seats wouldn't be an issue. If Europeans back the consolidation of many nations into one, and are enthusiastic about it, they would demand the same status as any other nation. I call dibs on E Pluribus Unum, they can't have it on their money too!

Hey, I thought you dropped that one back in the 60s for that Under God business. Since you'd never see that as an EU motto, I call fair play on nicking the Latin. After all, we do have Rome ...

 

[dpm]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Dari the EU is an utter joke that should abide by its founding principles and open its markets for absolute free trade with no tariffs or any other barriers to progress.

You first. We Canadians are waiting on the US to abide by the NAFTA agreement, yet the US puts up tarrifs on a whim and Canada has to spend years to have them reversed.

how about everyone dive in at the same time.

Not ever going to happen. One of the downsides of living in a democracy - 9 out of 9 politicians can't overlook short term political pressure to hold firm on what they (claim to) believe in, especially if that's a long term goal.

Look at American steel tariffs - the white house must have known full well that they were illegal when they proposed them, but the short term pressure was too much, and they merely put off the reckoning. Short term and locally, it was good for Bush. Long term, it was bad for world trade. Sadly, any other politician would have done the same.

 

[LeadMagnet]

.

Not ever going to happen. One of the downsides of living in a democracy - 9 out of 9 politicians can't overlook short term political pressure to hold firm on what they (claim to) believe in, especially if that's a long term goal.

This is very true - and because of politicians short sightedness there will never be any real reform made in government

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: LeadMagnet
.

Not ever going to happen. One of the downsides of living in a democracy - 9 out of 9 politicians can't overlook short term political pressure to hold firm on what they (claim to) believe in, especially if that's a long term goal.

This is very true - and because of politicians short sightedness there will never be any real reform made in government

Unless the voter uses his/her power to do so. Which is why all the "persecution" of those speaking out against Bush's policies is detrimental to Democracy, classic cart before the horse.

 

[charrison]

linkage

More freedom in the EU.

The European Union has ruled that ham and cheese sliced outside the region where it is grown just won't taste the same.

The EU's highest court has ruled in the case of northern Italy's famous salty Parma ham.

It said Parma ham and the region's gourmet Grana Padano cheese could only be sliced or grated for pre-packaging in the regions where they were made.

 

[dpm]

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage More freedom in the EU.

The European Union has ruled that ham and cheese sliced outside the region where it is grown just won't taste the same. The EU's highest court has ruled in the case of northern Italy's famous salty Parma ham. It said Parma ham and the region's gourmet Grana Padano cheese could only be sliced or grated for pre-packaging in the regions where they were made.

And your point is?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

More freedom in the EU.

The European Union has ruled that ham and cheese sliced outside the region where it is grown just won't taste the same.

The EU's highest court has ruled in the case of northern Italy's famous salty Parma ham.

It said Parma ham and the region's gourmet Grana Padano cheese could only be sliced or grated for pre-packaging in the regions where they were made.

This is a Brand/marketing issue. Though it may seem petty, the makers of the product did not want their product marketed in this fashion, so now they have the legal protection to market it as they see fit.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

More freedom in the EU.

The European Union has ruled that ham and cheese sliced outside the region where it is grown just won't taste the same.

The EU's highest court has ruled in the case of northern Italy's famous salty Parma ham.

It said Parma ham and the region's gourmet Grana Padano cheese could only be sliced or grated for pre-packaging in the regions where they were made.

This is a Brand/marketing issue. Though it may seem petty, the makers of the product did not want their product marketed in this fashion, so now they have the legal protection to market it as they see fit.

Actually this goes pretty far beyond brand/marketing. This is regional protection of a product. Parma ham can only be made in Parma. There is nothing special about pigs in Parma. I have no problem with protecting how parma ham is made or having quality standards for Parma ham, but saying it can only be made in a given region is downright stupid.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

More freedom in the EU.

The European Union has ruled that ham and cheese sliced outside the region where it is grown just won't taste the same.

The EU's highest court has ruled in the case of northern Italy's famous salty Parma ham.

