EnzoTech Ultra-X - no Payola, No Review?

[Spanki]

Originally posted by: SinfulWeeper
Downward blowing fans will never have the ability to cool a CPU as well as a sideways blowing fan.

Drinking the AT Kool-aid, I see . And yet, here's a user review where the Ultra-X not only cools as well as a sideways blowing fan (a Tuniq Tower in this case), but out-performs it in the process (scroll down to post #87 at that link, then read from there on... he later does some fine tuning and tests with other fans, etc).

I guess that kills that theory . It will depend on your system configuration. If you have no case fan pulling the hot air out of the system (like AT's test-bed), then you just end up re-circulating hot air with top-blowers, where rear-blowers tend to push the air out the back (where the fan's supposed to be). Not exactly a level playing field.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
LoL! Now you're fooling yourself...

Look, everyone compares Brand-X to a known good - in this case - the Tuniq Tower 120. It makes them *feel* good!

And, everyone claims Brand-X will equal or beat the Tuniq Tower 120 - the known best. It validates these misgivings!

If there was a better HSF out there, they would compare Brand-X to Brand-Y, NOT the Tuniq Tower 120...

You're just upset because AnandTech won't review Brand-X - yet you don't trust your own B.S. enough to buy one!

End of story...

The purpose of AT is to review the hardware that its readers are interested in.

I know that I am interested in more reviews of the Enzotech based on the few that have been done. Based on other's comments I would say that many other AT readers are also interested. Based on that, AT should do a review of what looks like one of the top five heatsinks on the market.

The methodology should match what closely to the common uses case.

That should be the end of the story.

 

[SinfulWeeper]

Not in the least. I am basing my downward blowing experience from two things. First off being the most obvious, personal experience. Second from the experience of simple science. Geothermal energy being one of the most obvious for that matter too. They capture the heat that rises. What good would it be to blow it back down in the case of a CPU heatsink/fan? If your computer was off for the entire night then downward blowing air would work for the first few minutes on boot up. After that there is heat from the CPU, motherboard, video cards, hard drives, PSU, optical drives, memory, other misc other devices that are inside your computer. When you have downward blowing fans on the CPU, all your doing is blowing that warmer air back onto them, there is no way around it. Once you reach a certain medium, the CPU could not possibly be cooled any farther. The type of medium exists in sideways blowing fans too. But since it is not blowing the hot air back onto the CPU and other stuff, that medium allows quite a bit more heat to be dissipated before that medium is reached.

My idea of what (though it would be expensive unless all stuff is standardized. Have all motherboard including different motherboard form factors) have the CPU in the exact same location. Design a heatpipe heatsink (which is pretty standard) Reverse the direction of fan, in this case blowing up. Then have a duct to exhaust the air out of the case from the fan. If it were done like that, then your Ultra-X heatsink would blow the jebus outta any sideways mounted heatsink (unless they are ducted out too). The same principal would be used for the video card, and perhaps even northbridges. Cases would need to be standardized for this too work too, just like the motherboards. But there is a lot that can be done with molding so they all would not have to look the same. Problem is none of the stuff is standardized. And second, it would be bulky at best.

Hrmm, perhaps I can buy an ultra and try it for the bored times. Seems to my like ducting the air out from that ultra based on how it is shaped does not seem like it would be all too difficult. A simple mounting system on the fan, then a duct that I can make out of paper/cardboard/styrofoam with a case cut. Seems like it should work wonders on a 1 120mm case. Just route the air from the PSU back directly out so that it never enters the case. While the other fan blows cool air into the case.
Can you post a pic of the bottom (CPU side) of the fins on the heatpipe? This idea might have merit. But... I really do not have the tools any more. Perhaps someone else can try and post pics/results then some simple comparisons.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: etech
The purpose of AT is to review the hardware that its readers are interested in.

According to Spanker...

EnzoTech Ultra-X - no Payola, No Review?

The purpose of AT is to shakedown vendors...

