Entry Level Motorcycle Thread

[Ciber]

Man, that's going to hurt WHEN you drop that bike for the first time.

Dropped it the next day practicing, a piece of the clutch lever snapped off, that was the only damage besides a bit of a scrape at the end of the handlebar. Basically dropped it practicing a slow tight turn(5 mph or so?). I knew it would eventually happen, and have already started looking for fairing sets for when it's bad, learn on it and then replace the fairings, not the end of the world. I'm truly not trying to impress anyone or whatever, i just simply like the damn bike.

Thanks for not being an ass, unlike some other people here.


*** None of this happened on public roads/property. ***

 

[JulesMaximus]

Dropped it the next day practicing, a piece of the clutch lever snapped off, that was the only damage besides a bit of a scrape at the end of the handlebar. Basically dropped it practicing a slow tight turn(5 mph or so?). I knew it would eventually happen, and have already started looking for fairing sets for when it's bad, learn on it and then replace the fairings, not the end of the world. I'm truly not trying to impress anyone or whatever, i just simply like the damn bike.

Thanks for not being an ass, unlike some other people here.

*** None of this happened on public roads/property. ***

Plastics for that bike are going to be EXPENSIVE!!! That's why insurance companies write them off with relatively little damage.

Get some frame sliders, that will help protect the really expensive bits.

BTW-I debadged my bike too. I just like the clean look without all the stupid decals.

 

[ballmode]

Cruiser that is 600cc-750cc

or SV650 :0

 

[SooperDave]

Dropped it the next day practicing, a piece of the clutch lever snapped off, that was the only damage besides a bit of a scrape at the end of the handlebar. Basically dropped it practicing a slow tight turn(5 mph or so?). I knew it would eventually happen, and have already started looking for fairing sets for when it's bad, learn on it and then replace the fairings, not the end of the world. I'm truly not trying to impress anyone or whatever, i just simply like the damn bike.

Thanks for not being an ass, unlike some other people here.


*** None of this happened on public roads/property. ***

You might be money ahead to invest in some after market fairings and put your factory stuff safely away. A quick google found these http://www.fastfairings.com/category-s/24.htm


And sliders too

 

[Greenman]

Cruiser that is 600cc-750cc

or SV650 :0

With a cruiser weight is all that he need be concerned about. From a riding standpoint, they're very tame.

 

[Kabob]

I was thinking about buying a motorcycle last year. I would have gotten a Buell Blast. Unfortunately they canned the model this year.

I never liked Buell...and the Blast wasn't exactly a well built bike. I looked at it for my first bike but axed that idea.

Between the Kawasaki Ninja 500R or the Suzuki GS500F, which would be the better bike?

I rode an '00 500R for a while, lots of fun, strong motor (parallel twin...if anyone makes fun of you just say it's the better half of a ZX-10R). Clip-ons were really high and there wasn't a good way to lower 'em (I did track days).

GS500 is equally stellar. Not quite as many of 'em out there which is kind of nice and honestly it's "prettier" than a Ninja 500.

Were I just starting out now though I'd be hard pressed to pass up the redesigned Ninja 250R. That thing is great. No power, sure, but you're not worried about power, you're worried about the basics of riding. It's nearly bulletproof, tons of fun, light, etc. I've got a few friends who race them, they all love the bike.

You could get a 600cc sportbike used pretty cheap. Just take it easy for about 2-3 months then ride it like you stole it after that. You control the bike not the other way around. Get someone who knows bikes to teach you and you'll be fine.
I almost threw up at the cruiser suggestions. You're gonna get a 600cc or bigger bike soon after that 500cc so just skip that altogether.

Do it! You'll thank me later for not wasting your money on a 500cc! It's a serious machine yes but treat her with the proper care and respect and she returns the favor.

2-3 months of "taking it easy" doesn't really prepare you for the freak moment you hit a pothole and grab too much throttle or brake...years of riding and honing your skills will. I know a guy who used to be a security guard at my workplace on a GSX-R750 who "took it easy" for more like 6 months before the bike bit him...

I will NEVER suggest anyone, no matter how safe/careful they are learn on a 600.

As for "wasting your money on a 500" apparently all other new riders in the world have stopped looking for a bike. These things sell like hotcakes. Buy used, ride for a year or two, sell it off for 90% of what you paid for it...

Kind of a narrow minded attitude. Not everyone needs or wants a sport bike. If I had to go five hundred miles on a sport bike, I'd leave it home and take the bus. They simply aren't designed for long distance riding. The entire point of them is performance, that's why they don't come with bags and a windshield.
We all have our preferences, that's why there are so many different bikes, the trick is to figure out what you want to do with it, then find what matches your needs.

