EQ2 The Shadow Odyssey

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Scrimmy

Member
Oct 19, 2007
144
0
0
I mean, I'm sorry you're a mindless retarded WoW fanboy and all that, but someday you'll see the light. I've already forgotten more about that game than you will probably ever know.

Damn, dude. What's up with the personal attacks? It's one thing to have a discussion but you pretty much crossed the line there.


As a former hard-core MMO raider going from WoW all the way back to EQ1 (ahhh, the sweet, sweet joy of training a rival guild and stealing back a ninja Trak attempt), I think Blizzard has made a conscious decision to design the game away from that playstyle. And honestly, I think it's for the better. I wasted a nice chunk of my life in a five-night-a-week raid guild and got first server kills on everything up to Naxx before I finally burned out on the constant grind.

There's certainly something to be said for the challenge of many of these games, but skill simply does not operate in the same realm as it does in the vast majority of other games and sports.

Compare EQ1 or WoW to an RL sport on the one hand, there is really nothing at stake and you ultimately get very little out of it. For the rewards to be worth it, you have to actually risk something, and while wasting a few more hours in a raid or taking a few extra nights to learn an encounter can be rough, it's really nothing compared to the risk of injury and hospitalization in a serious outdoor activity. Likewise, the reward of being the first on your server to clear MC back in the old days really isn't much compared to the reward of (I'm a cyclist) climbing a 7 mile mountain gap on my road bike then trying to break 60 on the downhill without plastering myself into the grill of an oncoming truck. The risk/reward is much the same for any number of other sports.

From an angle of intellectual competitiveness, MMOs simply can't compare to something like chess, as a classic example. There are too many variables that affect play, and there are ultimately too many tricks and easier ways to do things as you struggle along the nerf/buff path of MMO class balance. Your opponent's knight in a game of chess won't suddenly be able to move like a bishop as well, and your queen won't one day lose the ability to move diagonally. MMO fights are by nature too gimmicky and the encounters for the vast, vast majority of players really comes down to who can most precisely emulate something someone else did.

MMO raiding is all about risk vs. reward and even (or especially) when the encounters are incredibly difficult, the rewards are meaningless outside of the direct context of what you've accomplished. Sure, some of the encounters are incredibly tough, but filling a backyard pool up a thimble at a time would be pretty damn tough, too. That doesn't mean i want to do it, and it doesn't mean the sense of accomplishment would be worth it.

The kind of dumbing-down WoW is going through was always inevitable and it will continue to be the norm. The MMO genre itself is headed mostly in the direction of a lifestyle game where it's just another thing that people do and companies rake in the subscription fees. Honestly, I'm enjoying the game as much now as a purely casual player as I did when I was playing it hard-core.

If you're looking for a game that will always challenge you, MMOs as a genre simply won't deliver it anymore. They're much more about being able to log on, be social in a virtual world, and run around and kill stuff with your friends. And honestly, I'm pretty happy with this. That said, there should continue to be niche games popping up that are more focused on hard-core play, but don't fool yourself into believing they won't dumb themselves down as soon as they acheive a modest level of success in order to grow faster, whether it's a choice they make or one they have foisted on them by their publisher.
 

darkrisen2003

Senior member
Sep 13, 2004
382
0
76
Originally posted by: Scrimmy
I mean, I'm sorry you're a mindless retarded WoW fanboy and all that, but someday you'll see the light. I've already forgotten more about that game than you will probably ever know.

Damn, dude. What's up with the personal attacks? It's one thing to have a discussion but you pretty much crossed the line there.


As a former hard-core MMO raider going from WoW all the way back to EQ1 (ahhh, the sweet, sweet joy of training a rival guild and stealing back a ninja Trak attempt), I think Blizzard has made a conscious decision to design the game away from that playstyle. And honestly, I think it's for the better. I wasted a nice chunk of my life in a five-night-a-week raid guild and got first server kills on everything up to Naxx before I finally burned out on the constant grind.