 

[SinfulWeeper]

Then again, watercooling might be more simple. The best water coolers have the resivour (however it is spelled, I know that is not right) mounted outside the case and the disipated heat from the CPU (and other components if applicable) does not go into or stay inside the case. Watercooling might simply be easier. lol

 

[gchanjam]

Originally posted by: SinfulWeeper
Not in the least. I am basing my downward blowing experience from two things. First off being the most obvious, personal experience. Second from the experience of simple science. Geothermal energy being one of the most obvious for that matter too. They capture the heat that rises. What good would it be to blow it back down in the case of a CPU heatsink/fan? If your computer was off for the entire night then downward blowing air would work for the first few minutes on boot up. After that there is heat from the CPU, motherboard, video cards, hard drives, PSU, optical drives, memory, other misc other devices that are inside your computer. When you have downward blowing fans on the CPU, all your doing is blowing that warmer air back onto them, there is no way around it. Once you reach a certain medium, the CPU could not possibly be cooled any farther. The type of medium exists in sideways blowing fans too. But since it is not blowing the hot air back onto the CPU and other stuff, that medium allows quite a bit more heat to be dissipated before that medium is reached.

Figured I'd throw my 2 cents in this little argument. While true of general physics and mechanics, this isn't exactly right. It's a fact that heat rises but in the confined space of a typical computer case, the case fans and assorted other fans in the case are more than enough to overcome this force and allow heat to be directed rather than to dissipate naturally. A well laid out case, IMO includes a good strong exhaust and top blowhole, is more than enough to exhaust the heat from a downward flowing CPU HSF. Add to the fact that a modern CPU doesnt give off nearly enough heat to saturate the air and you have airflow over all components which even though warm, is still better than the essential dead space provided by most tower type coolers in the CPU area and mosfets.

 

[SinfulWeeper]

You have some valid points there. However your still forgetting one vital flaw with your explanation and even apparent from the pictures I seen from the Ultra-X. There simply is not enough airflow inside a computer unless your using very extreme air cooling with massive amounts of air flow. The distance from the fins on the heatpipe is too small to be whooshed away. With the fan so close to the base of the cooler and the proximity of the fins on the heatpipe. You will be blowing the hor air right back on.
Now take other coolers that do not even have that rise before the fins, take for example the plain vanilla intel retail cooler. Blows air right down like the ultra, is very similar in weight, but cools significantly worse. It does not have the means in the case of heatpipes to get that heat away from the CPU. So while there is technical arguments to my above statement with some obvious flaws, none of those flaws pertain 0.000000000001% to computer cooling.

 

[etech]

SinfulWeeper, I disagree with your theory.

Based on this page.
http://www.computerpoweruser.c.../62r04/62r04.asp&guid=
"...
A simple calculation can tell us roughly how many times per minute the fans exchange the air inside our case (assuming a 1:1 intake to exhaust ratio that offers no turbulence). First we must find the cubic feet of air our case occupies. Our midtower case measured 16 inches high x 7.25 inches wide x 18 inches deep, which encloses approximately 1.21 cubic feet of air (not accounting for the displacement of air by the components inside the case). Now we can divide the CFM of our case fans by the 1.21 cubic feet of air we need to move. Using this formula, a single 30CFM fan will exchange the air in our case approximately 24.8 times per minute. With the power supply fan and multiple intake and exhaust fans, this number can even reflect multiple exchanges per second. For instance, a case fitted with two 40CFM intake fans, one 40CFM exhaust fan and a 40CFM power supply (exhaust) fan can exchange the air in the case 132.2 times a minute or approximately 2.2 times a second (160CFM total divided by 1.21 cubic feet of air in the case divided by 60 seconds in a minute [60/1.21 = 132.2 times a minute]; to find the number of times per second, divide by 60 [132.2/60 = 2.20 times per second]; to find the total amount of air moving per sec multiply by the air volume of the case [2.20x1.21 = 2.66 cubic feet per second, which checks out because it also equals 160CFM/60 sec]). Now, fans of fans have a spiffy new statistic they can brag about.
..."