Heh, I had a friend ride an '03 600RR from Birmingham, AL to the MotoGP race at Laguna Seca...not sure how much he enjoyed the ride although he is an endurance racer...maybe he could handle it.

That is seriously some of the worst advice ever. I've ridden with a number of people who bought 600cc super sports as a first bike and I can outride all of them on my SV. Some of them are downright scary to ride with...but at least they know their limitations for the most part. One of them was on his second SS after wrecking his first one...he's the guy on the blue race replica in this photo (I took this pic on Palomar Mountain about a month ago). He's lucky he didn't kill himself.

+1, people seem to think that the fastest route to becoming a good rider is to get your dream bike to start on and learn to harness/tame it instead of starting small and building your skills until you're ready to ride it to it's potential.

I've got a friend who started on an '89 Hawk 650 and he rode for several years and started racing on it. Won the WERA SE region LWT class on it and moved up to D superbike on an '07 YZF-R6 and the bike scares him. He's still fast as heck on it but the thing is a monster.

Man, that's going to hurt WHEN you drop that bike for the first time.

Heh, I was thinking the same thing. How much do Ducati OEM plastics cost again D:

You and me seem to be of similar mindset Jules...oh. I started on an EX500 and moved to an SV650S and LOVED the bike. Had to sell it though, got stolen and after I recovered it I realized I don't have a good place to store it. When I get a house w/garage though I will be buying another.

To anyone who thinks that starting on a 600cc (or bigger) supersport is a good idea at least read this.

 

[Jeff7181]

My ZX6R is/was my first bike. I haven't put nearly as many miles as I would have liked to by now (I bought it at the end of 2008) because of a knee injury (not related to the bike).

I dropped it once, but other than that I haven't had any incidents. So the story of how I dropped it goes like this... I was making a right turn from a side street onto a 55 mph road. A car was approaching with it's right turn signal on, I waited for it to get closer and slow down more so I was sure it was turning before me... when I saw him start making the turn I started to pull forward and was going to make a wide turn because the road slopes down and away at that corner. As I was letting the clutch out slowly (because in addition to the slope of the road, it's greasy blacktop with tar strips on it) and going maybe 5 mph I heard a car horn to my left, so I snapped my head back in that direction and saw another car approaching behind the other one flashing it's lights, then the first car that was turning suddenly straightened out moved back into the lane... so I grabbed a handful of brake and clutch and stopped on a dime, of course, but I was already leaning into the turn and down it went. Neither car stopped.

Aside from that I've never had a major incident, but I have had some "oh shit" moments that probably wouldn't have been as intense had I been on a more tame machine. For example, a car merging when I didn't expect it to as I was rounding a turn... had to stand the bike up to move into the left lane (I was already aware there were no cars behind me because I checked as I approached the curve)... when I leaned back over to continue the turn now in the left lane, I felt the rear step out a bit. I'm surprised I didn't let off the throttle because thinking about how it felt, I thought that would have been my natural reaction... thankfully it wasn't... maybe due to everything I've heard/read about NOT letting off the throttle when the rear end steps out.

Anyway... you may regret it if you start out on a super sport. I do at times... actually... I wish I had a Ninja 250 in addition to my ZX6 to take to the track and really give it hell.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Another vote for a CBR600RR, just take a MSF class.

 

[SithSolo1]

I've yet to see anything bad written about the newer ninja 250s, seems like everyone likes them.

 

[zylander]

Another vote for a CBR600RR, just take a MSF class.

This. As long as you take a MSF class, are responsible and can control yourself, it shouldnt matter what you start out on.

 

[Fenixgoon]

This. As long as you take a MSF class, are responsible and can control yourself, it shouldnt matter what you start out on.

for the reasons listed above?


i still think a UJM would be perfect for starter bike (or if he wants something more updated, something like a GS500 or ninja250)

i took an MSF class and i can tell you right now, i would not have wanted to start on a 600cc+ supersport. waaaaaay too much power that's way too accessible to the new/novice rider.

 

[Kabob]

I've yet to see anything bad written about the newer ninja 250s, seems like everyone likes them.

It is a fantastic bike. Sporty enough so you don't feel silly (if you're the kind of guy who worries about that) yet tame enough to let you ride it hard and build your skills.

This. As long as you take a MSF class, are responsible and can control yourself, it shouldnt matter what you start out on.

Yes, a 4 hour MSF course will essentially give you the same experience as 1-2 years of skilled riding...

MSF course is an EXCELLENT starting point and will teach you the basics of riding but that doesn't ingrain you with the correct reactions for various situations. Sure, you CAN learn on a supersport but the performance and handling characteristics of the bike make it more difficult to do so.

 

[Zenmervolt]

As long as you take a MSF class, are responsible and can control yourself, it shouldnt matter what you start out on.

