Ethanol industry demands higher ethanol limits in gasoline.

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Don't forget the cold weather starting problems that ethanol causes as well. More ethanol = more cold start troubles.

Particularly E85 even with the latest vehicles.

Never had a problem with my 1998 Chrysler T&C on e85 and the last two winters have seen some cold ass days here in iowa.

iowa knows nothing of cold.

:roll: Yeah, I forgot -30F is knowing "nothing of cold" :roll:

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
"iowa knows nothing of cold. "


And the 98 T&C gets poor fuel economy on gasoline even under the old system. Wonder what it gets on E85?

If we are generous and say it loses only 25% of its economy on E85, it's in the very low teens in the city and only in the high teens on the highway.

16 on e85 for city driving(not full stop start "traffic" though - just my normal driving to work and running around) 18 for e10 and 19 for "premium" no E(even though some "premium" brands use E iirc. My highway driving bumps each up 4-5mpg. Meh.... the haters will hate no matter what...

 

[PingSpike]

How about this...we remove the mandate requiring 10% in all our gas and let stations sell whatever they want. If they want to sell 85% or whatever, fine...as long as its clearly posted.

Then we'll see how many people actually want the shit and aren't just forced into buying it.

 

[desy]

Uhm the 10% ethanol replaced the MTBE because they found it to be cancerous
What are you putting in there then?

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: desy
Uhm the 10% ethanol replaced the MTBE because they found it to be cancerous

I have spilled the stuff on myself by accident in the past, it feels... weird... but those parts have not rotted off yet. Pregnant women in my ochem lab routinely handled it without gloves or a fume hood.

Text

The IARC, a cancer research agency of the World Health Organization, maintains MTBE is not classifiable as a human carcinogen.

MTBE is not classified as a human carcinogen at low exposure levels by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC).

Is it bad for you in high doses? Certainly, but is it worth diverting our food supply to fuel thus lining the pockets of the corn lobby that probably helped get its ban passed in the first place?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: desy
Uhm the 10% ethanol replaced the MTBE because they found it to be cancerous

I have spilled the stuff on myself by accident in the past, it feels... weird... but those parts have not rotted off yet. Pregnant women in my ochem lab routinely handled it without gloves or a fume hood.

Text

The IARC, a cancer research agency of the World Health Organization, maintains MTBE is not classifiable as a human carcinogen.

MTBE is not classified as a human carcinogen at low exposure levels by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC).

Is it bad for you in high doses? Certainly, but is it worth diverting our food supply to fuel thus lining the pockets of the corn lobby that probably helped get its ban passed in the first place?

Sure, lets also put lead back in. I used to handle it when it was still leaded and I don't have cancer. None of my family does either and my dad and my grandpa were mechanics who used it from time to time as a solvent and to clean paint brushes etc.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: desy
Uhm the 10% ethanol replaced the MTBE because they found it to be cancerous

I have spilled the stuff on myself by accident in the past, it feels... weird... but those parts have not rotted off yet. Pregnant women in my ochem lab routinely handled it without gloves or a fume hood.

Text

The IARC, a cancer research agency of the World Health Organization, maintains MTBE is not classifiable as a human carcinogen.

MTBE is not classified as a human carcinogen at low exposure levels by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC).

Is it bad for you in high doses? Certainly, but is it worth diverting our food supply to fuel thus lining the pockets of the corn lobby that probably helped get its ban passed in the first place?

Tell you what, I'll pour a glass of corn alcohol and a glass of MTBE and see which one you drink.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: desy
Uhm the 10% ethanol replaced the MTBE because they found it to be cancerous

I have spilled the stuff on myself by accident in the past, it feels... weird... but those parts have not rotted off yet. Pregnant women in my ochem lab routinely handled it without gloves or a fume hood.

Text

The IARC, a cancer research agency of the World Health Organization, maintains MTBE is not classifiable as a human carcinogen.

MTBE is not classified as a human carcinogen at low exposure levels by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC).

Is it bad for you in high doses? Certainly, but is it worth diverting our food supply to fuel thus lining the pockets of the corn lobby that probably helped get its ban passed in the first place?

Tell you what, I'll pour a glass of corn alcohol and a glass of MTBE and see which one you drink.

I can understand you're sarcasm, but it's worth pointing out, a glass of ethanol would give you alcohol poisoning and would likely kill you It's technically 195 proof.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Strk

I can understand you're sarcasm, but it's worth pointing out, a glass of ethanol would give you alcohol poisoning and would likely kill you It's technically 195 proof.

I should have said a "shot glass".

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Text

The IARC, a cancer research agency of the World Health Organization, maintains MTBE is not classifiable as a human carcinogen.

MTBE is not classified as a human carcinogen at low exposure levels by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC).

Is it bad for you in high doses? Certainly, but is it worth diverting our food supply to fuel thus lining the pockets of the corn lobby that probably helped get its ban passed in the first place?

Tell you what, I'll pour a glass of corn alcohol and a glass of MTBE and see which one you drink.

I never said that it was harmless in concentrated doses, a good bit of other things that the EPA / FDA allow are also harmful in concentrated doses.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Text

The IARC, a cancer research agency of the World Health Organization, maintains MTBE is not classifiable as a human carcinogen.

MTBE is not classified as a human carcinogen at low exposure levels by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC).

Is it bad for you in high doses? Certainly, but is it worth diverting our food supply to fuel thus lining the pockets of the corn lobby that probably helped get its ban passed in the first place?

Tell you what, I'll pour a glass of corn alcohol and a glass of MTBE and see which one you drink.

I never said that it was harmless in concentrated doses, a good bit of other things that the EPA / FDA allow are also harmful in concentrated doses.

And at what level is MTBE dangerous?

I'd rather be safe then sorry and we know alcohol has no carcinogenic effects.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

And at what level is MTBE dangerous?.

EPA

The majority of the human health-related research conducted to date on MTBE has focused on effects associated with the inhalation of the chemical.

The drinking water advisory document indicates that there is little likelihood that MTBE in drinking water will cause adverse health effects at concentrations between 20 and 40 ppb or below.

Contamination level (keep in mind we have been using it since the 70s):

Current data on MTBE levels in ground and surface waters indicate widespread and numerous detections at low levels of MTBE, with a more limited number of detections at higher levels (only about 1 percent of concentrations are more than 20 parts per billion (ppb)

When MTBE is detected, the levels are typically below 20 ppb which is lower than EPA?s Drinking Water Advisory.

 

[desy]

'typically' meaning not always

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: desy
'typically' meaning not always

Specifics:

only about 1 percent of concentrations are more than 20 parts per billion (ppb)

There is also a good chance that the majority of the atypical 1% is <= 40 ppb (the maximum "safe" threshold) since 99% is <= 20ppb.