Enough of the "cloud" computing crap. ENOUGH!

[drebo]

QFT...most of the large enterprise level corporations including the one I work for are very interested in moving to cloud-based backend.

It's just like people that laughed at back ups going from tape to disk, local server drives to shared SANs, etc.

On a cloud you can deploy data deduplication, cache common hits, etc.

A cloud-based backend is a very different thing from cloud-based frontends, which is what this thread is about.

No one objects to virtualizing the datacenter or using a SAN for storage.

Certain applications lend theirselves well to the cloud (Hosted Exchange/Gmail, document management, hosted PBX). Others don't (mostly front-end stuff, such as games or high def video). The complaint is that some people think EVERYTHING should be in the cloud. And, by everything, people mean that their home computer should be a thin client. That's not a good idea. That can work in some cases, but not really.

Imagine having to burn a DVD over consumer broadband. My 4.6gb of data would take about 5 minutes on my PC, but even at 12Mbps on my Comcast Cable, it would take an impossibly long time. The problem scales exponentially. We got away from mainframe computing for a reason.

There already exist applications that facilitate data access over the Internet. Remote access VPNs, Citrix, Remote Desktop, Logmein, GotoMyPC, etc, etc. I don't want to have to go through that hassle and take that kind of performance hit EVERY time I want to use my computer. For the few times that I need to access my computer remotely, Logmein has worked flawlessly. Before that, I used Remote Desktop. Before that, VNC.

I don't need all of my data stored in the cloud for it to be able to be accessed from anywhere.

 

[coloumb]

Oracle tried to push "cloud" computing many years ago - they had the idea to replace computers with "dumb" terminals which then every aspect of your job would be performed on a remote server. I think this was back when high speed internet was in it's infancy.

Cloud computing is awesome - I just log in via Citrix to my desktop [stored on a remote server] from anywhere with a fast internet connection. I can work on documents and calendars via Sharepoint, access company documents, file time card, etc without needing my work laptop.

 

[Mike Gayner]

I hate the term "cloud" computing - it's just an invented marketing term for something most of us have been doing for ages anyway. "Cloud" is a meaningless term. Notice how you can replace the word "cloud" with "internet" in almost any sentence and it has the same meaning? Starting to see now that it's just a bunch of marketing bullshit?

 

[vi edit]

I hate the term "cloud" computing - it's just an invented marketing term for something most of us have been doing for ages anyway. "Cloud" is a meaningless term. Notice how you can replace the word "cloud" with "internet" in almost any sentence and it has the same meaning? Starting to see now that it's just a bunch of marketing bullshit?

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it's not correct. Yes it's a marketing buzzword but it's hardly synonymous or interchangable with "the internet".

 

[drebo]

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it's not correct. Yes it's a marketing buzzword but it's hardly synonymous or interchangable with "the internet".

All clouds are internetworks, but not all internetworks are clouds?

Software as a Service is a great thing, and I'm making tons of money on it, but we will never replace desktop computers. It's not feasible. We can replace certain things...physical phone lines, physical phones, some types of servers...but in the end, we still need local processing and local file storage. That need will never go away.

 

[Mike Gayner]

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it's not correct. Yes it's a marketing buzzword but it's hardly synonymous or interchangable with "the internet".

Find me a sentence with "cloud" in it where it wouldn't have exactly the same meaning if it said "internet".

 

[Codewiz]

There are two different aspects of cloud computing, consumer and developer(including O&M here)

For a consumer, cloud computing can just bring some features that are nice. Dropbox is a good example. I have my files no matter where I go.

For the developer, it is something different. I can write an application and use Amazon S3 for storage. I no longer have to maintain that data storage device. I know that I can get more storage without the hardware hassles. As far as infrastructure, that storage doesn't have to be maintained. It is storage as a service. Additionally, with services such as the Google App Engine, you also don't have to worry about the underlying operating system or maintenance. It is pretty much a platform as a service that you don't have to maintain. That is very powerful. It allows a developer to concentrate on developing their application, not on standing up servers and configuring them.

 

[Dumac]

Find me a sentence with "cloud" in it where it wouldn't have exactly the same meaning if it said "internet".

Today is cloudy with a chance of rain

 

[bignateyk]

Cloud be with you.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Heh, reminds me of the whole knowledge/document/records management craze. The solution is to "put everything on SharePoint." The only problem is that nobody can find the information they are looking for.

If you can't find what you're looking for on Sharepoint, one of four things is happening:

1. Your Sharepoint environment is configured incorrectly.
2. Your Sharepoint solution was not architected correctly.
3. You haven't trained your end users.
4. The information is not there.

Seriously, of all the complaints I have about Sharepoint, finding things is near the very bottom of the list.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

lol, great call. Sharepoint is a waste of time.

It depends what you want to accomplish. I guarantee you that if you're in an organization that is frequently involved in litigation, document retention, version control, and other document management features are essential. You're simply not going to realistically achieve those goals using file shares. If not Sharepoint, it would be something else.

It can also be used for a ton of different applications -- document management is but one component.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

excellent point. i hate sharepoint and so does everybody else in our IT dept. we have put so much shit in sharepoint i cant find a damn thing. if i do a search it takes like 15 minutes to get a result and that result is a fricken list of crap i have to sort through to find what i am looking for.

If doing a search in Sharepoint takes 15 minutes, the people maintaining your Sharepoint environment don't know what they're doing or they spec'ed out the hardware incorrectly. Seriously, we have sites with 1 million+ documents and you can find them in seconds.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Hey now, that was my quote, not CPA's!