It said Parma ham and the region's gourmet Grana Padano cheese could only be sliced or grated for pre-packaging in the regions where they were made.

This is a Brand/marketing issue. Though it may seem petty, the makers of the product did not want their product marketed in this fashion, so now they have the legal protection to market it as they see fit.

Actually this goes pretty far beyond brand/marketing. This is regional protection of a product. Parma ham can only be made in Parma. There is nothing special about pigs in Parma. I have no problem with protecting how parma ham is made or having quality standards for Parma ham, but saying it can only be made in a given region is downright stupid.

If it wasn't made in Parma, then it wouldn't be Parma Ham, would it? This is simply businesses protecting their products. If you think this is stupid, can you share your opinion of the DMCA?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

More freedom in the EU.

The European Union has ruled that ham and cheese sliced outside the region where it is grown just won't taste the same.

The EU's highest court has ruled in the case of northern Italy's famous salty Parma ham.

It said Parma ham and the region's gourmet Grana Padano cheese could only be sliced or grated for pre-packaging in the regions where they were made.

This is a Brand/marketing issue. Though it may seem petty, the makers of the product did not want their product marketed in this fashion, so now they have the legal protection to market it as they see fit.

Actually this goes pretty far beyond brand/marketing. This is regional protection of a product. Parma ham can only be made in Parma. There is nothing special about pigs in Parma. I have no problem with protecting how parma ham is made or having quality standards for Parma ham, but saying it can only be made in a given region is downright stupid.

If it wasn't made in Parma, then it wouldn't be Parma Ham, would it? This is simply businesses protecting their products. If you think this is stupid, can you share your opinion of the DMCA?

And it is not champaign if it not made in France. Apparently the EU has a list of several hundred items like this that they want to give such protection. I think this is foolish. If they want to patent a process, I have no problem with it. Patents do expire after a reasonable time. The intellectual property rights of making parma ham and champaign have long since expired.

As far as DMCA, I do beleive that intellectual property should be protected for a reasonable period of time. I dont think DMCA is always reasonable.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

More freedom in the EU.

The European Union has ruled that ham and cheese sliced outside the region where it is grown just won't taste the same.

The EU's highest court has ruled in the case of northern Italy's famous salty Parma ham.

It said Parma ham and the region's gourmet Grana Padano cheese could only be sliced or grated for pre-packaging in the regions where they were made.

This is a Brand/marketing issue. Though it may seem petty, the makers of the product did not want their product marketed in this fashion, so now they have the legal protection to market it as they see fit.

Actually this goes pretty far beyond brand/marketing. This is regional protection of a product. Parma ham can only be made in Parma. There is nothing special about pigs in Parma. I have no problem with protecting how parma ham is made or having quality standards for Parma ham, but saying it can only be made in a given region is downright stupid.

If it wasn't made in Parma, then it wouldn't be Parma Ham, would it? This is simply businesses protecting their products. If you think this is stupid, can you share your opinion of the DMCA?

And it is not champaign if it not made in France. Apparently the EU has a list of several hundred items like this that they want to give such protection. I think this is foolish. If they want to patent a process, I have no problem with it. Patents do expire after a reasonable time. The intellectual property rights of making parma ham and champaign have long since expired.

As far as DMCA, I do beleive that intellectual property should be protected for a reasonable period of time. I dont think DMCA is always reasonable.

There would be a difference between Parma Ham which would be made and prepared in Parma and Parma Style Ham which can be made anywhere after the fashion in parma. I believe such customs (if not laws) exist here too. When I buy astro yoghurt, its package says "Balkan Style Yoghurt" indicating clearly that while it may be like Balkan Yoghurt, it is not Balkan Yoghurt.

Now, back to the point I was trying to make. If you use this case as an argument that the EU is oppressive, then the US would be much worse.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

More freedom in the EU.

The European Union has ruled that ham and cheese sliced outside the region where it is grown just won't taste the same.

The EU's highest court has ruled in the case of northern Italy's famous salty Parma ham.

It said Parma ham and the region's gourmet Grana Padano cheese could only be sliced or grated for pre-packaging in the regions where they were made.