One single 30CFM fan is not what I would consider "very extreme air cooling with massive amounts of air flow." and yet the air turn over inside a case with one is 24.8 times per minute based on the above calculations.

I don't believe you will see the heat build up that you theorize would happen.

 

[Spanki]

Originally posted by: SinfulWeeper
You have some valid points there. However your still forgetting one vital flaw with your explanation and even apparent from the pictures I seen from the Ultra-X. There simply is not enough airflow inside a computer unless your using very extreme air cooling with massive amounts of air flow. The distance from the fins on the heatpipe is too small to be whooshed away. With the fan so close to the base of the cooler and the proximity of the fins on the heatpipe. You will be blowing the hor air right back on.
Now take other coolers that do not even have that rise before the fins, take for example the plain vanilla intel retail cooler. Blows air right down like the ultra, is very similar in weight, but cools significantly worse. It does not have the means in the case of heatpipes to get that heat away from the CPU. So while there is technical arguments to my above statement with some obvious flaws, none of those flaws pertain 0.000000000001% to computer cooling.

Theories, specualtion and opinions aside, the imperical evidence of a guy trying both coolers in his system and reporting the results shows otherwise.

So, I guess either that guy and others are lying for some unknown reason/motive, or you're just wrong.

 

[anandtechrocks]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: etech
The purpose of AT is to review the hardware that its readers are interested in.

According to Spanker...

EnzoTech Ultra-X - no Payola, No Review?

The purpose of AT is to shakedown vendors...

Why do you post such childish things? I think Spanki has some very good points and you reply by insulting his name? Grow up kid it's a CPU heatsink!

That being said, I too would like to see an Anandtech review of the Ultra-X and the TR SI-128 since both have very similar designs (8mm heatpipes and downward blowing fans). I also think the Tuniq is a nice cooler, but because you're limited to 25mm fans I would never buy it.

 

[Spanki]

Originally posted by: anandtechrocks
...That being said, I too would like to see an Anandtech review of the Ultra-X and the TR SI-128 since both have very similar designs (8mm heatpipes and downward blowing fans). I also think the Tuniq is a nice cooler, but because you're limited to 25mm fans I would never buy it.

Hmm... you know, until you mentioned it, I didn;t realize that the SI-128 had 8mm heatpipes. I usually look for things like this and I'm surprised I hadn't noticed yet, so thanks.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: anandtechrocks
I also think the Tuniq is a nice cooler, but because you're limited to 25mm fans I would never buy it.

Huh? 25mm fans?!?!?!

LoL! What are you talking about?

Oh, okay, I get it! YOU are worried about the fan width...

That's because the Tuniq Tower 120 is such a compact design! :laugh:

Kidding aside, the integrated pull-push fan on the Tuniq Tower & Mine is the reason they work so good!

If they could do this with face-down coolers maybe they would have a fighting chance!

NOT!

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: anandtechrocks
I also think the Tuniq is a nice cooler, but because you're limited to 25mm fans I would never buy it.

Huh? 25mm fans?!?!?!

LoL! What are you talking about?

Oh, okay, I get it! YOU are worried about the fan width...

That's because the Tuniq Tower 120 is such a compact design! :laugh:

Kidding aside, the integrated pull-push fan on the Tuniq Tower & Mine is the reason they work so good!

If they could do this with face-down coolers maybe they would have a fighting chance!

NOT!

Vin, how old are you?

 

[VinDSL]

At least YOU know the proper usage of the Straw Man!

Back OT... from the latest AT review:

In our continuing quest for the best top-end air cooler it has been interesting to see the heatpipe towers pull to the front of the pack. Coolers like the Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme and the Ultra-120, the Tuniq Tower 120, and the Scythe Ninja Plus 2 with push-pull fans have topped our all-time performance charts.

 

[Spanki]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
At least YOU know the proper usage of the Straw Man!

Back OT... from the latest AT review:

In our continuing quest for the best top-end air cooler it has been interesting to see the heatpipe towers pull to the front of the pack. Coolers like the Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme and the Ultra-120, the Tuniq Tower 120, and the Scythe Ninja Plus 2 with push-pull fans have topped our all-time performance charts.

