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Ethanol Production

C

CycloWizard

Lifer
I have a few questions for everyone who supports the usage of ethanol.

1. What will the primary uses of ethanol be when it's fully developed?
2. What do you see as the benefit over alternatives?
3. What do you see as the drawbacks over alternatives?

It's hard to have any sort of discussion about its efficacy unless this context is established.
 
Being against ethanol is a little silly.

Being against subsidized and/or legislated ethanol, creating even more distortions in the agriculture market than we have already, is perfectly reasonable.
 
cellulosic ethanol is the key to our immediate energy future. after years of R&D, 2009 will be the groundbreaking year for the technology. forget about wasting corn for ethanol, we will be producing ethanol from what has historically been waste and leftovers.
 
Originally posted by: alien42
cellulosic ethanol is the key to our immediate energy future. after years of R&D, 2009 will be the groundbreaking year for the technology. forget about wasting corn for ethanol, we will be producing ethanol from what has historically been waste and leftovers.
Click to expand...
Have you seen the guy distilling ethanol from kudzu? I found that to be an interesting source, considering how rapid and widespread its growth is.
 
Originally posted by: alien42
cellulosic ethanol is the key to our immediate energy future. after years of R&D, 2009 will be the groundbreaking year for the technology. forget about wasting corn for ethanol, we will be producing ethanol from what has historically been waste and leftovers.
Click to expand...

Yep.
 
So no one can actually answer the three simple questions I asked? If you think ethanol is very important to the future of energy in this nation, then you should be prepared to answer such simple questions. If you don't think ethanol is worth anything, then you should equally be able to answer the questions. The election is over folks - try to return to using the rest of your brain rather than just regurgitating talking points.
 
1. Passenger vehicles
2. Renewable, domestic, and carbon neutral
3. Lower energy content than gasoline, will not be able to replace diesel applications
 
Until Electircal Vehicles or Hydrogen Powered Vehicles can be viable All Purpose transportation, I think Ethanol/BioDiesel are really the only 2(together) choices the US and many other Nations have for total or near total Energy Independence. So the real issue may come down to how much Energy Independence one wants/needs.
 
1) Ethanol is used for drinking, for solvent purposes, for animal feed, for cleaning, fuel, etc. I assume you want us to talk about fuel, but I think that is a very limited viewpoint on the world.

2) Ethanol is far better for getting drunk than say methanol. Methanol causes severe health problems.

3) Ethanol just doesn't dissolve things as well as chemicals like acetone. Plus, acetone dries faster.

Or, did you want me to answer #2 and #3 for fuel usage only? If so, you really should put it in your original post. The main benefit of alcohol as a fuel is that it takes energy from the sun or from waste and turns it into kinetic energy of our vehicles. The main drawback of ethanol as a fuel is that AT THE MOMENT we don't mass produce it in an efficient mannor. Right now, you get just a bit more energy from ethanol derived out of corn than the energy you put into it (planting, fertilizing, watering, harvesting, processing, distilling, transporting, etc.) Thus, corn right now is not a good ethanol source. But, there are plenty of other better sources and ethanol from corn keeps becoming more efficient.
 
Originally posted by: alien42
cellulosic ethanol is the key to our immediate energy future. after years of R&D, 2009 will be the groundbreaking year for the technology. forget about wasting corn for ethanol, we will be producing ethanol from what has historically been waste and leftovers.
Click to expand...

LOL, where do you guys come up with this stuff?

 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I have a few questions for everyone who supports the usage of ethanol.

1. What will the primary uses of ethanol be when it's fully developed?
2. What do you see as the benefit over alternatives?
3. What do you see as the drawbacks over alternatives?

It's hard to have any sort of discussion about its efficacy unless this context is established.
Click to expand...

1. Passenger cars
2. Renewable
3. Uses too much water to produce; not viable if made from corn (which this country has a lot of), maybe viable if made from sugar but there are limited areas in this country suitable for growing sugar.
 
Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Originally posted by: alien42
cellulosic ethanol is the key to our immediate energy future. after years of R&D, 2009 will be the groundbreaking year for the technology. forget about wasting corn for ethanol, we will be producing ethanol from what has historically been waste and leftovers.
Click to expand...

LOL, where do you guys come up with this stuff?
Click to expand...

Actually, it's true. The problem, at the moment, is it currently costs too much to do (it's around $6 per gallon, I think), but scientists are working to reduce costs. If they get it low enough, the benefits are quite good. It reduces waste and CO2. The use of ethanol significantly reduces the production of CO2. The production of ethanol from corn, unfortunately, offsets it though.

Until fuel cells are made cost effective and the infrastructure is in place to deliver hydrogen, ethanol offers a nice buffer. With only a few minor modifications, any gasoline-powered car can use it.
 
Originally posted by: dullard
1) Ethanol is used for drinking, for solvent purposes, for animal feed, for cleaning, fuel, etc. I assume you want us to talk about fuel, but I think that is a very limited viewpoint on the world.

2) Ethanol is far better for getting drunk than say methanol. Methanol causes severe health problems.

3) Ethanol just doesn't dissolve things as well as chemicals like acetone. Plus, acetone dries faster.

Or, did you want me to answer #2 and #3 for fuel usage only? If so, you really should put it in your original post. The main benefit of alcohol as a fuel is that it takes energy from the sun or from waste and turns it into kinetic energy of our vehicles. The main drawback of ethanol as a fuel is that AT THE MOMENT we don't mass produce it in an efficient mannor. Right now, you get just a bit more energy from ethanol derived out of corn than the energy you put into it (planting, fertilizing, watering, harvesting, processing, distilling, transporting, etc.) Thus, corn right now is not a good ethanol source. But, there are plenty of other better sources and ethanol from corn keeps becoming more efficient.
Click to expand...
If I wanted to restrict the discussion to fuels, then I wouldn't have asked #1. It seems that a lot of people here have heard lots of talking points about ethanol, but don't know any substance. Surprise, surprise. I could have asked what the RON of ethanol was, but only about two people would have even known what an RON was, much less what ethanol's RON actually is. I see lots of people championing ethanol because it's been in the media rather than for any substantial reasons. Perhaps if you'd spend more time contributing and less time trying to be a condescending know-it-all, you could help change all that. Just a suggestion.
 
