EQ next?

[Fanatical Meat]

I've been seeing hints of an EQ revival quick google search didn't give much info. Anyone out there know anything about it?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

EQ Next is the codename for EQ 3. So far there have only been screenshots of concept art revealed since it was first announced during a EQ fanfest event..

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/0...smedley-and-the-soe-crew-talk-everquest-nex/1

 

[Craig234]

Hm. Why don't they just put resources into EQ...

 

[nageov3t]

I would assume that, years after launch, it's kind of like fighting against the tide to try and ramp up your playerbase numbers.

a brand new MMO, on the other hand, will get tons of press and people looking to see what it's all about.

 

[s1njin]

I really hope its more like EQ1 than EQ2 in terms of challenge.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I am very interested in EQ next but I am afraid it will be another WoW/EQ2/Rift/etc clone. Graphical clone is OK, that's not what I mean although it would be nice to see an interface that isn't a WoW clone for a change.

 

[akugami]

There was some discussion of this in the EQ2 thread floating around here.

A lot of old school EQ1 guys really want a more challenging game than the recent "kiddified" MMO's like WoW and Rift. I'm enjoying Rift now but I'm not sure that I'll be there for long. it's a fun diversion in the short term considering I have almost zero experience in WoW.

Make it harder to level. We're not talking Korean MMO grinds but closer to EQ1 levelling than WoW/Rift.

Get rid of the incessant and mindless quests. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against quests used to steer you towards areas and objectives for the sole point of experience gain. What I object to is that, and I'm using Rift as an example, you go to an outpost. They give you a "kill 10 goblins" or "collect 10 goblin brains" type quest. You complete it and return to the quest hub, and they send you to the same damned area to do another similar quest. And then they do it to you a third time. I just spent half the time running back and forth. Send me there once and leave me there. Don't keep making me run back and forth to the same area.

Now, there are times when it does make sense. I remember in Rift's Scarwood Reach zone, there was a quest from an outpost where you were sent into some caves. There was a captive in the cave that gave out several objectives that were completed in the cave. Finally it sent you back to the outpost. That was a lot more palatable. I spent more times killing and exploring and less time running back and forth between the mob area and the quest hub.

Epic quests similar to the original epic weapon quests in EQ1 or Rift's Saga of the Endless quests that is a continuing story.

Allow a solo levelling path but make it hard. Don't make it easy. You want the easy way to gain exp, get a group. Emphasize grouping much like EQ1 does.

EQ1 was never a twitch MMO. I have no experience in WoW as I keep saying but with Rift, many of the abilities are 6 to 15 seconds. I don't mind a few very short duration but powerful spells. What I do mind is the fact that almost all of your spells and abilities seem to be this short. EQ1 was more about maximizing your class's abilities and not how fast you can mash out a combo of abilities. More slower pace combat than Rift.

Have real consequences to deaths. Seriously, I don't blink an eye when I die in Rift. It's more of an inconvenience. Do understand and allow some sort of ability similar to the Soul Walk in Rift to give players a chance to get back in the game quickly because many of us have families now and our time is limited but don't be too free with it. Perhaps limit it to healing/support classes and only make it available once per 24 hours. Keep exp penalties or something similar. Make me actually lose something substantial by dying.

Make classes different and fun. I believe part of EQ2's problem was that the classes felt watered down in an attempt to achieve some sort of class balance. Again, no experience in WoW but Rift doesn't have as much of a class differentiation as I'd like. Make enchanters the king of crowd control. Allow bards to be good crowd controllers. Shamans actually made decent crowd controllers in EQ1 with root and slows except most shamans sucked ass and only would slow a mob. Make warriors the best tanks but allow shadowknights and paladins to be just slightly below. In fact, make SK's and pally's actually better tanks in certain situations like for undead.

What you want is not so much class "balance" as to make the classes different and fun to play. Make each class desirable in it's own way. Especially in raids. A specific class might not be wanted or needed in some raids but might be invaluable in others for instance.

Make the game world large. This over use of teleportation devices shrinks the game world and makes it less likely you'll explore it. It reduces immersion. EQ1 felt so large at first simply because a teleport was not easy to obtain and even when you got one you'd still have to run a couple of zones to get to where you want. Travel should not consume hours of your play session but it shouldn't be a walk in the park either. Example is that I built an alt just for crafting in Rift. At level 15 I had the alt open up all the porticulums (unlocked by talking to the porticulum master) so I could do my crafting dailies. That means I ran from the newbie starting zones all the way to the level 50 zones at level 15 and could now travel pretty much anywhere. That shouldn't be happening.

