Epson R300 vs. Canon Pixma iP5000

[SilentRunning]

Originally posted by: nealh

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons

Speculation on the newest Canon printers - it'll be better to stick to the older printers as for compatibles to include a chip would significantly increases costs. Also, the larger tanks will probably only offset the use of smaller tanks - so no big saving there. The only scenario where cheap ink can be got for the new Canons is when people are using refillable ink bottles. However, for those outside the USA (eg me in the UK) choice is very limited (if not non-existant here..?) making it an unviable solution.

The 4200 and 5200 suck, they use smaller carts and Canon microchip them so they can't be replaced with third party carts. I even hate the way they looked compared with the 4000 and 5000.

You can refill the new carts but the microchip does not reset and it writes a message to the printer that third party ink was used and it voids the warranty.

Canon made a very BAD decision and it lost me as a customer in the future until someone comes up with a hack.

I heard the opposite on the chipped cartridges..that it did not affect refilling or void any warranties

it was supposedly to allow better ink measuring

where did you get this info..I thought it was not legal for the printer manufacturers to void warranites so long as the ink used met spec..cant recall where I read this but there is some legal stuff about this issue

This is from a post at steves-digicams

"I have experimented with my Canon iP4200. The chip works like an Epson cartridge, it will show empty after a certain count, refilling before it is empty makes no difference. Covering the chip with tape does not work, the printer says there is no cartridge installed, and will not print. The previous system of using a prism to signal low ink when the light spectrum changed has been discarded, so that is not an option. By continuing to try to print after ink out is indicated, the chip is eventually disabled by the printer with the warning that this action gives Canon the option to void the warranty through any damaged caused to the printer by allowing the chip to be disabled, obviously this will become evident if the printer is sent for any warranty claim. Once the chip is disabled, the status monitor shows no ink in the cartridge and the LED light on the cartridge is extinguished. The cartridge can be refilled and the printer will work OK, but there is nothing to indicate when the ink is running out, so the cartridges have to removed and visually checked before this happens. My experience with origonal Canon cartridges is that they do not take kindly to refilling, the sponge tends to lose its ink holding properties. Until aftermarket cartridges become avaliable that work OK, my recommendaion is do not buy any of these new Canon printers unless you want to have the above hassles or you do not mind paying a ridiculous price for Canon cartridges. An Epson R200/210/310 is a much better option as there are plenty of compatible cartridges, refill kits and continuous flow systems for them."

linky

The worst part is it appears that after you acknowledge that they may void the warranty the ink level is no longer monitored.

 

[Diasper]

About the chipped cartidges - after doing some further reading it seems that you can refill but you have to disable the ink reading and that logs to the printer's memory which if you ever try and get it warrantied will void the warranty.

....the only solution I could see is if you could edit or even just clear the memory .... possible?


Also on the more reading (I've been busy) on the ip5000 and ink usage including from here it seems that the ip3/4000 will be using the same printheads as the previous i generation (which makes complete sense) except obviously the ip5000 which has adopted a 1pl printhead (was the ip5000 their test platform for the latest iteration printers where everything now becomes 1pl?).

Anyway some information:

Only some of the printers use the same print head. Printers such as the iP5000 which is the only Canon I really have been hearing has better ink usage then the old i series. Mostly this is from the fact it is a 1pl print head unlike the real of the Pixma or the i series which are 2pl print heads. Also the iP5000 I think is the only Pixma printer with a higher resolution.

and

That is not so hard to believe, especially the increased resolution. As I understand things, when inkjet printer manufacturers refer to resolution, in dpi, they are talking about "addressable dots per inch" or drop locations per inch. For example, if the resolution is 600x600 dpi, that means there are 600 vertical and 600 horizontal locations the head can put an ink drop. This is controlled primarily by the head and paper feed drives. If the precision of those drives are increased, say going from 600 steps per inch to 1200 steps per inch, then the horizontal and vertical "addressable" locations will be increased, allowing for a theoretical 1200x1200 dot addressable resolution, a four-fold increase. So, keeping the same heads, you can still get a resolution increase

Now, in each of the addressable dot locations, the printhead may deposit more than one color, say a cyan drop and a yellow drop to get a green dot in the addressable location. In addition, depending on the nozzle used and ink drop volume, you could end up with multiple size drops in a dot location. Something like a 5 pL cyan drop and a 2 pL yellow drop together. All inkjets use one form or another of this "dithering" pattern to produce all the colors from just a handful of primary ink colors. Depending on the precision of the head and paper drives, the ink drop volume amount, the type of paper used, the density and spread rate of the ink, and the dithering algorithm used, it is possible to use less ink with the same heads. As each drop of ink gets placed with greater precision, there should be less bleeding of colors, which should make for more vibrant colors. Historically, printer vendors would use different algorithms to produce brighter, more vibrant colors by dithering magenta to the yellow and cyan to the magenta to make the colors brighter and more saturated, especially in photos. On the other hand, this type of dithering renders a less than true color image. I was told this several a few years ago (about 2002) by several inkjet vendor reps. It was a direct response to customer complaints, who felt that some inkjet prints were dull and lifeless, however accurate the color. (Sort of like the current complaints when some consumers buy the current Epson pigment ink printers.) If the precision of the drop location can be increased and reduce color bleeding, then the colors can be more vibrant and the dithering algorithm can be adjusted to reduce the use of magenta with the yellow and cyan with the magenta for increased brightness, and reducing ink consumption in the process.

