Epic fail for Detroit: Senate nixes auto bailout vote, punts to Bush to handle

[Throckmorton]

I'm sick of people saying that Detroit "builds cars that nobody wants". THEY BUILT CARS THAT PEOPLE WANTED- SUVS.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: sandorski
So, who's For the Bailout before they were against it?

I still think it would be a wise move at this time.

I'm not anywhere near smart enough on the issue to even think about writing my congressmen. I will be watching the value of my mutual funds get vaporized though

I'm in the same boat, really (if I had a congressman, I'm not really sure I am allowed to even write one ). I can make threads about it on Anandtech but I'm not really that committed to any side of the issue. I have said and maintain with complete, unassailable confidence, that if they get this $25B, it will not "save" them except in the short term. It's no more than a bandage over a terrible wound. It won't be enough to turn them around or have them weather anything meaningful. They are truly sick; it would amount to nothing more than an IV dose of good vitamins to a cancer patient who's in desperate need of chemo and even with that has a poor chance of making it through. $25B is a silly distraction, really. I think in fact they would need at least 10X that if they are really as bad off as they say.

I get the distinct impression people feel that these companies and some number of millions of jobs hinges on a simple little $25B amount, as if to give that everything will be right as rain. Do people really believe this?

I don't think you guys, the media, the analysts, are ever going to get it. Chapter 11 is just not going to happen. There is no one out there with the money to lend, that is willing to lend it, to get the domestics out of bankruptcy. With no one willing to finance a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the only option becomes Chapter 7 - liquidation.

Very possibly right. Nobody wants to give them the money because these companies are horrific investments.

Red Dawn's point that Bush isn't effective is true of course. I wouldn't trust bush to flush my toilet and not somehow flood the basement, but the idea that "this is Bush's fault" is a blame that only our resident loon holds, but nobody takes him seriously anyway.

 

[StepUp]

13,000 Shares of GM bought at more than 10 times its current value... I am praying for a miracle.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
I'm sick of people saying that Detroit "builds cars that nobody wants". THEY BUILT CARS THAT PEOPLE WANTED- SUVS.

Even if that was true, people opted for imports over the Big 3. So that means the Big 3 had to one up imports with features that set them apart from the improt SUV crowd. They miserably failed to do that.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: StepUp
13,000 Shares of GM bought at more than 10 times its current value... I am praying for a miracle.

Dude, you're fcked. Should have waited and bought them after Obama helps them post-bankruptcy.

 

[SSSnail]

1. "By a raise of hands, how many of you would sell your private jets right now to help the cause? For the record, no hands are shown".
2. "You've had 25 years to correct this mistake, how longer do you think you'll need? How much is enough?"


Pwned, IMO.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: StepUp
13,000 Shares of GM bought at more than 10 times its current value... I am praying for a miracle.

You spent $400k or so on GM?

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Ouch. How long would the bankruptcy proceedings take if it came to that? They would more than likely emerge leaner and meaner than they are now, but wouldn't manufacturing shut down for at least a year or so? What kind of effect would that have on the Michigan and US economies?

I don't think you guys, the media, the analysts, are ever going to get it. Chapter 11 is just not going to happen. There is no one out there with the money to lend, that is willing to lend it, to get the domestics out of bankruptcy. With no one willing to finance a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the only option becomes Chapter 7 - liquidation.

Well it sounds like the government may be willing to fund it.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Corbett
One last attempt to blame another disaster on Bush before he leaves office?

How is it not his fault?

Dave, are you seriously suggesting the failure of the big 3 is somehow Bush's fault? I'd love to see you explain this one. Let me guess, its cause bush is a republican?

Republicans... and corporations... they're all republican and corporationey... and they make money

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: StepUp
13,000 Shares of GM bought at more than 10 times its current value... I am praying for a miracle.

You spent $400k or so on GM?

You need a professional money manager...

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Ouch. How long would the bankruptcy proceedings take if it came to that? They would more than likely emerge leaner and meaner than they are now, but wouldn't manufacturing shut down for at least a year or so? What kind of effect would that have on the Michigan and US economies?

I don't think you guys, the media, the analysts, are ever going to get it. Chapter 11 is just not going to happen. There is no one out there with the money to lend, that is willing to lend it, to get the domestics out of bankruptcy. With no one willing to finance a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the only option becomes Chapter 7 - liquidation.

Well it sounds like the government may be willing to fund it.

Which is the only option. But the outcry from the public at large has got Congress too nervous to deal with it so they've tossed the ball to Bush. Congress has also overstayed their lame-duck session and is anxious to get on with their two month vacation. Their perks and pensions are very secure, so no need for anyone to fret about them.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Ouch. How long would the bankruptcy proceedings take if it came to that? They would more than likely emerge leaner and meaner than they are now, but wouldn't manufacturing shut down for at least a year or so? What kind of effect would that have on the Michigan and US economies?

I don't think you guys, the media, the analysts, are ever going to get it. Chapter 11 is just not going to happen. There is no one out there with the money to lend, that is willing to lend it, to get the domestics out of bankruptcy. With no one willing to finance a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the only option becomes Chapter 7 - liquidation.

Well it sounds like the government may be willing to fund it.

Doesn't change the fact that in all likelihood going to Chapter 11 will bury these companies.

When Chrysler rolls over and sinks I think there is going to be a re-evaluation of the "let them die" school of thought as the damage makes itself apparent.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Corbett
One last attempt to blame another disaster on Bush before he leaves office?

How is it not his fault?

Dave, are you seriously suggesting the failure of the big 3 is somehow Bush's fault? I'd love to see you explain this one. Let me guess, its cause bush is a republican?

Dave? Dave? Where did you go Dave?

 

[Genx87]

Are we assuming all of the the big 3 assets will not be purchased by a competitior and then run by said competitor? I find it hard to believe a foreign company would sit and watch that kind of marketshare sit idle. The Big 3 can survive even if they have to be bought. It just may be Volkswagon or Toyota runs the show.

I think the big losers will be the UAW and the people of Michigan and the owners of the company.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
I'm sick of people saying that Detroit "builds cars that nobody wants". THEY BUILT CARS THAT PEOPLE WANTED- SUVS.

Finally, some sanity in this thread.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Are we assuming all of the the big 3 assets will not be purchased by a competitior and then run by said competitor? I find it hard to believe a foreign company would sit and watch that kind of marketshare sit idle. The Big 3 can survive even if they have to be bought. It just may be Volkswagon or Toyota runs the show.

I think the big losers will be the UAW and the people of Michigan and the owners of the company.

It is possible that certain lines might be acquired but by and large the assets will probably be scrapped, especially considering the state of the debt markets.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
I'm sick of people saying that Detroit "builds cars that nobody wants". THEY BUILT CARS THAT PEOPLE WANTED- SUVS.

Yeah, i here you, this is P&N, most don't know shit about cars.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
I'm sick of people saying that Detroit "builds cars that nobody wants". THEY BUILT CARS THAT PEOPLE WANTED- SUVS.

Yeah, I hear you. This is P&N; most don't know shit about anything.

Fixed.