Dungeons should be large sprawling affairs as well. Upper & Lower Guk, Sebilis, Solusek A & B, Chardok, Siren's Grotto, Velketor's Labratory,

Limit the use of add-ons. WoW is so screwed up where add-ons help simplify encounters...to the point that new encounters are built specifically with those add-ons in mind and if you don't use said add-ons the game becomes way harder.

Make faction worth a damn. In EQ1 sometimes you'd be conscious of what you're killing simply because you don't want to lose faction with a certain group. Do I ally myself with the Coldain dwarves, the Kael giants, or the dragons?

Make guilds/players fight for content. I know it creates drama but half of the fun and more memorable moments of EQ1 was because you had to race to content or get locked out. Allow enough instancing to lessen the load on exp gaining and group level loot but I feel certain desirable group content should remain non-instanced and raid content should largely remain non-instanced. In other words, much like the larger emphasis on grouping, force players to interact with each other. Rift and WoW (outside of dungeons and raids) are largely solo affairs. You can go from 1-50 in Rift without talking to another person. It's a damned multiplayer game. Make me have to interact with the other players.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

1 EQ1 was never a twitch MMO. I have no experience in WoW as I keep saying but with Rift, many of the abilities are 6 to 15 seconds. I don't mind a few very short duration but powerful spells. What I do mind is the fact that almost all of your spells and abilities seem to be this short. EQ1 was more about maximizing your class's abilities and not how fast you can mash out a combo of abilities. More slower pace combat than Rift.

2 Make the game world large. This over use of teleportation devices shrinks the game world and makes it less likely you'll explore it. It reduces immersion. EQ1 felt so large at first simply because a teleport was not easy to obtain and even when you got one you'd still have to run a couple of zones to get to where you want. Travel should not consume hours of your play session but it shouldn't be a walk in the park either. Example is that I built an alt just for crafting in Rift. At level 15 I had the alt open up all the porticulums (unlocked by talking to the porticulum master) so I could do my crafting dailies. That means I ran from the newbie starting zones all the way to the level 50 zones at level 15 and could now travel pretty much anywhere. That shouldn't be happening.

1. What does twitch mmo mean? Like in Rift where you have to hit a button for every single attack? Yes, I prefer EQ where for basic melee attacks you auto attack, and only for cooldown special attacks, or for spells (that can take up to 10 seconds to complete), do you have to hit a button every time. That way you don't have to push a damn button just to do everything, that gets tiring and breaks immersion.
2. I prefer teleports but I prefer the game world to be SO large that you MUST have teleports. I only did the Rift trial, but based on my estimate of how big the world is outside of the trial, I don't know if teleports are that necessary. In fact the only reason they might be necessary is what I said before, to skip having to fight tooth and nail just to travel.

 

[s1njin]

It would be nice if somehow SOE could read some of this as constructive input for EQ Next.

 

[s1njin]

There was some discussion of this in the EQ2 thread floating around here.

A lot of old school EQ1 guys really want a more challenging game than the recent "kiddified" MMO's like WoW and Rift. I'm enjoying Rift now but I'm not sure that I'll be there for long. it's a fun diversion in the short term considering I have almost zero experience in WoW.

Make it harder to level. We're not talking Korean MMO grinds but closer to EQ1 levelling than WoW/Rift.

Get rid of the incessant and mindless quests. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against quests used to steer you towards areas and objectives for the sole point of experience gain. What I object to is that, and I'm using Rift as an example, you go to an outpost. They give you a "kill 10 goblins" or "collect 10 goblin brains" type quest. You complete it and return to the quest hub, and they send you to the same damned area to do another similar quest. And then they do it to you a third time. I just spent half the time running back and forth. Send me there once and leave me there. Don't keep making me run back and forth to the same area.

Now, there are times when it does make sense. I remember in Rift's Scarwood Reach zone, there was a quest from an outpost where you were sent into some caves. There was a captive in the cave that gave out several objectives that were completed in the cave. Finally it sent you back to the outpost. That was a lot more palatable. I spent more times killing and exploring and less time running back and forth between the mob area and the quest hub.

Epic quests similar to the original epic weapon quests in EQ1 or Rift's Saga of the Endless quests that is a continuing story.

Allow a solo levelling path but make it hard. Don't make it easy. You want the easy way to gain exp, get a group. Emphasize grouping much like EQ1 does.

EQ1 was never a twitch MMO. I have no experience in WoW as I keep saying but with Rift, many of the abilities are 6 to 15 seconds. I don't mind a few very short duration but powerful spells. What I do mind is the fact that almost all of your spells and abilities seem to be this short. EQ1 was more about maximizing your class's abilities and not how fast you can mash out a combo of abilities. More slower pace combat than Rift.

