EU Constitution's second Draft is Published

[tnitsuj]

Excerpts from Draft

Big step for the future of Europe. Calls for a single non-rotating European President elected by the Parliament, a EU Foriegn Minister, and a common economic, security, and foreign affairs policy.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Excerpts from Draft

Big step for the future of Europe.

Whys that. I don't understand nations willing to give up thier sovernty. To what gain?

Sounds like a girls scout picknick

 

[IamDavid]

Never, ever, ever will be enacted by Europe. NEVER. Neat idea though.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Excerpts from Draft

Big step for the future of Europe.

Whys that. I don't understand nations willing to give up thier sovernty. To what gain?

Sounds like a girls scout picknick

They said that about the Euro too, but that turned out okay. Brought all those countries monetary and economic policies in line. Forced massive budget cuts and fiscal responsibility even among the smaller emerging countries. Only GB and I think one other country is holding out, and that can't last if they want to remain relevant.

 

[tnitsuj]

In many ways it is a mirror of the process that brought about our constitution and republic with Federalists and Anti-Fedaralists jostling for changes.

 

[IamDavid]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Excerpts from Draft

Big step for the future of Europe.

Whys that. I don't understand nations willing to give up thier sovernty. To what gain?

Sounds like a girls scout picknick

They said that about the Euro too, but that turned out okay. Brought all those countries monetary and economic policies in line. Forced massive budget cuts and fiscal responsibility even among the smaller emerging countries. Only GB and I think one other country is holding out, and that can't last if they want to remain relevant.

lol, GB remain relevant.. Last time I checked they are about the only revelant country in Europe. They will never give up there sovereignty. It would be total asinine to do so.

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Excerpts from Draft

Big step for the future of Europe.

Whys that. I don't understand nations willing to give up thier sovernty. To what gain?

Sounds like a girls scout picknick

That's what they said in 1776 too.

 

[Schadenfroh]

1 euro president elected
2 kills off all the european leaders unwilling to submit
3 euro president gets a bullet in the head
4 dude walks around saying good things about the european president that can do fire and stuf
5 dude that walked around calling down fire and stuff heals the euro president of his lethal wound
666
7 euro president negotiates peace in the middle east
8 people start to worship the euro president
9 euro president starts having random executions on people not willing to worship him
10 gigantic revolt
11 revolt crushed
12 israel invaded by euro presedint
13 guy that everyone says would never come back comes back and captures euro presidet
14 euro president and the dude that walked around praising him get to go to a bbq
euro presidents future career from beging to end

 

[JellyBaby]

GB remain relevant.. Last time I checked they are about the only revelant country in Europe. They will never give up there sovereignty. It would be total asinine to do so.

By "they" do you mean the Brits or Blair and his ambition?

Populations among European nations are growing slowly, becoming stagnant or in some cases shrinking. Could it be, in order to continue to expand government their leaders see the only option as unity? An eventual common tax base from which to draw? Thinking about all that power and influence might corrupt even the best among us...

 

[Piano Man]

If this works, the EU will become much more powerful than the United States.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Excerpts from Draft

Big step for the future of Europe. Calls for a single non-rotating European President elected by the Parliament, a EU Foriegn Minister, and a common economic, security, and foreign affairs policy.

I would be interested in how they handle state representation. It currently appears that France and Germany want to drive the EU bus.

 

[Dragnov]

Whys that. I don't understand nations willing to give up thier sovernty. To what gain?

Sounds like a girls scout picknick

To balance power/better compete with the United States. Thers no purpose in being a smaller, insignificant state. Your voice is never heard or cared about. Look at the situation with France and Germany (who happen to be trying to become the primary leaders of the EU) and the situation with Iraq. They were for the most part, ignored.

Britain isn't holding out of the EU because they care so much for sovereignity IMO. Rather that they believe in being the leader of a EU that is more pro U.S. By siding with the U.S. with the war in Iraq, they compete with the conteding powers of France and Germany, setting a pathway in leading the more pro U.S. Eastern European countries.

 

[B00ne]

Dont u worry about Germany,we are never to have more voting power (despite 30+% more citizen) than France (or GB). Germany is not driving the bus, we are just the cow that is milked every day (happily it seems).

