Ethanol might not be the answer to fuel hunger....

[thomsbrain]

didn't read the thread, but Car and Driver had an excellent article on the subject that just blew the ethanol fantasy to pieces, and slammed Detroit for their role in pushing it. the water argument is just icing on a BIG fvcking cake. i think we need alternatives to oil-powered transportation, but ethanol will never be one of them.

 

[BigPoppa]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
didn't read the thread, but Car and Driver had an excellent article on the subject that just blew the ethanol fantasy to pieces, and slammed Detroit for their role in pushing it. the water argument is just icing on a BIG fvcking cake. i think we need alternatives to oil-powered transportation, but ethanol will never be one of them.

Research cellulosic ethanol and get back to me.

To those wanting hard data:

Text

This paper used 6 different studies and puts the data into an easily readable format.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
didn't read the thread, but Car and Driver had an excellent article on the subject that just blew the ethanol fantasy to pieces, and slammed Detroit for their role in pushing it. the water argument is just icing on a BIG fvcking cake. i think we need alternatives to oil-powered transportation, but ethanol will never be one of them.

That's not surprising.

Ethanol is good, but corn-based ethanol is terrible.

 

[desy]

So we have one guy Pimental thats says it isn't a winner and everyone else saying it is
Even corn based ethanl

"The US Department of Energy (DOE) Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy said the Argonne study should help quell debate about the net energy balance of ethanol.

"We believe (the study) has laid to rest some long-held misunderstandings about ethanol and its important role in reducing America's reliance on imported oil and our greenhouse gas emissions," DOE officials stated in a summary of the study. "In terms of key energy and environmental benefits, cornstarch ethanol comes out clearly ahead of petroleum-based fuels."
In the last 10 years, only two studies, both of which were conducted by Cornell University entomologist David Pimentel, have found the net energy balance of ethanol to be negative. Many economists have argued Pimentel used outdated data in his methodology."


And finally nobdoy beleives this is the end of technology only the start

"No one who's looked at this issue [from an environmental perspective] talks about using corn kernels as the only, or even major component, of the long term solution," counters Nathanael Greene, senior policy analyst with the Natural Resources Defense Council. "Everyone assumes we'll evolve the industry from its current technology to the advanced technologies."

 

[amdskip]

Within 20 minutes of my home town, there are 3 different ethanol plants in various stages of planning and construction. They are all 100+ million gallon producers too.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: MathMan

Originally posted by: Ktulu
Why don't we ask Brazil how they do it?

Did you not read the first paragraph in the article you posted?

In Brazil, ethanol fuel is produced from sugar cane which is a more efficient source of fermentable carbohydrates than corn as well as much easier to grow and process. Brazil has the largest sugarcane crop in the world, which, besides ethanol, also yields sugar, electricity, and industrial heating.

we need some sugar based ethanol plants down here on the gulf coast

or rice...

For the record i dont give a rats ass what plant we use to make ethanol just as long as we produce it so that we can sever our ties to mid east oil and give them one collective middle finger.

 

[waggy]

of corn bsed ethonal is not as good as suger based why don't they use suger?

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: waggy
of corn bsed ethonal is not as good as suger based why don't they use suger?

Our climate isn't very good for producing it and, despite all this talk for free trade, our government is against it for agriculture.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: waggy
of corn bsed ethonal is not as good as suger based why don't they use suger?

Harder to grow in our climate, plus there's a huge, overpaid corn and soybean lobby in this country.

I hate lobbiests, they're like prostitutes, except instead of screwing the people who pay them they screw everyone else.

If it wasn't for them, we could get some viable, rapeseed-based biodiesel, instead of trying to make it from soy, which doesn't have nearly the same yield.

 

[QED]

Originally posted by: waggy
of corn bsed ethonal is not as good as suger based why don't they use suger?

Sugar is more expensive here in the States than corn is. We don't grow a lot of it (it grows best in tropical environments), but we grow a lot of corn. Combine that with a powerful corn lobby, and you now know why we are pushing corn based ethanol instead of sugar cane based.

 

[OutHouse]

sugarbeets ??

North Dakota has huge sugarbeet farms.

 

[Howard]

What we need is algae-derived biodiesel.

 

[Chadder007]

Sugar Cane???....Heck My car runs off Sweet and Low. 😀

 

[Powermoloch]

That's alot of water there, it will be in better use keeping us alive and our fruits/vegetables too.

 

[Chadder007]

What would be neat is if when we cut the lawn ....instead of hauling off the grass in trash bags to the garbage, use it to make Ethanol instead. 😀