Have real consequences to deaths. Seriously, I don't blink an eye when I die in Rift. It's more of an inconvenience. Do understand and allow some sort of ability similar to the Soul Walk in Rift to give players a chance to get back in the game quickly because many of us have families now and our time is limited but don't be too free with it. Perhaps limit it to healing/support classes and only make it available once per 24 hours. Keep exp penalties or something similar. Make me actually lose something substantial by dying.

Make classes different and fun. I believe part of EQ2's problem was that the classes felt watered down in an attempt to achieve some sort of class balance. Again, no experience in WoW but Rift doesn't have as much of a class differentiation as I'd like. Make enchanters the king of crowd control. Allow bards to be good crowd controllers. Shamans actually made decent crowd controllers in EQ1 with root and slows except most shamans sucked ass and only would slow a mob. Make warriors the best tanks but allow shadowknights and paladins to be just slightly below. In fact, make SK's and pally's actually better tanks in certain situations like for undead.

What you want is not so much class "balance" as to make the classes different and fun to play. Make each class desirable in it's own way. Especially in raids. A specific class might not be wanted or needed in some raids but might be invaluable in others for instance.

Make the game world large. This over use of teleportation devices shrinks the game world and makes it less likely you'll explore it. It reduces immersion. EQ1 felt so large at first simply because a teleport was not easy to obtain and even when you got one you'd still have to run a couple of zones to get to where you want. Travel should not consume hours of your play session but it shouldn't be a walk in the park either. Example is that I built an alt just for crafting in Rift. At level 15 I had the alt open up all the porticulums (unlocked by talking to the porticulum master) so I could do my crafting dailies. That means I ran from the newbie starting zones all the way to the level 50 zones at level 15 and could now travel pretty much anywhere. That shouldn't be happening.

Dungeons should be large sprawling affairs as well. Upper & Lower Guk, Sebilis, Solusek A & B, Chardok, Siren's Grotto, Velketor's Labratory,

Limit the use of add-ons. WoW is so screwed up where add-ons help simplify encounters...to the point that new encounters are built specifically with those add-ons in mind and if you don't use said add-ons the game becomes way harder.

Make faction worth a damn. In EQ1 sometimes you'd be conscious of what you're killing simply because you don't want to lose faction with a certain group. Do I ally myself with the Coldain dwarves, the Kael giants, or the dragons?

Make guilds/players fight for content. I know it creates drama but half of the fun and more memorable moments of EQ1 was because you had to race to content or get locked out. Allow enough instancing to lessen the load on exp gaining and group level loot but I feel certain desirable group content should remain non-instanced and raid content should largely remain non-instanced. In other words, much like the larger emphasis on grouping, force players to interact with each other. Rift and WoW (outside of dungeons and raids) are largely solo affairs. You can go from 1-50 in Rift without talking to another person. It's a damned multiplayer game. Make me have to interact with the other players.

Amen !

 

[akugami]

1. What does twitch mmo mean? Like in Rift where you have to hit a button for every single attack? Yes, I prefer EQ where for basic melee attacks you auto attack, and only for cooldown special attacks, or for spells (that can take up to 10 seconds to complete), do you have to hit a button every time. That way you don't have to push a damn button just to do everything, that gets tiring and breaks immersion.

It's not that I mind the way Rift does things where auto-attack is very basic and kind of weak. What I do mind is the fact that most abilities are on 6-12s timers either because they are a dot that wears off then or that's the length of the cool downs for the spells/abilities. Considering that you normally have to a few different attacks or spells, you're constantly hitting a button to refresh an ability or spell. We're talking nearly non-stop here. That's like carpal tunnel city.

You can have just as many skill abilities as Rift provides but make them longer in duration or have longer cool downs. Raise auto-attack damage a bit to compensate. Obviously there is a lot of tweaking involved but there's less clicking involved and it doesn't have to mean the classes are any less complex or require any less skill. In EQ1, combat is a bit slower paced but that doesn't mean you don't have to be on your toes or quick. Anyone who has been in dungeons like Sebilis where a train can get you at any moment knows what I'm talking about. Speaking as an enchanter I know there have been plenty of times where I had to have a very quick trigger finger to lock down trains. The tank had to make sure he pulled agro of any mobs off of me or the healer.

2. I prefer teleports but I prefer the game world to be SO large that you MUST have teleports. I only did the Rift trial, but based on my estimate of how big the world is outside of the trial, I don't know if teleports are that necessary. In fact the only reason they might be necessary is what I said before, to skip having to fight tooth and nail just to travel.

