Estate Taxes (Steinbrenner)

[HendrixFan]

Hey look, more soak the rich posts! how do you encourage people to be self sufficient and productive, by punishing them to the tune of 55% for their hard work!

How is inheriting money hard work? Or were you meaning dying is hard work?

 

[Craig234]

Hey look, more soak the rich posts! how do you encourage people to be self sufficient and productive, by punishing them to the tune of 55% for their hard work!

Yes, we should soak the poor and middle and lower rich, not the estates of dynastic wealth. Of course it's punishment' to tax them, but good policy to, say, get rid of unemployment.

After all, in our economy, the political system never serves the rich, only steals from them from the poor; the rich never get wealth from any exploitation.

Where do you cult members of the dogma for the rich get so indoctrinated?

 

[dainthomas]

Because the "new" owner hasn't paid taxes on it. You pay taxes on income for money that was taxed when your company earned it. When you buy something, the company that receives your money pays taxes on it. It is the transfer of monetary value that is taxed. When the estate is transferred to another party, it is no different.

As to the theoretical "why", because the founding fathers don't want this country to be an aristocracy. They want it to be a meritocracy.

Right wingers only care what the founding fathers thought when it coincides with their ideology. Actually left wingers do too, but less often I think.

 

[Fear No Evil]

How is inheriting money hard work? Or were you meaning dying is hard work?

The Steinbrenner kids have been running the Yankees since 2007 full time and I suspect working in the organization for decades. How is that not earning and investing in their father's business?

Why is it that people on welfare are never labeled as never earning anything by the left but children of the rich universally are? Oh, thats right.. its spelled ENVY.

 

[sandorski]

The Steinbrenner kids have been running the Yankees since 2007 full time and I suspect working in the organization for decades. How is that not earning and investing in their father's business?

Why is it that people on welfare are never labeled as never earning anything by the left but children of the rich universally are? Oh, thats right.. its spelled ENVY.

I suspect they received proper Market remuneration for such labour. If not, they don't even seem capable of handling the Massive Inheritance in the first place.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Yes, we should soak the poor and middle and lower rich, not the estates of dynastic wealth. Of course it's punishment' to tax them, but good policy to, say, get rid of unemployment.

After all, in our economy, the political system never serves the rich, only steals from them from the poor; the rich never get wealth from any exploitation.

Where do you cult members of the dogma for the rich get so indoctrinated?

You will find slightly different data on this depending on when and where you pull it from, but:

The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shoul­dered by a small group of the very richest Americans. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per­cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes.

How exactly are the poor and middle classes getting soaked?

 

[Binarycow]

The Steinbrenner kids have been running the Yankees since 2007 full time and I suspect working in the organization for decades. How is that not earning and investing in their father's business?

Why is it that people on welfare are never labeled as never earning anything by the left but children of the rich universally are? Oh, thats right.. its spelled ENVY.

these idiots who promote taking the wealth of others are deliberately being obtuse. I don't think it will get through their thick heads no matter how much others explain to them about working for what they have instead of supporting the government to steal from the rich.

 

[sandorski]

these idiots who promote taking the wealth of others are deliberately being obtuse. I don't think it will get through their thick heads no matter how much others explain to them about working for what they have instead of supporting the government to steal from the rich.

"Obtuse" eh? Hmm, funny use of word noted.

 

[desy]

Its not 'taking' the wealth of others its called a tax
The cost of doing business in our society, they know the rules the whole time they are building wealth yet even with this huge disincentive they continue to do so? suckers!

 

[Fear No Evil]

Its not 'taking' the wealth of others its called a tax
The cost of doing business in our society, they know the rules the whole time they are building wealth yet even with this huge disincentive they continue to do so? suckers!

Right. A tax is a voluntary GIFT by people to their government. A gift to dear leader!

 

[Kanalua]

wealth distribution. work hard to create your own personal wealth and a legacy to leave for your children and leave it to mad barking libs to want to redistribute it as they see fit. government knows best! you NEVER deserve wealth...only the government (and the government they like) get to tell you where your money goes...

Why not just set up a voluntary fund so all you raving mad libs can donate your wealth for redistribution by the Central Committee? That way you can alleviate your white guilt and affluenza while those who like having choice (keep your laws off my money) can distribute it the way they see best.

 

[desy]

Funny, some of my money goes to roads, hospitals , miltary, government, policing because its efficient to pool that money through taxes and the rest I get to keep and spend as I choose. . .
Having all those thing means I have a stable environment to live work and die OMG a social state where humans as a society, a species of mamals build interdependancies on each other to benefit all

 

[brencat]

Despite my being a conservative, I absolutely believe some kind of estate tax should be maintained. You definitely need to discourage the formation of dynastic wealth in this country and that is what the tax was designed to do.

Many of you have heard me rail against taxing the "rich". What I'm really railing about however are the cutoff points for the highest rate of taxation. When I hear Obama and others mention $250k, that is a tough for me to accept given the massively high taxes and cost of living in the NY-NJ metro area where I live and work. Two working parents with "okay" jobs can easily get to that level. But then have to go home and pay for their 4-bedroom sh*thole fixer-upper house on 1/2 acre land that cost a damned fortune + $20k+ in annual property taxes (out of after tax income of course).

Perhaps we need to have a serious discussion of marginal rates. Ditto for the inheritance tax. 55% seems too extreme. How about a 35% cap and the first $10 million exempted? I'm open to hearing alternatives or even progressive marginal rates. In the case of income, how about setting the cutoff for the current top marginal rate at $350k+ so as not to unduly punish middle/upper-middle class people in the NY-NJ metro area, most of California, and other business hub cities where the cost of living is high, and establish additional higher marginal rates at $1 mil, $5 mil, and 10 mil?