The topic at hand is:

"Why hasn't the EnzoTech Ultra-X been tested yet?"
or
"Would you please include the EnzoTech Ultra-X in your roundup?"
or even
"There are some of us who would like to see the EnzoTech Ultra-X included within the list of tested heatsinks, despite the fact that you don't think top-blowing fan heatsinks can out-perform tower heatsinks".

...the quote you posted has nothing to do with the topic at all.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: Spanki
...the quote you posted has nothing to do with the topic at all.

Er... That was a logical absurdity - a joke. OT stands for off-topic!

The larger point is...

AnandTech has a poor opinion of face-down coolers. Even if they DID a review, you guys wouldn't be happy - guaranteed!

 

[Spanki]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: Spanki
...the quote you posted has nothing to do with the topic at all.

Er... That was a logical absurdity - a joke. OT stands for off-topic!

The larger point is...

AnandTech has a poor opinion of face-down coolers. Even if they DID a review, you guys wouldn't be happy - guaranteed!

My mistake.. I assumed you were making some attempt to get back On Topic - I guess I should have known better. But since you insist on changing the topic, I consider AnandTech's opinion of face-down coolers of secondary interest and based on admitedly flawed / un-even test configuration.

As for being happy or not, you seem pretty caught up in the idea that people only care about the highest performing heatsink, reagardless of fan speed/noise, bulkiness/dimensions, mounting mechanism, aesthetic, price, or any other number of legitimate concerns.

I just don't understand why you're trying so hard for it not to be reviewed - wouldn't that vindicate your (narrow) viewpoint that it's not the best cooler on earth and therefore shouldn't have been reviewed? Or maybe you're afraid it might actually out-perform the Tuniq and make you look silly? Relax - I'm pretty confident that it'll come up short a few (to several) degrees on this test-setup.

If you want to debate the merrits of top-blowers vs side-blowers or the best performance heatsinks in the world or why Tuniq rules or anything else, feel free to start your own topic - this particular thread is about AnandTech readers wanting to see the Ultra-X reviewed.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: Spanki
My mistake.. I assumed you were making some attempt to get back On Topic...

As for being happy or not, you seem pretty caught up in the idea that people only care about the highest performing heatsink, reagardless of fan speed/noise, bulkiness/dimensions, mounting mechanism, aesthetic, price, or any other number of legitimate concerns.

I just don't understand why you're trying so hard for it not to be reviewed...

Okay, here's the deal...

I know you're an AT n00b, judging by your post count! Normally, I would take that into account, but...

What I don't know is whether or not you were a lurker prior to posting your rant...

I assume NOT, because I have recommended the EnzoTech Ultra-X HSF in several posts in special situations, based on what I've read - just like you!

I don't care if AT reviews the Ultra-X or not. That's up to them, but I assure you - you're not going to shame them into it, so you might as well give up, if that's your idea!

The thing is, you've accused them of corruption, without ANY proof of same, and that makes YOU a foo (as Mr. T would say) - so I question your judgementl!

Furthermore, you issued a challenge to prove you wrong, and I'm schooled in debate, so you're easy pickin's, bro!

If you can't stand the heat, you're in the wrong forums! These guys are brutal!

I don't know why nobody else is chiming in. I guess they're all happy to hold my hat while I kick your ass, including the mods...

No matter!

Keep digging a grave for yourself...

Make sense now?

 

[VinDSL]

BTW...

Welcome to AnandTech! :laugh:

 

[Spanki]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
BTW...

Welcome to AnandTech! :laugh:

Well, I must say you're amusing, if nothing else.

I fail to see where post-count has anything to do with anything, but just for the record, no - I hadn't noticed (or looked for) you recommending the Ultra-X. If you have, then that raises my opinion of you, which has so far been formed by your responses in this thread (which have been fairly one-dimensional).

Also, just to be clear, I haven't accused AT of anything. I've simply asked why it hasn't been reviewed yet and (after reading thier article on Payola) posed one potential answer/scenerio that some people might wonder about, given the lack of response to it's readers requests. If it was a simple question of availability, oversight, or something else, they could say so - but so far - they still haven't responded (unless I missed it in some other thread).