This is a Brand/marketing issue. Though it may seem petty, the makers of the product did not want their product marketed in this fashion, so now they have the legal protection to market it as they see fit.

Actually this goes pretty far beyond brand/marketing. This is regional protection of a product. Parma ham can only be made in Parma. There is nothing special about pigs in Parma. I have no problem with protecting how parma ham is made or having quality standards for Parma ham, but saying it can only be made in a given region is downright stupid.

If it wasn't made in Parma, then it wouldn't be Parma Ham, would it? This is simply businesses protecting their products. If you think this is stupid, can you share your opinion of the DMCA?

And it is not champaign if it not made in France. Apparently the EU has a list of several hundred items like this that they want to give such protection. I think this is foolish. If they want to patent a process, I have no problem with it. Patents do expire after a reasonable time. The intellectual property rights of making parma ham and champaign have long since expired.

As far as DMCA, I do beleive that intellectual property should be protected for a reasonable period of time. I dont think DMCA is always reasonable.

There would be a difference between Parma Ham which would be made and prepared in Parma and Parma Style Ham which can be made anywhere after the fashion in parma. I believe such customs (if not laws) exist here too. When I buy astro yoghurt, its package says "Balkan Style Yoghurt" indicating clearly that while it may be like Balkan Yoghurt, it is not Balkan Yoghurt.

Now, back to the point I was trying to make. If you use this case as an argument that the EU is oppressive, then the US would be much worse.

What you have here is trademarking and the US does respect that. We do have a process for foreign entitys to trade mark products. Similar products can be made with little restriction. However the EU has over 600 food items that it wants to protect. Are you ready to be forced to import real feta from greece and parmesan from italy? or will your locally produced feta style cheese be good enough. Many of these names have become part of language and cant practically be protected anymore.

 

[Chobits]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
the US, canada, and AUstralia should merge to form the antiEuropeanUnion

Oceania and Euroasia? Then China and India can team up to form Eastasia.

Won't it be a wonderful world then?

Are you alluding to 1984?

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

More freedom in the EU.

The European Union has ruled that ham and cheese sliced outside the region where it is grown just won't taste the same.

The EU's highest court has ruled in the case of northern Italy's famous salty Parma ham.

It said Parma ham and the region's gourmet Grana Padano cheese could only be sliced or grated for pre-packaging in the regions where they were made.

This is a Brand/marketing issue. Though it may seem petty, the makers of the product did not want their product marketed in this fashion, so now they have the legal protection to market it as they see fit.

Actually this goes pretty far beyond brand/marketing. This is regional protection of a product. Parma ham can only be made in Parma. There is nothing special about pigs in Parma. I have no problem with protecting how parma ham is made or having quality standards for Parma ham, but saying it can only be made in a given region is downright stupid.

If it wasn't made in Parma, then it wouldn't be Parma Ham, would it? This is simply businesses protecting their products. If you think this is stupid, can you share your opinion of the DMCA?

And it is not champaign if it not made in France. Apparently the EU has a list of several hundred items like this that they want to give such protection. I think this is foolish. If they want to patent a process, I have no problem with it. Patents do expire after a reasonable time. The intellectual property rights of making parma ham and champaign have long since expired.

As far as DMCA, I do beleive that intellectual property should be protected for a reasonable period of time. I dont think DMCA is always reasonable.

There would be a difference between Parma Ham which would be made and prepared in Parma and Parma Style Ham which can be made anywhere after the fashion in parma. I believe such customs (if not laws) exist here too. When I buy astro yoghurt, its package says "Balkan Style Yoghurt" indicating clearly that while it may be like Balkan Yoghurt, it is not Balkan Yoghurt.

Now, back to the point I was trying to make. If you use this case as an argument that the EU is oppressive, then the US would be much worse.

What you have here is trademarking and the US does respect that. We do have a process for foreign entitys to trade mark products. Similar products can be made with little restriction. However the EU has over 600 food items that it wants to protect. Are you ready to be forced to import real feta from greece and parmesan from italy? or will your locally produced feta style cheese be good enough. Many of these names have become part of language and cant practically be protected anymore.