 

[Hacp]

Despite my being a conservative, I absolutely believe some kind of estate tax should be maintained. You definitely need to discourage the formation of dynastic wealth in this country and that is what the tax was designed to do.

Many of you have heard me rail against taxing the "rich". What I'm really railing about however are the cutoff points for the highest rate of taxation. When I hear Obama and others mention $250k, that is a tough for me to accept given the massively high taxes and cost of living in the NY-NJ metro area where I live and work. Two working parents with "okay" jobs can easily get to that level. But then have to go home and pay for their 4-bedroom sh*thole fixer-upper house on 1/2 acre land that cost a damned fortune + $20k+ in annual property taxes (out of after tax income of course).

Perhaps we need to have a serious discussion of marginal rates. Ditto for the inheritance tax. 55% seems too extreme. How about a 35% cap and the first $10 million exempted? I'm open to hearing alternatives or even progressive marginal rates. In the case of income, how about setting the cutoff for the current top marginal rate at $350k+ so as not to unduly punish middle/upper-middle class people in the NY-NJ metro area, most of California, and other business hub cities where the cost of living is high, and establish additional higher marginal rates at $1 mil, $5 mil, and 10 mil?

Horrible. If a person wants to give his wealth to his children, he needs to give 35% of it to support union pensions? I think NOT!

 

[Brainonska511]

Horrible. If a person wants to give his wealth to his children, he needs to give 35% of it to support union pensions? I think NOT!

Hey buddy, I think I hear your parents calling you out of the basement to take the trash out again and to start your 9th grade summer reading.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Ditto for the inheritance tax. 55% seems too extreme. How about a 35% cap and the first $10 million exempted? I'm open to hearing alternatives or even progressive marginal rates.

I see this 55% rate being thrown around.

The top estate tax rate is 45% (not 55%).

The estate tax starts at 18% and goes up; it is progressive.

There is also a credit given for estate taxes charged by a state.

Given the rather reasonable rate (income taxes can be higher), the $3.5 million exemption, the credit for estate taxes charged by states and the free 'step up' in basis, it doesn't seem at all that onerous to me (notwithstanding the "cash poor, land rich" example I gave above).

Fern

 

[Fern]

Well someone needs to wake up the founders and tell them that their plan is not working out too well. Our wealth as a nation is controlled by the top 2% of the population and they are not letting go of it even with the 55% bullshit tax that's applied to them when they die.
-snip-

I see this often, yet no one has ever demonstrated how static that 2% is.

Do those in that 2% rotate in and out? I think so in many cases.

Fern

 

[Craig234]

I see this often, yet no one has ever demonstrated how static that 2% is.

Do those in that 2% rotate in and out? I think so in many cases.

Fern

Yes, there is rotation. So what? That's the nature of wealth in our society to have some changes. There's not much rotation between people in the top 2% and dishwashers.

 

[Fern]

Yes, there is rotation. So what? That's the nature of wealth in our society to have some changes. There's not much rotation between people in the top 2% and dishwashers.

So what?

That's what makes this the land of opportunity.

Why complain about 2% holding much of the wealth if that 2% changes? Now if was an entrenched and impenetrable aristocracy I could see the problem.

So what if someone works hard and/or gets lucky, why begrudge them?

Someone else is always smarter, stronger, faster, better looking or, yes, even richer. As long as people can rotate in and out of that richer category based on hard work, talent, good ideas or even just plain luck I see no real reason to complain.

Fern

 

[EagleKeeper]

So what?

That's what makes this the land of opportunity.

Why complain about 2% holding much of the wealth if that 2% changes? Now if was an entrenched and impenetrable aristocracy I could see the problem.

So what if someone works hard and/or gets lucky, why begrudge them?

Someone else is always smarter, stronger, faster, better looking or, yes, even richer. As long as people can rotate in and out of that richer category based on hard work, talent, good ideas or even just plain luck I see no real reason to complain.

Fern

The 2% does not belong to the complainers

 

[palehorse]

The Estate Tax is absolutely criminal. It is also perhaps the most egregious example we have of social wealth re-distribution.

Gift taxes are another prime example, and those certainly affect many more than 64,000 estates.

 

[marincounty]

I've heard enough. I was going to be a billionaire, but with all of this talk about all of these unfair taxes on the rich I've decided to quit working and live off of welfare and food stamps. I'm going to live in a penthouse and drive a cadillac, and eat steak for breakfast. Welfare is going to be great, at least that's what righties told me.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I belive the term is Hoarding.

I believe the term is Socialism.

They have money because he worked to get it thus he/his family gets the benifit of it.

While a persons value to a family shouldn't be based on what you get fro mthem when they die, NO ONE should have to pay the government money because a family member died and passed their possestions along to them. If I were in the position of having to pay 55% of a huge inheritance to the government, I'd tell the IRS to get bent and move to Mexico.

And to prove a point (if in the Steinbrenner case) I'd just disband the Yankee's and put a bunch of people that relied on the team out of work. The players, people that work in the front office, the people that sell concessions, ect, ect.
It'd show them how the people with ass loads of money make sure that other people have jobs.

 

[sandorski]

I believe the term is Socialism.

They have money because he worked to get it thus he/his family gets the benifit of it.

While a persons value to a family shouldn't be based on what you get fro mthem when they die, NO ONE should have to pay the government money because a family member died and passed their possestions along to them. If I were in the position of having to pay 55% of a huge inheritance to the government, I'd tell the IRS to get bent and move to Mexico.

And to prove a point (if in the Steinbrenner case) I'd just disband the Yankee's and put a bunch of people that relied on the team out of work. The players, people that work in the front office, the people that sell concessions, ect, ect.
It'd show them how the people with ass loads of money make sure that other people have jobs.

Fail.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Fail.

I guess the debate is over then.