One of the first things they'll teach you in an MSF course is that it's a bad idea to start out on a 600cc sportbike. There's a reason that MSF courses use 250cc bikes for their beginner riding classes.

ZV

 

[jaha2000]

i still think we need a graduated system here like they have in Europe.
It would keep all of our insurance rates down cause people that have never ridden would not go out and by an 848.

I am 28 and have been riding bikes since i was 6. The first time i ever flogged on my 675 it flat scared the crap out of me, there is NO comparison to how fast a modern supersport is, let alone a liter bike. I dont care how prepared you think you are for it, your not, period. If you say your going to be "careful" and "not speed" on a sport bike are crazy, they are made for high speed and fast corners. Even on the 675 100 mph is 3rd gear, how is that good for a newbie?

For some reason people dont get the same hard on about what bike you ride when you start in dirt. I would equate it to this, starting at a sportbike might as be like starting on a Open Class 2 stroke dirtbike. Sure you can go slow and be careful on it, but the first time you make a mistake its going to hurt you, BAD.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

My replies are in Bold...

I read/hear/argue with the exact same points every single spring. There are always the guys like oilfieldtrash who get through without any major mistakes, but there are 20 others who post for about 6 months before they totally disappear - usually because they had an accident after ignoring everyone's advice.




Good luck.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

It is a fantastic bike. Sporty enough so you don't feel silly (if you're the kind of guy who worries about that) yet tame enough to let you ride it hard and build your skills.



Yes, a 4 hour MSF course will essentially give you the same experience as 1-2 years of skilled riding...

MSF course is an EXCELLENT starting point and will teach you the basics of riding but that doesn't ingrain you with the correct reactions for various situations. Sure, you CAN learn on a supersport but the performance and handling characteristics of the bike make it more difficult to do so.

I completely disagree. There is NO way to learn proper throttle and brake control without actually practicing it to make it second nature. Same as the idiot with the 848 - he will eventually HAVE to panic stop. WHEN he does, those brembos will drop him flat on his face. Doing things like subconsciously loading up the front suspension before braking cannot be taught in an MSF class. Learning how to stop, accelerate, and turn properly is extremely difficult on a supersport.


If you take two mentally identical new riders, put one on a GS500 and the other on an 600SS I guarantee that the GS500 rider will be faster AND safer after 6 months if put on the same bike.


Edited: Sarcasm fail on my part......

 

[zylander]

One of the first things they'll teach you in an MSF course is that it's a bad idea to start out on a 600cc sportbike. There's a reason that MSF courses use 250cc bikes for their beginner riding classes.

ZV

MSF uses 250cc bikes and smaller because they are slow and have weaker brakes. Most students wont go over 20mph in the class some might hit 30mph. They want their beginner riders on bikes that dont have a lot of torque or power and have brakes where you can mash down on them and not lock up the wheels. Everyone is different but they just want to make sure that no matter who is on their bikes they wont be able to do anything very stupid.

Do I think everyone should go out and buy a 600cc or larger sport bike like an R6, GSXR600, ect? No but, if you did well in the class, have a good head on your shoulders, can control yourself and your wrist, are capable of telling yourself when you are reaching your limit and are physically able to handle the bike you get, it should matter what you start out on. (By physically able, I mean, you can reach the ground you can pick up the bike, just in general the bike isnt physically too big for you.)

Two months after passing the class I went out and bought an SV1000s. It was comfortable and I was able to ride it without feeling cramped (Im 6'4" and weigh 220lbs). I knew when I was going too fast and when it was time to calm down and take my hand off the throttle.

That was two years ago, if I had to go back, I would do the exact same thing.

 

[Kabob]

I completely disagree.

I was being sarcastic to his post. You and I are exactly on the same page.

Trust me, I'd been riding for 2+ years the first time I threw my leg over my brother in law's 2000 R1 (only ~130 hp)...that thing scared the crap out of me and I KNEW throttle control and how to ride.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I was being sarcastic to his post. You and I are exactly on the same page.

Trust me, I'd been riding for 2+ years the first time I threw my leg over my brother in law's 2000 R1 (only ~130 hp)...that thing scared the crap out of me and I KNEW throttle control and how to ride.

Ooooo sorry, sarcasm fail on my part..

 

[BlackTigers]

im registered for an MSF class, so getting that out of the way in about two weeks.

i just need to get some more money for a bike. part of me wants to buy an older bike that's been trashed, and just..fix it. im assuming working on a bike is similar (easier?) to working on a car, and will likely be cheaper.

 

[Zenmervolt]

MSF uses 250cc bikes and smaller because they are slow and have weaker brakes. Most students wont go over 20mph in the class some might hit 30mph. They want their beginner riders on bikes that dont have a lot of torque or power and have brakes where you can mash down on them and not lock up the wheels. Everyone is different but they just want to make sure that no matter who is on their bikes they wont be able to do anything very stupid.