I eat lots of feta and the bulk of it is imported from Bulgaria, because I like bulgarian feta. When I got to the store to buy some bulgarian feta, it damn well better be made in Bulgaria, else I'll be quite mad.

The point is that when a local producer makes feta, he has no right to call it Bulgarian feta, instead he can call it Bulgarian Style Feta or Canadian Feta.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

More freedom in the EU.

The European Union has ruled that ham and cheese sliced outside the region where it is grown just won't taste the same.

The EU's highest court has ruled in the case of northern Italy's famous salty Parma ham.

It said Parma ham and the region's gourmet Grana Padano cheese could only be sliced or grated for pre-packaging in the regions where they were made.

This is a Brand/marketing issue. Though it may seem petty, the makers of the product did not want their product marketed in this fashion, so now they have the legal protection to market it as they see fit.

Actually this goes pretty far beyond brand/marketing. This is regional protection of a product. Parma ham can only be made in Parma. There is nothing special about pigs in Parma. I have no problem with protecting how parma ham is made or having quality standards for Parma ham, but saying it can only be made in a given region is downright stupid.

If it wasn't made in Parma, then it wouldn't be Parma Ham, would it? This is simply businesses protecting their products. If you think this is stupid, can you share your opinion of the DMCA?

And it is not champaign if it not made in France. Apparently the EU has a list of several hundred items like this that they want to give such protection. I think this is foolish. If they want to patent a process, I have no problem with it. Patents do expire after a reasonable time. The intellectual property rights of making parma ham and champaign have long since expired.

As far as DMCA, I do beleive that intellectual property should be protected for a reasonable period of time. I dont think DMCA is always reasonable.

There would be a difference between Parma Ham which would be made and prepared in Parma and Parma Style Ham which can be made anywhere after the fashion in parma. I believe such customs (if not laws) exist here too. When I buy astro yoghurt, its package says "Balkan Style Yoghurt" indicating clearly that while it may be like Balkan Yoghurt, it is not Balkan Yoghurt.

Now, back to the point I was trying to make. If you use this case as an argument that the EU is oppressive, then the US would be much worse.

What you have here is trademarking and the US does respect that. We do have a process for foreign entitys to trade mark products. Similar products can be made with little restriction. However the EU has over 600 food items that it wants to protect. Are you ready to be forced to import real feta from greece and parmesan from italy? or will your locally produced feta style cheese be good enough. Many of these names have become part of language and cant practically be protected anymore.

I eat lots of feta and the bulk of it is imported from Bulgaria, because I like bulgarian feta. When I got to the store to buy some bulgarian feta, it damn well better be made in Bulgaria, else I'll be quite mad.

The point is that when a local producer makes feta, he has no right to call it Bulgarian feta, instead he can call it Bulgarian Style Feta or Canadian Feta.

My point is, if the EU has its way Feta can only come Greece. All others feta makers will need to come up with a new name. The same goes for hundreds of other products.

 

[dpm]

My point is, if the EU has its way Feta can only come Greece. All others feta makers will need to come up with a new name. The same goes for hundreds of other products.

I think you've got a bit confused. The point of the PDO legislation (Protected Designation of Origin) is that if something is famous for as a regional speciality, and the customer would think that it came from that region, then anything labelled thus *should* come from that region.

So when you buy Champagne, you expect it to come from the Champagne region of france. Or if you buy Parma Ham, you'd expect it to come from Parma. These are not generic terms, like "Chinese food" but specific designations, like Newcastle Brown Ale (also protected).

However, if you want to make something the same style, but locally to you, well, you can call it, for example, Parma Style Ham. Because it is. But not Parma Ham. Because its not from Parma. This isn't exactly evidence of the jackboot of fascist dictatorship

The biggest test and question to this legislation came recently, when a british supermarket bought pigs from *near* parma, and then treated, processed and packaged the meat in Britain. Is that Parma Ham? The courts said that since a consumer is paying a premium for the local speciality of Parma Ham, and the preperation of the Ham is a big part of this, then the consumer has a right to expect that this process was done in Parma. Link.