About GB and the EU: Dunno what to say about them, but many ppl feel GB should leave the EU, their only business is to rake in money from Brussels and block everything else especially when it come to democratizing the EU processes... Don't know what to think

 

[Dari]

The EU is a hodge podge of different nations coming together to better compete against the US? If the euro is any indication, they are in for a very rough ride with stupidity initially carrying the day. As the euro has shown, a common policy for very different nations will be asinine at best and catastrophic at worst. Germany is in danger of following japan down the deflation while the smaller nations have relatively higher inflation. Couple that with the utterly stupid rigid labor system of socialist europe; the dumb CAP policy so loved by the lazy french, the universally condemned Stability and Growth pact; and an influx of 10 new relatively poorer eastern european countries, and continental europe is heading for a political/economic roller-coaster unseen in history. If anything, now is the time for any interested gov't (especially the US) to leverage its power. If you ask me, the EU is doing too much at once. A lot of the euro hold-outs were smart to take a wait-and-see approach.

 

[Bigdude]

Originally posted by: Piano Man
If this works, the EU will become much more powerful than the United States.

Impossible! If all the World united against the USA, we could defeat them economically and militarily!

 

[dpm]

Originally posted by: Bigdude

Originally posted by: Piano Man If this works, the EU will become much more powerful than the United States.

Impossible! If all the World united against the USA, we could defeat them economically and militarily!

You know, I'm really not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. bah for the first day back at work.

 

[Nitemare]

Did they mention who will be the dictator? also what rights and freedoms the socialist governments will take from the freer nations?

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Did they mention who will be the dictator? also what rights and freedoms the socialist governments will take from the freer nations?

Actually if anything, joining the EU gurantees certain rights. A good example is Turkey, one of the biggest impediments to Turkey joining the EU is its less than stellar human rights record. The Turkish governenment will have to make serious changes in order to ensure basic human rights prior to Turkey joining.

 

[tnitsuj]

Double post sorry.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Did they mention who will be the dictator? also what rights and freedoms the socialist governments will take from the freer nations?

Actually if anything, joining the EU gurantees certain rights. A good example is Turkey, one of the biggest impediments to Turkey joining the EU is its less than stellar human rights record. The Turkish governenment will have to make serious changes in order to ensure basic human rights prior to Turkey joining.

The UN needs something like that

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Piano Man
If this works, the EU will become much more powerful than the United States.

Hehe...no. If you mean military, nope. The US spends more on its military than the rest of the world combined. If you mean economics, nope. Europe is united in economics right now, and while they are giving the US a run for its money, "much more powerful" is not the phrase I would use. They would certainly have the potential to become equals though.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Piano Man
If this works, the EU will become much more powerful than the United States.

Hehe...no. If you mean military, nope. The US spends more on its military than the rest of the world combined. If you mean economics, nope. Europe is united in economics right now, and while they are giving the US a run for its money, "much more powerful" is not the phrase I would use. They would certainly have the potential to become equals though.

equals is a lot better than being second string.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

Whys that. I don't understand nations willing to give up thier sovernty. To what gain?

Sounds like a girls scout picknick

To balance power/better compete with the United States. Thers no purpose in being a smaller, insignificant state. Your voice is never heard or cared about. Look at the situation with France and Germany (who happen to be trying to become the primary leaders of the EU) and the situation with Iraq. They were for the most part, ignored.

Britain isn't holding out of the EU because they care so much for sovereignity IMO. Rather that they believe in being the leader of a EU that is more pro U.S. By siding with the U.S. with the war in Iraq, they compete with the conteding powers of France and Germany, setting a pathway in leading the more pro U.S. Eastern European countries.

Well IMO I just don't see it happening. W/O a strong military, the will to use it, and economy to support it they will always be a bit player. This might sound American-centric but look at history. We are basically are the UN. All enforcement must be done by us or it does'nt get done. So instead the EU will be like CHina, a big populus "state", whos voice is never heard or cared about. GB is a mutt along for the scraps and Swizerland, well, they seem to be unique as the worlds bank so neither will join this Union which can only hurt.

 

[Fencer128]

To balance power/better compete with the United States. Thers no purpose in being a smaller, insignificant state. Your voice is never heard or cared about. Look at the situation with France and Germany (who happen to be trying to become the primary leaders of the EU) and the situation with Iraq. They were for the most part, ignored.

Britain isn't holding out of the EU because they care so much for sovereignity IMO. Rather that they believe in being the leader of a EU that is more pro U.S. By siding with the U.S. with the war in Iraq, they compete with the conteding powers of France and Germany, setting a pathway in leading the more pro U.S. Eastern European countries.

Not quite sure I follow your statement in bold. The UK is in the EU. Not the euro, sure - but that is a political/historical/pride point of view and doesn't really have any bearing on our US relations.

If we hesitate in devolving more power to the EU it is because we are afraid of what will happen once we lose that control to others - nothing to do with the fact we want a more pro-US EU.

Cheers,

Andy