I could be wrong about all this, as I am not a design engineer. I am however, an electronics technician by trade with more than a few years experience, and too many hours in training seminars, hehehe. If someone else can explain this better, or simply knows about this, please correct me.

I quoted the last post in full just because it was a very informative post. But in short it seems that the ip5000 should offer some albeit likely small ink usage improvement over the ip4000 which is an already efficient printer.

 

[nealh]

wow..that sucks big time

I love my MP780 but will have second thoughts about a new canon printer...going to look around for IP4000

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: nealh
wow..that sucks big time

I love my MP780 but will have second thoughts about a new canon printer...going to look around for IP4000

Let's hope a way to mod them is found like the Epson printers.

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: nealh

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons

Speculation on the newest Canon printers - it'll be better to stick to the older printers as for compatibles to include a chip would significantly increases costs. Also, the larger tanks will probably only offset the use of smaller tanks - so no big saving there. The only scenario where cheap ink can be got for the new Canons is when people are using refillable ink bottles. However, for those outside the USA (eg me in the UK) choice is very limited (if not non-existant here..?) making it an unviable solution.

The 4200 and 5200 suck, they use smaller carts and Canon microchip them so they can't be replaced with third party carts. I even hate the way they looked compared with the 4000 and 5000.

You can refill the new carts but the microchip does not reset and it writes a message to the printer that third party ink was used and it voids the warranty.

Canon made a very BAD decision and it lost me as a customer in the future until someone comes up with a hack.

I heard the opposite on the chipped cartridges..that it did not affect refilling or void any warranties

it was supposedly to allow better ink measuring

where did you get this info..I thought it was not legal for the printer manufacturers to void warranites so long as the ink used met spec..cant recall where I read this but there is some legal stuff about this issue

It's illegal in the United States but I bet Canon will bend this law a lot. The new generation will make it easier to detect the use of third party ink and make up an excuse of why it can't be fixed and blame the user for the damage. Canon probably couldn't tell if a end user had used third party ink in the older generations when people brought them in for servicing. For the most part the only warranty they will honor is those that buy the official ink carts.

 

[Venomous]

I will never give Epson time of day ever again. Their printers are over-rated and cloggers.. Check out the pics of my last Epson i sent back to them in my Canon Pixma 5000 box...

http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010047.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010048.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010049.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010050.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010051.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010052.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010053.JPG

The kicker to the whole story was Epson sending me a letter 3 weeks later stating" dear sir, it appears your printer was damage in shipping in route to being repaired under warranty."

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: Venomous
I will never give Epson time of day ever again. Their printers are over-rated and cloggers.. Check out the pics of my last Epson i sent back to them in my Canon Pixma 5000 box...

http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010047.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010048.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010049.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010050.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010051.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010052.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010053.JPG

The kicker to the whole story was Epson sending me a letter 3 weeks later stating" dear sir, it appears your printer was damage in shipping in route to being repaired under warranty."

LMAO that's to funny.

 

[HDTVMan]

Originally posted by: nealh

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons

Speculation on the newest Canon printers - it'll be better to stick to the older printers as for compatibles to include a chip would significantly increases costs. Also, the larger tanks will probably only offset the use of smaller tanks - so no big saving there. The only scenario where cheap ink can be got for the new Canons is when people are using refillable ink bottles. However, for those outside the USA (eg me in the UK) choice is very limited (if not non-existant here..?) making it an unviable solution.

The 4200 and 5200 suck, they use smaller carts and Canon microchip them so they can't be replaced with third party carts. I even hate the way they looked compared with the 4000 and 5000.

You can refill the new carts but the microchip does not reset and it writes a message to the printer that third party ink was used and it voids the warranty.

Canon made a very BAD decision and it lost me as a customer in the future until someone comes up with a hack.

I heard the opposite on the chipped cartridges..that it did not affect refilling or void any warranties

it was supposedly to allow better ink measuring

where did you get this info..I thought it was not legal for the printer manufacturers to void warranites so long as the ink used met spec..cant recall where I read this but there is some legal stuff about this issue

Sadly I believe canon had to do this. As I heard HP sells its printers at a loss because they want to make money from the chipped ink cartridges. Some will hack past that but most wont. In order for canon to stay competitive with such a tactic because most printers will be sold on the printer cost and most wont take notice of the ink cart cost until they need one then maybe realize it wasnt such a good buy after all.

Get the 4000 or 5000 while you can.

 

[HDTVMan]

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons

Originally posted by: Venomous
I will never give Epson time of day ever again. Their printers are over-rated and cloggers.. Check out the pics of my last Epson i sent back to them in my Canon Pixma 5000 box...

http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010047.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010048.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010049.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010050.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010051.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010052.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010053.JPG

The kicker to the whole story was Epson sending me a letter 3 weeks later stating" dear sir, it appears your printer was damage in shipping in route to being repaired under warranty."