As for you kicking my ass in the debate... well... I'll leave that for others to decide .

I'd venture to guess that I've been messing with computers since you were in diapers and discussing issues in 'online' forums since well before there was an internet, so I can handle myself just fine, but thanks for the thought. I'd be more than happy to have others chime in on the matter - as several already have.

 

[Spanki]

Uhm, to everyone else (hell, even to Vin - actually maybe specifically to Vin)...

I realize that forums are an imperfect means of communicating, so it's difficult to judge intent/motive of the things people type without the benifit of hearing the inflection of thier voice or manor in which they might say it, so...

Q: Do I really believe that AT hasn't reviewed the Ultra-X because they haven't bought advertising here yet?

A: No. At least I would certainly hope that wasn't the case. My first post (and title of the thread) was written the way it was to get attention to the question... and I viewed thier sister-site article as good irony and basis for my sarcasm. As I mentioned early on, if that was too subtle, I appologize (whether you consider my use of the term "straw man" appropriate or not is your business, but the intent was to give clue that I was being sarcastic).

Regardless of how the question was posed, it's still a valid question and I'm still interested in the answer - why hasn't the Ultra-X been reviewed yet?

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: Spanki
My mistake.. I assumed you were making some attempt to get back On Topic...

As for being happy or not, you seem pretty caught up in the idea that people only care about the highest performing heatsink, reagardless of fan speed/noise, bulkiness/dimensions, mounting mechanism, aesthetic, price, or any other number of legitimate concerns.

I just don't understand why you're trying so hard for it not to be reviewed...

Okay, here's the deal...

I know you're an AT n00b, judging by your post count! Normally, I would take that into account, but...

What I don't know is whether or not you were a lurker prior to posting your rant...

I assume NOT, because I have recommended the EnzoTech Ultra-X HSF in several posts in special situations, based on what I've read - just like you!

I don't care if AT reviews the Ultra-X or not. That's up to them, but I assure you - you're not going to shame them into it, so you might as well give up, if that's your idea!

The thing is, you've accused them of corruption, without ANY proof of same, and that makes YOU a foo (as Mr. T would say) - so I question your judgementl!

Furthermore, you issued a challenge to prove you wrong, and I'm schooled in debate, so you're easy pickin's, bro!

If you can't stand the heat, you're in the wrong forums! These guys are brutal!

I don't know why nobody else is chiming in. I guess they're all happy to hold my hat while I kick your ass, including the mods...

No matter!

Keep digging a grave for yourself...

Make sense now?

Vin, to some of us, you're the noob, keep digging son.

Spanki, has made a good case and handled himself quite well in this thread.

 

[VinDSL]

Okay, bros, no problem!

Apologies accepted...

Shake?

BTW, from my post on 6/3/2007 (one week ago)...

There is NO doubt in MY mind that the Enzo Ultra is a BETTER BT, than the [Thermaltake 'Big Typs'] !!!

Personally, I run a P4 Extreme Edition @ 3825 MHz. If an Enzo would fit on it, that's what I would be running, but it doesn't, soooo, it's a Tuniq Tower 120 for me, until someone actually kills it...

Why? Not because the Enzo Ultra is better, performance-wise, than a Tuniq Tower, but because I like 'different' things -- and it's a classic, in its own right!

Just don't tell anybody...

 

[mojaveron]

The Enzotech Ultra-X IMO is one of the top 4 air coolers on the market and does not get the recognition it deserves other than users on the forums .
But all I can say is I am sure happy with it.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: mojaveron
The Enzotech Ultra-X IMO is one of the top 4 air coolers on the market and does not get the recognition it deserves...

I agree! It's kinda like that cruel image from a couple of years ago...

"Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded."

In a perfect world Sunbeam would come out with a warped Tuniq Tower eXtreme and AnandTech would compare it favorably to a EnzoTech Ultra-X...

I mean its, like, sooooooo unfair! :|