Hope this makes it a bit clearer.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: dpm

My point is, if the EU has its way Feta can only come Greece. All others feta makers will need to come up with a new name. The same goes for hundreds of other products.

I think you've got a bit confused. The point of the PDO legislation (Protected Designation of Origin) is that if something is famous for as a regional speciality, and the customer would think that it came from that region, then anything labelled thus *should* come from that region.

So when you buy Champagne, you expect it to come from the Champagne region of france. Or if you buy Parma Ham, you'd expect it to come from Parma. These are not generic terms, like "Chinese food" but specific designations, like Newcastle Brown Ale (also protected).

However, if you want to make something the same style, but locally to you, well, you can call it, for example, Parma Style Ham. Because it is. But not Parma Ham. Because its not from Parma. This isn't exactly evidence of the jackboot of fascist dictatorship

The biggest test and question to this legislation came recently, when a british supermarket bought pigs from *near* parma, and then treated, processed and packaged the meat in Britain. Is that Parma Ham? The courts said that since a consumer is paying a premium for the local speciality of Parma Ham, and the preperation of the Ham is a big part of this, then the consumer has a right to expect that this process was done in Parma. <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://europa.eu.int/rapid/start/cgi/guesten.ksh?p_action.gettxt=gt&doc=CJE/03/42|0|RAPID&lg=EN&display=" target=blank>Link.</A>

Hope this makes it a bit clearer.

I dont think i am on the one confused

But authentic products seem to be winning most of these food fights. The British will be forced to rename their chocolate. Raw-milk cheeses have been approved. Next year, the Danes will have to stop using the term "feta."

The EU "has helped protect us," says Mr. Bertozzi of the Parmesan consortium. "Before, anybody outside of Italy could abuse our product. Now they are breaking European law

linkage

 

[dpm]

Thanks for the linkage.
However, to respond to your points in bold

From your source;
"while real Greek feta comes from goat's milk, the Danish version is made with cow's milk". So its not what the consumer expects - its not what he pays a premium for. It'd be like selling a nonalcoholic beer, but still labelling it "beer" or something.

And as far as the British chocolate story, well that was a scare story promoted (famously) by a europhobic British tabloid. I'm British, and I'm just about to tuck into some of our lovely chocolate... Don't worry, its still going to be called chocolate.

The full story behind that was that certain European chocolate manufacturers (naming no nestles, um, I mean names) were worried about losing market share to a certain british chocolate company (British chocolate is traditionally made quite differently to mainland european chocolate). So their lobbying group tried to use European food labelling legislation (different legislation to the PDO law that you were talking about) to stop British chocolate being labelled as chocolate. Their arguments didn't cut much ice with the European Commission, and they got shot down.

 

[SickBeast]

Keep in mind that this poll is biased.

 

[LeadMagnet]

SickBeast - Keep in mind that this poll is biased.

How should I have phrased the questions to help remove the bias and still get the info I was looking for?

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

More freedom in the EU.

The European Union has ruled that ham and cheese sliced outside the region where it is grown just won't taste the same.

The EU's highest court has ruled in the case of northern Italy's famous salty Parma ham.

It said Parma ham and the region's gourmet Grana Padano cheese could only be sliced or grated for pre-packaging in the regions where they were made.

This is a Brand/marketing issue. Though it may seem petty, the makers of the product did not want their product marketed in this fashion, so now they have the legal protection to market it as they see fit.

Actually this goes pretty far beyond brand/marketing. This is regional protection of a product. Parma ham can only be made in Parma. There is nothing special about pigs in Parma. I have no problem with protecting how parma ham is made or having quality standards for Parma ham, but saying it can only be made in a given region is downright stupid.

No u just didnt understand how regional specialties/delicatessis work. You can make your own Parma ham just as they do in Parma only dont call it Parma ham. It is the same with many products. Many ppl make sparkling vine yet only the one made in Champagne is to be called Champagner even if the others are made the same. You cannot buy a Bordeaux that comes from California either - it just isn't a Bordeaux. Got it?