LMAO that's to funny.

Awesome. Very Office Space.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons
I'd get the Canon IP5000 the ink is much cheaper and it has cooler features like the auto duplex feature. It can also be modded to print cd's and dvd's. The text quality is excellent, photo quality is great and it's fast as well.

How do you 'mod' or make the tray to print CD/DVDs?

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons
I'd get the Canon IP5000 the ink is much cheaper and it has cooler features like the auto duplex feature. It can also be modded to print cd's and dvd's. The text quality is excellent, photo quality is great and it's fast as well.

How do you 'mod' or make the tray to print CD/DVDs?

The link is in my signature.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons
I'd get the Canon IP5000 the ink is much cheaper and it has cooler features like the auto duplex feature. It can also be modded to print cd's and dvd's. The text quality is excellent, photo quality is great and it's fast as well.

How do you 'mod' or make the tray to print CD/DVDs?

The link is in my signature.

Does the DVD tray actually come with the printer even if it's disabled?

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons
I'd get the Canon IP5000 the ink is much cheaper and it has cooler features like the auto duplex feature. It can also be modded to print cd's and dvd's. The text quality is excellent, photo quality is great and it's fast as well.

How do you 'mod' or make the tray to print CD/DVDs?

The link is in my signature.

Does the DVD tray actually come with the printer even if it's disabled?

Nope. You need to buy one off of eBay.

 

[nycdude]

Originally posted by: Venomous
I will never give Epson time of day ever again. Their printers are over-rated and cloggers.. Check out the pics of my last Epson i sent back to them in my Canon Pixma 5000 box...

http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010047.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010048.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010049.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010050.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010051.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010052.JPG
http://www.venomousmofo.com/mofo04/P1010053.JPG

The kicker to the whole story was Epson sending me a letter 3 weeks later stating" dear sir, it appears your printer was damage in shipping in route to being repaired under warranty."

I almost pee'd in my pants laughing at this.

 

[13Gigatons]

lll

 

[Lemon law]

To me, big deciding factor for the Canon vs. Epson arguement is that the Canon's have printheads that are user removable and cleanable. For an Epson printhead its factory service only.

 

[Mickey Eye]

I'm really suprised that Canon disabled the CD printing on you guys! What does the slot do otherwise that you can use it for?

And no, I'm not selling my cd tray.

 

[SilentRunning]

Originally posted by: Mickey Eye
I'm really suprised that Canon disabled the CD printing on you guys! What does the slot do otherwise that you can use it for?

And no, I'm not selling my cd tray.

Well they were kind enough to put a different piece of plastic on the ip3000, 1p4000, ip5000, ip8500 which covers the slot and has no rollers.

On the current models the rollers are there but a piece of plastic is snapped into the slot.

Isn't Canon nice to us.

 

[Mickey Eye]

I'm a big Canon fan, have been since the BJC-600 but if I was in America now I sure as hell wouldn't be too happy.

 

[Lemon law]

In terms of cd printing, the Canon designers had it as an option. Canon USA was too cheap to pay Phillips its royality, other Canon divisions opted to enable CD printing. Were Cd printing a must have for me, I would go to threads on Steves Digicams or the nifty stuff forums about how to get cd printing to work with some effort by me for US models. Or buy an Epson?-----that is not well built, is likely to clog at the speed of light, and will probably be on the scrap heap soon.

But such is the vagaries of buying inkjet printers. The next trick is prevent anyone from getting per page economy out of any inkjets. Can't wait to see what bad choices and tradeoffs come next. Do printer manufacters listen to what the buyers want? Not in my opinion and their accountants seems so happy that us foolish consumers just keep the dough rolling in.

 

[LED]

Epson R300 vs. Canon Pixma iP5000

I have both right in front of me now and wondering if I should hook up the Epson and compare 😉

 

[Macro2]

RE:"I have both right in front of me now and wondering if I should hook up the Epson and compare"

Not if you want to take the Epson back. You know the IP5000 eats the Epson for lunch.

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: Mickey Eye
I'm a big Canon fan, have been since the BJC-600 but if I was in America now I sure as hell wouldn't be too happy.

No big deal, just buy a tray and do the mod and you all set, works just like the euro versions.

 

[LED]

Originally posted by: Macro2
RE:"I have both right in front of me now and wondering if I should hook up the Epson and compare"

Not if you want to take the Epson back. You know the IP5000 eats the Epson for lunch.

Bought the Epson for a Client =$79.99 does CD Printing

Bought the Canon for me=$99.99 plus $20 for a tray and must do 1 Mod to do CD Printing and warranty voided...Hmmm

 

[Venomous]

Put the slot cover back on, reflash the bios and your warrany still stands. Its not like they will know you print CD/DVD and hell, it was the damn printer was designed to do from the get go. If you use aftermarket ink, your warranty is void anyhow.