Travel is still not that difficult in Rift. I know what you're saying though. I don't agree with having a port in every zone like Rift does. I also feel obtaining a mount is way too easy in Rift. I also think that without some traveling on foot/horse that the game feels too small and more importantly is that many parts of the zones get unexplored.

This comic kind of sums up a lot of what is wrong with MMO's today.

 

[pontifex]

It's not that I mind the way Rift does things where auto-attack is very basic and kind of weak. What I do mind is the fact that most abilities are on 6-12s timers either because they are a dot that wears off then or that's the length of the cool downs for the spells/abilities. Considering that you normally have to a few different attacks or spells, you're constantly hitting a button to refresh an ability or spell. We're talking nearly non-stop here. That's like carpal tunnel city.

You can have just as many skill abilities as Rift provides but make them longer in duration or have longer cool downs. Raise auto-attack damage a bit to compensate. Obviously there is a lot of tweaking involved but there's less clicking involved and it doesn't have to mean the classes are any less complex or require any less skill. In EQ1, combat is a bit slower paced but that doesn't mean you don't have to be on your toes or quick. Anyone who has been in dungeons like Sebilis where a train can get you at any moment knows what I'm talking about. Speaking as an enchanter I know there have been plenty of times where I had to have a very quick trigger finger to lock down trains. The tank had to make sure he pulled agro of any mobs off of me or the healer.

Travel is still not that difficult in Rift. I know what you're saying though. I don't agree with having a port in every zone like Rift does. I also feel obtaining a mount is way too easy in Rift. I also think that without some traveling on foot/horse that the game feels too small and more importantly is that many parts of the zones get unexplored.

This comic kind of sums up a lot of what is wrong with MMO's today.

Rift has a problem with overcrowding. Not of people, but of mobs.

There were some zones where you had to kill a mob for every step you took. that is fucking ridiculous.


I don't think death penalties should be too harsh. Sometimes deaths can't be avoided or you get into a shitty group. you might be able to play your character fine but that tank or healer might be a dumbass.

 

[Dumac]

Rift has a problem with overcrowding. Not of people, but of mobs.

There were some zones where you had to kill a mob for every step you took. that is fucking ridiculous.


I don't think death penalties should be too harsh. Sometimes deaths can't be avoided or you get into a shitty group. you might be able to play your character fine but that tank or healer might be a dumbass.

No, this is the reason deaht penalties SHOULD be harsh, so that people won't want to die and crappy players will get poor reputations and be avoided.

In EQ, there was no worse feeling to me than the potential of causing a group wipe. That would be a terrible shame, and I did everything (as an enchanter) to make sure that didn't happen.

I really think the lack of death penalty is what does pretty much all modern MMOs in for me. I can't stand how casual death is.

 

[nageov3t]

I like the idea of exp loss, but hate the concept of level-downs... that trivializes it a bit for endgame players, though.

 

[Bateluer]

I think there's a lot of life in the EverQuest franchise, personally, and I'd love to take EQNext for a spin.

First and foremost, though, Sony needs to upgrade their security before I'd be willing to keep my visa on file. Dodged a bullet when they got hacked because the CC on file was from a closed account.

 

[s1njin]

I think there's a lot of life in the EverQuest franchise, personally, and I'd love to take EQNext for a spin.

First and foremost, though, Sony needs to upgrade their security before I'd be willing to keep my visa on file. Dodged a bullet when they got hacked because the CC on file was from a closed account.

I really resented that they made me plug in a CC during my sign up for EQ2. I had plan to load it up w/ time cards, but I didn't have one prior to my opening the box. It would be nice to know if you can delete a CC if you add a time card.

 

[pontifex]

No, this is the reason deaht penalties SHOULD be harsh, so that people won't want to die and crappy players will get poor reputations and be avoided.

In EQ, there was no worse feeling to me than the potential of causing a group wipe. That would be a terrible shame, and I did everything (as an enchanter) to make sure that didn't happen.

I really think the lack of death penalty is what does pretty much all modern MMOs in for me. I can't stand how casual death is.

no, that just penalizes the good players for having to play with a bad player.

 

[s1njin]

No, this is the reason deaht penalties SHOULD be harsh, so that people won't want to die and crappy players will get poor reputations and be avoided.

In EQ, there was no worse feeling to me than the potential of causing a group wipe. That would be a terrible shame, and I did everything (as an enchanter) to make sure that didn't happen.

I really think the lack of death penalty is what does pretty much all modern MMOs in for me. I can't stand how casual death is.

no, that just penalizes the good players for having to play with a bad player.