Our corporate SharePoint has probably 10,000 items in it. Just to piss everyone off I am considering tying in our external app and dumping those documents in...all 55,000

LOL, 55,000 documents? Are you being serious? 55,000 is child's play. Seriously, I have an individual site with 1 million+ documents in it and that site isn't even our main file repository. I'd imagine that when everything is moved in, we'll have 3 million live documents growing at a rate of 500,000 to 1 million per year.

Seriously guys, reading some of these comments, I really have to wonder about your IT departments. I have a lot of work to do on my Sharepoint environment to optimize performance more, but damn, it sounds like a Ferrari compared to your Yugos.

 

[Modelworks]

Find me a sentence with "cloud" in it where it wouldn't have exactly the same meaning if it said "internet".

I bought some books off the cloud.


The difference is in how they are marketing cloud computing. Using cloud to just say online storage isn't what they are intending. The whole reason for the push to cloud computing is to offload the end point hardware to a server . Corporations pushing cloud computing want everything to be thin clients.

 

[Homerboy]

Ya know Indy, I should talk to you about a SP solution for my office sometime...
"The Powers that Be" are/were going down a different path with a different program, and I honestly think it's just the wrong freaking way.

Let me know if you got some time sometime....

 

[Homerboy]

Oh as for the OP... heh I just got in an "Argument" about this with my brother the other day while watching the Packers game.

I had to explain what "The Cloud" was compared to "Cloud Computing"
Basically, I think MS is selling "The Cloud" as "The Internet". Meaning everything YOU want to access is on "The Cloud". It's all connected. Remember those cute Visio network diagrams of your LAN? What picture was always used to signify "The Internet"? A Cloud.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Ya know Indy, I should talk to you about a SP solution for my office sometime...
"The Powers that Be" are/were going down a different path with a different program, and I honestly think it's just the wrong freaking way.

Let me know if you got some time sometime....

No problem. I don't want to disillusion you, though -- Sharepoint is a huge, complicated beast and can be painful to set up and configure. I made a lot of mistakes when I originally started setting things up but I've learned a lot since then and know how I would do it differently. I'm just debating whether to invest time in optimizing the current environment or leaving it as is and concentrating on our 2010 migration.

Feel free to PM me any time.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I remember that, and Microsoft is still pushing it. See: Office Live.

This is the only big player I see pushing it...hard. Look at those silly commercials where the guy quits his job at the coffee shop...c'mon now.

"Cloud" computing still has a ways to go.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

I am not a cloud fan, I want a server I can kick when it acts up, or someone i can choke when they do something stupid. I dont want to get some BS email saying how sorry XYZ cloud provider is that they had issues

 

[trmiv]

excellent point. i hate sharepoint and so does everybody else in our IT dept. we have put so much shit in sharepoint i cant find a damn thing. if i do a search it takes like 15 minutes to get a result and that result is a fricken list of crap i have to sort through to find what i am looking for. But the company brass was sold on it and made us install it and made the rest of the dev dept use it. ive just come to the realization im just a IT monkey and just do what im told even if it is a bad decision.

This sounds exactly like where I work. We get pushed to put every single document on sharepoint, update sharepoint calendars, etc. Meanwhile whenever I need something and someone says "oh it's on sharepoint" I can't find the damn thing. Or if you wonder where someone is, they ask if you consulted the sharepoint calendar. Which, no, I didn't because it takes 47 years to open the damn thing and it was quicker just to ask if someone knows.

If you can't find what you're looking for on Sharepoint, one of four things is happening:

1. Your Sharepoint environment is configured incorrectly.
2. Your Sharepoint solution was not architected correctly.
3. You haven't trained your end users.
4. The information is not there.

Seriously, of all the complaints I have about Sharepoint, finding things is near the very bottom of the list.

I agree. The problem is, what you just described is exactly how sharepoint is implemented at most companies. Upper management pushes it, but doesn't take the time to make sure it's implemented correctly and train people on it, and it becomes a mess. That's pretty much what it has become where I work.

 

[JTsyo]

Here's how it works in a nutshell- all apps are web based, and stored on central servers. Therefore everything is available from any Internet connection, and in theory you can work from any location. Your information and apps are not tied to a computer, they follow you anywhere you go.

Google docs?

 

[halik]

Define cloud computing and how it works. IMHO it's a lot of marketing on vmware, google, MS, etc.

This is where I mentioned data center bridging and virtualization. You need serious long distance bandwidth to do that. It can be done and I'm onboard with that.

I thought it was software-agnostic load balancing?

Leveraging the n-tier architecture with distributed underpinnings to enhance the social media aspect of your 3D nexus ...

 

[vi edit]

Find me a sentence with "cloud" in it where it wouldn't have exactly the same meaning if it said "internet".

I can play that game, find a sentence where "leader of the free world" doesn't mean President of the United States.

Or, how about when you tell somebody you are going to the store. You tell them you are "going to the store" not to your driveway, then the car and then the high way and then the store. Just to the store.

Cloud computing and "internet" aren't the same thing. The "internet" is simply the pathway to get there. The "Cloud" is a purpose built architecture provided by (likely) a single developer to distribute specific content and services to you.

 

[mb]

I like the MS cloud commercials.

Can I come too?
NOoo


to the cloud!
what?
yay cloud

 

[PingSpike]

I bought some books off the cloud.

Isn't that replacing internet in a sentence with cloud. I thought he specified the other way around?