Etrade: "Bankruptcy risk cannot be ruled out" - Citi analysts

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: jjsole
Cnbc reported this morning that etrade is "in talks to sell all or portions of itself".

That being said, how much of a premium do you think it would sell at vs. current stock prices?

It's been an $18-$22 stock for years.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Sweet!!!!!

Picked-up 3000 more on tuesday at 4. 9000 in total.

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
$5.23....

Damn...I'm in for 1000 shares at $4.15. Wondering how long I should hold on to this. Take my money and run, or hope this thing can get back up into the $15-$20 range again...

Put a stop loss in at around 4.80 or 4.85 to lock in your profits should it re-tank, and adjust it accordingly if it continues to go up. Stop losses of course won't garantee you against an after hours bad announcement, but it will help you in regular trading time. You gotta make a decision if you want to be trading, or investing. The stock is still very volatile right now, and can plunge just as quickly as it went back up. The only easy money to be had, is if you have a set gameplan and aren't going to be trading on emotions like some have done in this thread. Otherwise, this can be a deathtrap.

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: jjsole
Cnbc reported this morning that etrade is "in talks to sell all or portions of itself".

That being said, how much of a premium do you think it would sell at vs. current stock prices?

It's been an $18-$22 stock for years.

The recent announcements have shown this was way overvalued. Usually, a good premium is offered when there are several suitors for the company, and it's a money making machine. E-trade is far from a money maker right now, however does have significant assets and data / clients which would be a great addition to another company either looking to open up or expend their broker business. It will fetch a premium, but a premium from the current price rather then it's previous valuation. This is all speculative and has no merit yet though; this talk always happens when a company is in trouble.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: vi_edit
$5.23....

Damn...I'm in for 1000 shares at $4.15. Wondering how long I should hold on to this. Take my money and run, or hope this thing can get back up into the $15-$20 range again...

Put a stop loss in at around 4.80 or 4.85 to lock in your profits should it re-tank, and adjust it accordingly if it continues to go up. Stop losses of course won't garantee you against an after hours bad announcement, but it will help you in regular trading time. You gotta make a decision if you want to be trading, or investing. The stock is still very volatile right now, and can plunge just as quickly as it went back up. The only easy money to be had, is if you have a set gameplan and aren't going to be trading on emotions like some have done in this thread. Otherwise, this can be a deathtrap.

I actually put a stop on it at $5.00 when it blew through $5.25 and was hovering around a $5.45 trading high.

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

I actually put a stop on it at $5.00 when it blew through $5.25 and was hovering around a $5.45 trading high.

You since got schtopped out then?

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: vi_edit

I actually put a stop on it at $5.00 when it blew through $5.25 and was hovering around a $5.45 trading high.

You since got schtopped out then?

Yup.

Missed out on about $450 from earlier trading highs this morning.

 

[thomsbrain]

I'm all out at 5.27 on a limit order. Took a loss on my first batch, but took a bigger gain on my second batch, for an overall modest profit. I'm off for calmer waters... for now.

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: vi_edit

I actually put a stop on it at $5.00 when it blew through $5.25 and was hovering around a $5.45 trading high.

You since got schtopped out then?

Yup.

Missed out on about $450 from earlier trading highs this morning.

It happens. That's why I normally would put a stop limit at a bit lower level, to avoid those fluctuations that are meant specifically to steal people's shares on stop losses. All those stop losses are visible for others to see, and will be scooped up by traders looking for some quick cheap shares.

At least you came out of it with a nice quick profit.

 

[Slew Foot]

A think the overall market is due for a bounce through early December, then as relatively poor retail figures come in , youll see the market slump towards the end of the year. Lots of day to day variability though.

 

[ponyo]

Just got back from work and see the stock jumped nicely today on the sale rumor. I put a limit sale order for half my shares at $5 this morning before I left for work. I wasn't expecting to get hit today so it was a nice suprise. I got the buck and quarter I wanted and that was my exit point going into the trade. I'm going to keep the remaining 1k shares and let it run for little longer. Stop will be placed at the original $5 exit point as to protect the original profit.

Profit from this trade will be used for Disney World vacation next month for my daughter. So thanks Etrade for the vacation money. Now I need to make some money for the Christmas presents.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Still holding onto my 9k shares.

 

[JS80]

you guys who have stop loss orders are noobs. market makers will just slam the bid to take out all the stops to fill the influx of buy orders. noobie trading 101.

 

[intogamer]

Originally posted by: JS80
you guys who have stop loss orders are noobs. market makers will just slam the bid to take out all the stops to fill the influx of buy orders. noobie trading 101.

JS80 for finance moderator

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: intogamer

Originally posted by: JS80
you guys who have stop loss orders are noobs. market makers will just slam the bid to take out all the stops to fill the influx of buy orders. noobie trading 101.

JS80 for finance moderator

hah seconded!

seriously though, stop orders for this type of stock is not advised. market maker manipulation happens and one of the noobiest mistakes everyone makes is putting a stop loss order on a stock that trades heavily and is volatile. if you're going to trade a stock like this you HAVE to do constant surveillance. if you want some sense of security take a small position or hedge your position with options.

 

[0roo0roo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LldUSDXh_1k

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: JS80
you guys who have stop loss orders are noobs. market makers will just slam the bid to take out all the stops to fill the influx of buy orders. noobie trading 101.

Originally posted by: JS80

i got stopped out at 5.70...

There's a place for stop orders, even in stocks like this imo. They can't be aggressive tho because the intraday up and down volatility can easily trip them like you mentioned.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: JS80
you guys who have stop loss orders are noobs. market makers will just slam the bid to take out all the stops to fill the influx of buy orders. noobie trading 101.

