Estate Taxes (Steinbrenner)

[Ronstang]

It's always entertaining to watch lefties attempt to justify their selfish desires to steal other peoples' money to fund their own inadequacies.

 

[piasabird]

It would only be fair if everyone had to pay the estate tax.

You might take a look at how some rich people spend their entire life making money and then they just give much of their fortune away or direct its use for the common good. This is an example of such a man. His father was a pauper of an old weaver that was displaced by the industrial revolution. He made money selling his wares door to door. This was his son:

http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventors/carnegie.htm

Like others he made his own way in the world and he passed on much of what he had to the next generation. Ask yourself this: "If the government would have gotten ahold of his money do you think the results would have been better or worse?"

 

[mwtgg]

Nope.

The point (which has sailed over your head) is that the increase (gain) in the value of stocks, real estate, ball teams, etc., has never been taxed.

And by-the-way, player salaries (which cover your ""$1.8 billion on free agency"") and contracts are treated as depreciable assets ---- that means the Yankees got $1.8 billion in tax deductions for the services of those free agents ...

--

Intangibles get amortized, not depreciated. Anyway, where would those expenses go? (Hint: It's salary.) Expense it all in one year? Owners would love that.

Another interesting provision of the estate tax expiring this year was also the expiration of the stepped-up basis of inherited assets. I did not know that. Thanks for pointing that out, Fern.

 

[Darwin333]

Estate tax wouldn't hit those copernicus. Take your fake outrage elsewhere.

Because you said "Why have a cutoff"..... At least thats my assumption as to why he replied with that. Just a hunch.

Take your fake accusations of fake outrage elsewhere.

 

[Darwin333]

Tax is tax. If I think taxes are moral then I think estate tax is moral. Keep in mind that the value of Steinbrenners Yankees has gone up 1000 percent since he bought it which wasn't taxed. It would have been taxed if he had sold it.

Also keep in mind that all of us are taxed on money the was previously taxed. Sales tax for example.

How much would it have been taxed if he had sold it?

 

[HendrixFan]

Yes, yes. The cry of the LOLlibtard. "It's a great tax, as long as it doesn't affect me!" The death tax is downright criminal. Imagine what our founding fathers would have done if england instituted such a thing.

That's right, we'd go to war over it.

Not really. The founding fathers tried to keep the new country from being an aristocracy, much was written by them about the strength of the individual determining their place in life. The estate tax helps to prevent a concentration of wealth.

"For I agree with you that there is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents. Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi. But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missile death, bodily strength, like beauty, good humor, politeness and other accomplishments, has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction. There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class. The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society. And indeed it would have been inconsistent in creation to have formed man for the social state, and not to have provided virtue and wisdom enough to manage the concerns of the society. May we not even say that that form of government is the best which provides the most effectually for a pure selection of these natural aristoi into the offices of government? The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent it's ascendancy.

...

Nor do I believe them necessary to protect the wealthy; because enough of these will find their way into every branch of the legislation to protect themselves. From 15 to 20 legislatures of our own, in action for 30 years past, have proved that no fears of an equalisation of property are to be apprehended from them.

I think the best remedy is exactly that provided by all our constitutions, to leave to the citizens the free election and separation of the aristoi from the pseudo-aristoi, of the wheat from the chaff. In general they will elect the real good and wise. In some instances, wealth may corrupt, and birth blind them; but not in sufficient degree to endanger the society. "

 

[brencat]

Why would all employees get fired if NY Yankees get sold? You are not making any sense. It's a business, businesses get bought and sold in part or in whole all the time. If I sell some of my stocks, are all employees of the company going to get fired?

The value of a business, as in the case of the NY Yankees, is also driven in large part by perception of management as being excellent at what they do. Not that another party wouldn't be as competent, but that creates uncertainty...at least initially. And it's damned unfair besides. Why should Hal and his sister have to sell their stakes in a business that's been in the family and is his livelihood currently, just to pay what would be a $500 million+ inheritance tax bill?? Seriously, that is fvcked up beyond belief.

Same thing with a family farm...so the kids would have to sell the farm, possibly in a bad market like this one, to pay the inheritance tax on it? Fire all the working hands and turn over the land to some low-bidding developer at 40 cents on the dollar to build cookie cutter homes??

The death tax is blatantly unfair, period.

 

[Darwin333]

Why not? Also do you actually believe that Old George didn't have it set up where they'd avoid paying a good chunk of that tax?

All I know if that I would gladly pay inheritance tax if I were to inherit a large fortune

I have heard a lot of people say they would gladly pay a shitton in taxes if they made/inherited a shitton of money.

I have never heard anyone who actually made/inherited a shitton of money say they were happy to pay a shitton of taxes on it.

This entire debate is way offbase though. The estate tax hits those with hard assets (such as small/mid sized businesses, large family farms, etc..) and relatively little liquid assets pretty badly. Those with mostly liquid assets can easily avoid the vast majority of estate taxes. If you have $100M cash you want to leave to your kids and its actually taxed at the estate tax rate then its your own damned fault for not properly preparing to legally avoid those taxes.

Again, the tax code is written FOR and BY the uberwealthy. The sorta wealthy/almost wealthy are the ones getting boned by this.