I'm with Dumac on this one. I think it forced people that cared to care a lot more. Sure there were people you had to avoid, but that's the way it is in real life too. I really liked that aspect of EQ1. When I made my first cleric after so many hours with my other toons, I remember trying SO hard to get it right early - it was important.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

In the early days of EQ I actually quit my druid and rerolled cleric due to the constant time spent corpse running and begging for rezzes(and in the days before guild lobby summoning, begging for rezzes meant begging the clerics to travel to your body). The game meant something in those days. Today's games have taken away the loss that makes it meaningful, have they replaced it with anything equal? Not that I can see...

 

[pontifex]

i don't see how waiting hours for a rez or docking XP that you already earned is meaningful or a good idea. it would just make me not want to play any more.

 

[brandonb]

i don't see how waiting hours for a rez or docking XP that you already earned is meaningful or a good idea. it would just make me not want to play any more.

Good, there are plenty of other games out there with your name on it... Then on the other hand you are probably way too "bored" with the game to even play it. Ironic isn't it?

 

[s1njin]

i don't see how waiting hours for a rez or docking XP that you already earned is meaningful or a good idea. it would just make me not want to play any more.

I'm okay w/ the rez part - the docking exp part I thought was a bit too rough. I think it should be docked, but it should have a ceiling for how much is docked. Like maybe level 1-10 = 12% max, levels 11-20 = 10% max, etc. Getting stuck in the cascading death pattern trying to recover your body or just having a bad night DID get old ...

But it also made us better players.

 

[akugami]

i don't see how waiting hours for a rez or docking XP that you already earned is meaningful or a good idea. it would just make me not want to play any more.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm not saying that making you lose exp is a good idea. I just would like for there to be a serious consequence to dying. I understand the appeal of minimal penalties for deaths. My time is limited. I have two kids. I have a wife. Regardless of when I have free time, my kids come first. I am a candidate for a game with minimal penalties for dying or for leaving abruptly.

However, I just don't find it very fun or exciting if there is no penalty for dying. I don't want to be made to feel Superman when every person playing the game is Superman. It doesn't make me feel powerful, it just makes me like another person in the game. When I accomplish a task, it doesn't give me the same sense of satisfaction because there was almost no risk involved.

Contrast this with a large death penalty and a "weaker" player who accomplishes a dangerous task. There is a greater sense of fulfillment. Not to mention that there is a greater thrill while attempting to complete the task. I've never ever felt an adrenaline rush like what I felt in EQ1 as an enchanter who had a few mobs being controlled/killed and then the group I'm in gets trained. It's a race to control all the mobs and for the group to kill them ASAP or we die. And we lose time and exp if we die.

It also goes into the social aspects of a multi-player game. I mentioned this earlier but since the penalties for dying are so minimal I don't care about dying. I'm not steered into making alliances and friends in the game. One of the great aspects of EQ1 that people don't realize is that the game was tough enough that you had to band together to progress.

Furthermore, the penalties for dying in EQ1 may be harsh but if you made friends, they were lessened dramatically. A level 18 cleric had a resurrect spell that returned 10% of the exp penalty. This wasn't a big deal and even deaths weren't a big deal at such lower levels. By level 32, they had a 50% resurrect. By level 42, they had a 75% resurrect. By level 47, they had a 90% resurrect. Finally, by level 56 they had a 96% resurrect. If you had to eat a death with no resurrect the penalties were harsh but if you had made any cleric friends it was easy to get a resurrect. You could loot your corpse and get it resurrected later after all. So EQ1 had harsh death penalties, but they allowed players to reduce the penalties by interacting with other players. There have been times I took and ate a few deaths without a cleric resurrect but it was all part of playing the game.

I actually dislike the new corpse summons in EQ1. Yes, it is super convenient but I found myself interacting less with other players because I didn't need them. Two boxing, I could get by most dungeons (barring named mobs, and even then with a charmed mob I could kill many of them). And I didn't need help getting my corpse and the corpse summon area had plenty of clerics running through it sooner or later.

 

[Schadenfroh]

If they do this, they need to end EQ1, EQ2 and Vanguard. The ending of Vanguard will be more like euthanasia (despite it having so much potential) and EQ2 being shutdown will be just a quiet death of another WoW clone (from what I hear, this is what it has turned into). SOE has far too many fantasy MMOs to maintain and I do not think they even add content to Vanguard.

Hopefully, they will make something challenging that builds upon the lore of the EQ universe, I wish I could have experienced EQ1 during its prime, but sadly I was without broadband.

 

[pontifex]

Good, there are plenty of other games out there with your name on it... Then on the other hand you are probably way too "bored" with the game to even play it. Ironic isn't it?

you're attempt at an insult doesn't make any sense to me.