There's certainly something to be said for the challenge of many of these games, but skill simply does not operate in the same realm as it does in the vast majority of other games and sports.

Compare EQ1 or WoW to an RL sport on the one hand, there is really nothing at stake and you ultimately get very little out of it. For the rewards to be worth it, you have to actually risk something, and while wasting a few more hours in a raid or taking a few extra nights to learn an encounter can be rough, it's really nothing compared to the risk of injury and hospitalization in a serious outdoor activity. Likewise, the reward of being the first on your server to clear MC back in the old days really isn't much compared to the reward of (I'm a cyclist) climbing a 7 mile mountain gap on my road bike then trying to break 60 on the downhill without plastering myself into the grill of an oncoming truck. The risk/reward is much the same for any number of other sports.

From an angle of intellectual competitiveness, MMOs simply can't compare to something like chess, as a classic example. There are too many variables that affect play, and there are ultimately too many tricks and easier ways to do things as you struggle along the nerf/buff path of MMO class balance. Your opponent's knight in a game of chess won't suddenly be able to move like a bishop as well, and your queen won't one day lose the ability to move diagonally. MMO fights are by nature too gimmicky and the encounters for the vast, vast majority of players really comes down to who can most precisely emulate something someone else did.

MMO raiding is all about risk vs. reward and even (or especially) when the encounters are incredibly difficult, the rewards are meaningless outside of the direct context of what you've accomplished. Sure, some of the encounters are incredibly tough, but filling a backyard pool up a thimble at a time would be pretty damn tough, too. That doesn't mean i want to do it, and it doesn't mean the sense of accomplishment would be worth it.

The kind of dumbing-down WoW is going through was always inevitable and it will continue to be the norm. The MMO genre itself is headed mostly in the direction of a lifestyle game where it's just another thing that people do and companies rake in the subscription fees. Honestly, I'm enjoying the game as much now as a purely casual player as I did when I was playing it hard-core.

If you're looking for a game that will always challenge you, MMOs as a genre simply won't deliver it anymore. They're much more about being able to log on, be social in a virtual world, and run around and kill stuff with your friends. And honestly, I'm pretty happy with this. That said, there should continue to be niche games popping up that are more focused on hard-core play, but don't fool yourself into believing they won't dumb themselves down as soon as they acheive a modest level of success in order to grow faster, whether it's a choice they make or one they have foisted on them by their publisher.

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Yes but what does this have to do with EQ2 or the questions I asked? Your comparing wow to EQ1 and Cycleing.
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
Darkrisen,

They are just rehashing the discussion on page1 of this forum post. Just ignore them. I'm not sure how to answer your question though as I stopped playing almost a year ago. I still know people who play, I can ask them the questions and see how they respond.
 

darkrisen2003

Senior member
Sep 13, 2004
382
0
76
That would be awesome. I was playing up untill they were about to release the shadow odyssey and I got a new job so had to can my sub untill I got caught up on bills. I was looking forward to the XP but have not heard how it was. I stopped playing as a lvl 50 something necro and was looking forward to the new content since I was told it was geared for 50-80. Its been at least 3 months since ive played so my memory is scetchy lol.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
Originally posted by: darkrisen2003
Ok so I havent played ina couple of months due to getting a new job etc and im curious how the expansion is. Are the new areas good? How is the new equipment and such? How about those new guild features etc?

They added a lot of crafting content with the new expansion in addition to the shard armor instances. The challenging thing is that you can take a high crafting level low adventure level toon into the new areas to do the crafting quests but you definitely have to keep your wits about you to avoid being splatted by level 80 mobs. All in all I think it is a nice expansion and have been enjoying exploring it.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
Originally posted by: darkrisen2003
what are the shard armor instances? Did not hear about that one.

You complete the instances and earn Void Shards. I have not actually done one yet from start to finish so I can't give you the details but from what I understand these are then used to make high level armor pieces. I can't access any gaming sites from work so I can't give you any links at the moment to read up on more of it. If you can access the sites do a search for shard armor, there is a lot of info out there about it.