 

[HendrixFan]

The value of a business, as in the case of the NY Yankees, is also driven in large part by perception of management as being excellent at what they do. Not that another party wouldn't be as competent, but that creates uncertainty...at least initially. And it's damned unfair besides. Why should Hal and his sister have to sell their stakes in a business that's been in the family and is his livelihood currently, just to pay what would be a $500 million+ inheritance tax bill?? Seriously, that is fvcked up beyond belief.

Because they were just handed something with a $1.2B value with no strings attached. They should have no problem financing loans and/or selling minority stakes in the business to cover the tax bill. Remember, they will have revenue coming in, in addition to the value of the team.

Same thing with a family farm...so the kids would have to sell the farm, possibly in a bad market like this one, to pay the inheritance tax on it? Fire all the working hands and turn over the land to some low-bidding developer at 40 cents on the dollar to build cookie cutter homes??

This is a strawman argument as almost no "family" farms fall under the estate tax, and most that do are easily able to manage tax payments off of the new income.

The death tax is blatantly unfair, period.

Seems like our founding fathers would disagree with you.

 

[Argo]

Whats the cutoff point where it should be taxed? $10k? $100k? 1 million? 10 million? 100 million? Where is the point in your mind where investment return becomes excessive?

The same as for every other liberal. 1 cent more than they make.

 

[mrjminer]

Personally, I don't think there should be any taxes on death, stock profits, monetary gifts, or gambling winnings.

Seriously, this estate tax is a tax on money that has already been taxed. Why the fuck should someone's money get taxed AGAIN when it goes to their family? Same thing with all of the above.

Double, triple, and quadruple taxing money is bullshit. The government should get rid of all these bullshit taxes and just run itself more efficiently.

 

[HendrixFan]

Personally, I don't think there should be any taxes on death, stock profits, monetary gifts, or gambling winnings.

Seriously, this estate tax is a tax on money that has already been taxed. Why the fuck should someone's money get taxed AGAIN when it goes to their family? Same thing with all of the above.

Double, triple, and quadruple taxing money is bullshit. The government should get rid of all these bullshit taxes and just run itself more efficiently.

You seem to lack understanding of the fluidity of money in our society. When my job pays me, I pay taxes on that money. When I spend it I pay taxes on that same money. When a business receives my money they pay tax on that money. When a business pays that money to an employee they pay taxes on it. It isn't double dipping, whenever a new entity comes into the money they pay taxes.

Unless you are trying to argue that the first time any individual dollar bill goes into the money supply it should be taxed, and never again after that?

 

[sandorski]

Then why do you chose one way or another? What guides you other than morality?

Principle.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Principle.

and principles are based on...

 

[sandorski]

and principles are based on...

...not Morality, but Ideas.

 

[daishi5]

I haven't seen this discussed or answered. Would we tax the children at the same rate if he gave them his estate before he died? Maybe, he gives it to them as a christmas gift for example, would it be taxed then?

 

[Toastedlightly]

...not Morality, but Ideas.

Morality judges right and wrong. Your principles are based upon your morals.

If you believe this to be false, outline how ideas guide your principles.

 

[Pens1566]

Because you said "Why have a cutoff"..... At least thats my assumption as to why he replied with that. Just a hunch.

Take your fake accusations of fake outrage elsewhere.

Intellectual dishonesty, already addressed. Try to keep up.

 

[sandorski]

Morality judges right and wrong. Your principles are based upon your morals.

If you believe this to be false, outline how ideas guide your principles.

Negative. Principles are based on Ideas mainly concerning the World/Society you wish to create, in this example. Your Path is guided by Experience, Intellect, and the Success/Failure of those who have come before you.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Negative. Principles are based on Ideas mainly concerning the World/Society you wish to create, in this example. Your Path is guided by Experience, Intellect, and the Success/Failure of those who have come before you.

And the world/society you wish to create folllows what, exactly? A world where people share your morals.

Your path is set by your goals, but your morals decide the path.

How about another question. When you formulate a political opinion, do you look to your own idealogy to see if it is right or wrong according to your morals or do you just follow along because it leads to your desired outcome?

 

[sandorski]

And the world/society you wish to create folllows what, exactly? A world where people share your morals.

Your path is set by your goals, but your morals decide the path.

How about another question. When you formulate a political opinion, do you look to your own idealogy to see if it is right or wrong according to your morals or do you just follow along because it leads to your desired outcome?

Principles, not Morals.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Principles, not Morals.

What is the difference? Aren't your principles based on your morals? If not, who decides your principles?

 

[sandorski]

What is the difference? Aren't your principles based on your morals? If not, who decides your principles?

I already answered that.

 

[Toastedlightly]

I already answered that.

You just brought me in a circle.

How do you decide your principles? That is my next question.

 

[Sinsear]

Personal attack? Nice, because I really care what some dude on forums thinks about me

Actually that was not a personal attack. That was just repeating your beliefs that you have well publicized on this forum. You've made it known several times you love importing peasants to get cheap lettuce. A personal attack would be telling you you're a douchebag. But I'm not sure if that would be a personal attack either, as you have well publicized that on this forum as well.