I forgot you're the master trader. :roll:
Let me guess. You rode your 6k shares you purchased at 4.8 all the way down to 3.68 before you luckily got bailed out today.

I'll keep my stop, thankyou. If it gets hit, be it. That's the nature of the beast. One of my rule is to never let a gain turn into a loss if you can avoid it. I don't need maximum profit on each trade. I also don't let my trade turn into an investment because of a loss. I go into a trade with idea of risk/reward and exit points up and down.

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: KarmaPolice
I think Anand could use a investor/finance forum.

seconded. this threads been really interesting.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: JS80
you guys who have stop loss orders are noobs. market makers will just slam the bid to take out all the stops to fill the influx of buy orders. noobie trading 101.

Originally posted by: JS80

i got stopped out at 5.70...

There's a place for stop orders, even in stocks like this imo. They can't be aggressive tho because the intraday up and down volatility can easily trip them like you mentioned.

hah i have a good excuse for that...not that i care to explain myself but instead of doing a limit sell, I did a stop limit sell. What I'm talking about is buying a stock at $5 (for example) and putting a stop at $4.25. When i put that limit in the stock it was a sell move, not a defensive protection move.

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: JS80
you guys who have stop loss orders are noobs. market makers will just slam the bid to take out all the stops to fill the influx of buy orders. noobie trading 101.

I forgot you're the master trader. :roll:
Let me guess. You rode your 6k shares you purchased at 4.8 all the way down to 3.68 before you luckily got bailed out today.

I'll keep my stop, thankyou. If it gets hit, be it. That's the nature of the beast. One of my rule is to never let a gain turn into a loss if you can avoid it. I don't need maximum profit on each trade. I also don't let my trade turn into an investment because of a loss. I go into a trade with idea of risk/reward and exit points up and down.

When did i ever claim to be a master trader? I'm pointing out people putting stop losses without knowing predatory market maker techniques. You think i was naked with those 6k shares? I wrote covered call position in case the stock dropped. Not only did I close my covered call position when it dropped I wrote naked puts when the stock dropped sub 4.

So I got bailed out huh? The drop to $3.68 was a clear play by traders and MMs to scare off noobie investors and screw them out of their stop loss orders. This is why I wrote covered calls to protect against such a play. If I were a noob I would have put in a stop loss at $4 and gotten my shares stolen.

Instead of dismissing someone's opinion, why don't you filter out for the bullshitters and think about techniques of other traders and how it might make your trading game better.

As a side note, the reason I wrote that assholish comment was that I had three noobie friends who put in stops way below their purchase price on this stock after I specifically told them to NOT do it and told them EXACTLY what was going to happen.

 

[ponyo]

JS, my trading game is fine. I'll keep doing what works for me. The only bullshitter I see in this thread is you. No offense of course.

 

[Miramonti]

Etrade Sale May Hinge on Mortgage Portfolio

By DENNIS K. BERMAN, SUSANNE CRAIG and MATTHEW KARNITSCHNIG
November 26, 2007; Page A2

As E*Trade Financial Corp. moves closer to being sold, prospective suitors for the company are haggling over the value of its deteriorating mortgage portfolio, people familiar with the discussions say.

E*Trade, while best known for its discount brokerage operations, has made a big move into home mortgages, lines of credit and mortgages securities in recent years. As the housing market has declined, the value of mortgage securities has plummeted, forcing E*Trade to seek a buyer or an infusion of capital.

As of Sept. 30, the company's mortgage portfolio, including home loans and home-equity lines, was valued at $29.3 billion, and the company owns mortgage-backed securities valued at $12.4 billion. To date, it has announced $197 million in pretax write-downs on its securities portfolio, and it has set aside $237.8 million in loan-loss provisions.

Rivals looking at the books in recent days, believed to be TD Ameritrade Holding Corp. and Charles Schwab Corp., are worried that some of the assets haven't been marked to current market values, these people say. While the mortgages and related securities may not be as imperiled as the current market suggests, any buyer would need to value the assets on a mark-to-market basis.

E*Trade stock has plunged 77% in six months. The root of the company's troubles has been E*Trade Bank, which buys and originates mortgages and has acquired mortgage-backed securities. E*Trade has issued four warnings about the falling value of these assets. In mid-November, the company announced that losses would stop it from meeting its 2007 earnings target and that it wouldn't provide a new target, given market conditions.

That announcement sent E*Trade's stock down sharply, to $3.55, and prompted one stock analyst to suggest there could be a run on the bank, which the company has disputed. Friday, the stock closed at $5.33, up $1.07, or 25%, in Nasdaq Stock Market trading after CNBC reported the company was in serious negotiations with rivals to sell itself. Friday's price put the company's market capitalization at $2.28 billion. The stock traded as high as $26.08 in January.

Looming over any sale is the role of federal regulators, primarily the Office of Thrift Supervision, which oversees E*Trade's bank. It is unknown what stance the OTS is taking in the situation, although people involved in the process say it could end up having a critical role.

OTS could, for instance, demand that most of the proceeds of a sale be injected back into E*Trade's bank, leaving little left over for E*Trade's shareholders. Or regulators could request that E*Trade find a buyer that best insulates the struggling mortgage portfolio from the bank depositors.

 

[ponyo]

Noobie here got stopped out at 5 this morning on the remaining shares.

Had fun and made little profit. What more can you ask for. I'm looking forward to taking my daughter to Disney World.

Good luck to all remaining long or shorts!

 

[JS80]

My QID and QQQQ puts propping up my portfolio. Shorted FSLR at 220 this morning...I hope market crashes this week. I need the money to buy Christmakah presents and pay for a wedding.

 

[gururu2]

man this stock is a nightmare. you can either lose big or win big. no in betweens