Sorry, but even after finishing an MSF class you're still a beginner rider. Even the full weekend course doesn't magically give a person riding experience to catapult them out of the beginner category.

You've managed to list exactly the reasons why a beginner should not have a 600cc sportbike (a very unforgiving machine), but have somehow also managed to convince yourself that those reasons don't actually apply to people when they're outside of the heavily-controlled class conditions. The inherent unpredictability of real-world riding makes it more important that riders stick to 500cc or less if they are getting sportbikes when compared to the MSF class conditions.

Do I think everyone should go out and buy a 600cc or larger sport bike like an R6, GSXR600, ect? No but, if you did well in the class, have a good head on your shoulders, can control yourself and your wrist, are capable of telling yourself when you are reaching your limit and are physically able to handle the bike you get, it should matter what you start out on. (By physically able, I mean, you can reach the ground you can pick up the bike, just in general the bike isnt physically too big for you.)

As has already been pointed out, the class is not a substitute for experience. You have apparently missed this link in its entirety. I have never met a rider who didn't make a mistake every now and then, especially during the first three years to five years of riding.

A 600cc sportbike isn't going to tolerate mistakes well at all. Hit a pothole and accidentally twist the throttle? Been nice knowing you. Panic and grab too much front brake? I wish you luck my friend. Encounter tramlining for the first time at 70 mph on the freeway with a sportbike's inherent twitchiness? Here's hoping that you recover.

You might as well suggest that a person who did well on his driving test just go right out and get a 427 Cobra for their first car. I don't care how well a person has done on basic driving or riding tests or classes, a racing machine that is only just barely made street legal is a bad idea for a first vehicle. It doesn't matter how much a person might think he's better than most.

An interesting statistic is that 90% of drivers believe they have "above average" driving ability while also believing that 60% of the other drivers have less skill. Notice how those two percentages don't even come close to adding up. Almost everyone overestimates their own abilities.

And, as I said, if you ask the people who are actually running the MSF course, they will tell you that buying a 600cc sportbike for a first bike is a bad idea.

Two months after passing the class I went out and bought an SV1000s. It was comfortable and I was able to ride it without feeling cramped (Im 6'4" and weigh 220lbs). I knew when I was going too fast and when it was time to calm down and take my hand off the throttle.

That was two years ago, if I had to go back, I would do the exact same thing.

Two whole years of riding. That's almost enough for me not to consider you a novice. Almost.

ZV

 

[SpatiallyAware]

im registered for an MSF class, so getting that out of the way in about two weeks.

i just need to get some more money for a bike. part of me wants to buy an older bike that's been trashed, and just..fix it. im assuming working on a bike is similar (easier?) to working on a car, and will likely be cheaper.

Working on a bike is, imo, easier since many riders do their own stuff. With most 'starter' bikes (GS/Ninja 500, SV to an extent) there are forums where you can figure out how to deal with almost anything.

My personal favorite starter bike is a GS500. They're tons of fun in the mtns, easy to work on and maintain (learn to adjust valves, etc..). They also drop better (less plastics)

 

[Fenixgoon]

im registered for an MSF class, so getting that out of the way in about two weeks.

i just need to get some more money for a bike. part of me wants to buy an older bike that's been trashed, and just..fix it. im assuming working on a bike is similar (easier?) to working on a car, and will likely be cheaper.

definitely easier (at least for old bikes). my bike is a 1982 model - everything is mechanical - springs, tensioned wires, etc. it's great because you can see how everything works without fancy electronics in the way.

 

[Kabob]

im registered for an MSF class, so getting that out of the way in about two weeks.

i just need to get some more money for a bike. part of me wants to buy an older bike that's been trashed, and just..fix it. im assuming working on a bike is similar (easier?) to working on a car, and will likely be cheaper.

My first bike cost me a whopping $1800 out of pocket. It was a six year old Ninja EX500 that was in decent condition, a little bit of rash and it needed a new battery and a tune up. It cost me $200 to get it into riding condition. It wasn't pretty but it was a very solid bike.

My second bike was much better, I got a one year old (06) SV650S with one blemish (tiny crack in front fairing) and 1100 miles from a guy who was moving from Birmingham to Chicago and had to sell it ASAP...$3200 :awe:

That was stolen two months later though...

The point is you don't have to spend alot of coin to get a good bike.

 

[BlackTigers]

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/1714639110.html


Those are decent starter bikes?

edit: FWIW, I've ridden a 250CC 2-stroke dirt bike, and a CBR600. While I could handle the 600, I'd do something retarded on it, being 18 and all.