Ethanol has a high octane rating, 116. That makes it ideal for high output turbo applications despite its lower energy content.

<-knows some people who converted their WRX's to E85 just so they could run insane boost levels.
 
Originally posted by: alien42
cellulosic ethanol is the key to our immediate energy future. after years of R&D, 2009 will be the groundbreaking year for the technology. forget about wasting corn for ethanol, we will be producing ethanol from what has historically been waste and leftovers.
Click to expand...

pretty much agree with this.
Corn ethanol is just stupid and if ethanol is going to be viable in this country it will be in cellulosic form not corn.
I think the energy basket has to be more then one type of energy however.
Oil, Natural Gas, clean coal , nuclear,hydrogen, wind, solar, tidal, and probably 10 others we haven't even thought of yet.
 
CycloWizard's posts in the last 24 hours, summed up into one:
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
You are an illiterate idiot. Learn to read, then get back to me.

And you're an idiot. I guess it's easier to pull out a ridiculous strawman than criticize anything that I actually said, huh?

I hardly need grammar lessons from someone who capitalizes random words in his sentences.

WTF is wrong with you? You took my perfectly structured post, quoted it, and put it in your own idiotic style where paragraphs don't exist? I believe I learned about paragraphs in first grade or so, but I could be wrong. Surely the most educated person on the intertubes made it that far in school...

The election is over folks - try to return to using the rest of your brain rather than just regurgitating talking points.

Perhaps if you'd spend more time contributing and less time trying to be a condescending know-it-all, you could help change all that.
Click to expand...
When you keep discussing people instead of focussing on the topics, it makes me think of this:
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." --Eleanor Roosevelt
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by: dullard
CycloWizard's posts in the last 24 hours, summed up into one:
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
You are an illiterate idiot. Learn to read, then get back to me.

And you're an idiot. I guess it's easier to pull out a ridiculous strawman than criticize anything that I actually said, huh?

I hardly need grammar lessons from someone who capitalizes random words in his sentences.

WTF is wrong with you? You took my perfectly structured post, quoted it, and put it in your own idiotic style where paragraphs don't exist? I believe I learned about paragraphs in first grade or so, but I could be wrong. Surely the most educated person on the intertubes made it that far in school...

The election is over folks - try to return to using the rest of your brain rather than just regurgitating talking points.

Perhaps if you'd spend more time contributing and less time trying to be a condescending know-it-all, you could help change all that.
Click to expand...
When you keep discussing people instead of focussing on the topics, it makes me think of this:
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." --Eleanor Roosevelt
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Oh, did I miss a reply to me somewhere? :laugh:
 
Originally posted by: dullard
When you keep discussing people instead of focussing on the topics, it makes me think of this:
Click to expand...
Don't worry - everyone in this forum already knows that your e-penis is so large that there isn't sufficient room for your mental equal in this forum. Everyone here knows that I couldn't possibly know as much about anything as you do because that would violate one of the fundamental laws of nature: Dullard is a god. Maybe you should take over in the highly technical forum where your massive intelligence wouldn't be wasted on such invalids. :cookie:

I'm sorry that you can't accept that someone else here might have some idea about these issues. Until you can, kindly gtfo of my thread.
 
Originally posted by: sandorski
Oh, did I miss a reply to me somewhere? :laugh:
Click to expand...
Nope. I don't care when you do it because you're usually saying something useful rather than trying to criticize someone else's language skills. That was a response to Zebo.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I'm sorry that you can't accept that someone else here might have some idea about these issues. Until you can, kindly gtfo of my thread.
Click to expand...
I will go into or out of threads as I please. Except for locked threads as I lack the godly powers to post in locked threads.

As for ideas of issues, why don't you discuss the issues? Why do you instead just bash people right and left?

I answered your three questions - twice. I answered with respect to ethanol in general. I answered with respect to ethanol as fuel. Do you want to actually discuss the answers (either my answers or the rest of the answers in this thread)? Or do you want to just spout more personal attacks?

What do you mean by ethanol being "fully developed"? Ethanol is a fairly standardized and well-known product. Ethanol itself isn't undergoing any development. Large-scale ethanol production, on the other hand, is still in its infancy. Are we to talk about ethanol production in this thread? What alternatives are you interested in discussing? Your questions are just a bit too broad. Is it alternative fuels, alternative solvents, or what?
 
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: alien42
cellulosic ethanol is the key to our immediate energy future. after years of R&D, 2009 will be the groundbreaking year for the technology. forget about wasting corn for ethanol, we will be producing ethanol from what has historically been waste and leftovers.
Click to expand...

pretty much agree with this.
Corn ethanol is just stupid and if ethanol is going to be viable in this country it will be in cellulosic form not corn.
I think the energy basket has to be more then one type of energy however.
Oil, Natural Gas, clean coal , nuclear,hydrogen, wind, solar, tidal, and probably 10 others we haven't even thought of yet.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Use the corn kernels for food and animal feed. Use the rest of the plant, as well as the unused corn cobs, and basically any other plant waste you can think of (lawn clippings, leaves, etc.) and make cellulosic ethanol.

We know it works, it's just a matter of industrializing the process, which is being researched heavily right now.
 
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