I know that freedom of speech is not universal, but I was addressing the question in the topic. It's okay for private businesses to only do business in one language(although probably not good for business), but I believe that the 1st Amendment implies that federal, state, and local governments must make their services availible to all citizens, no matter what language(s) they speak.
shiner
Lifer
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If they don't want to learn the language then they shouldn't be here. It's just that simple. This country was built by immigrants and the ones that came over back then that couldn't speak English learned to. Why can't today's immigrants? The example of blind and deaf people is invalid because they cannot help their situation and in that instance the government should make sure they have access to the same forms, publications, etc.. that the sighted have. That is not the case for someone who has the ability to learn but more often than not doesn't want to. Their unwillingness to learn places and unnecessary burden on the rest of us by forcing us to pay for their laziness. The government was not setup to take care of people from cradle to grave in spite of what most liberals think.
shiner
Lifer
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That is not the case unless you want to bend the meaning of the Constitution. It was written to insure that the government cannot practice censorship or suppress speech that it does not agree with. It was not written to insure that every immigrant into this country has paperwork designed especially for them.
If they don't want to learn the language then they shouldn't be here. It's just that simple.
says who? you? there is nothing that says the language of america is english, you just wish there was.
This country was built by immigrants and the ones that came over back then that couldn't speak English learned to. Why can't today's immigrants? The example of blind and deaf people is invalid because they cannot help their situation and in that instance the government should make sure they have access to the same forms, publications, etc.. that the sighted have. That is not the case for someone who has the ability to learn but more often than not doesn't want to. Their unwillingness to learn places and unnecessary burden on the rest of us by forcing us to pay for their laziness. The government was not setup to take care of people from cradle to grave in spite of what most liberals think.
did you not read the post you replied to? go back and read it again. there are people who simply do not have the resources to learn a new language. i wouldn't be able to learn a new language either, if i was working my ass off just to get by. hell, i can't learn a new language now.
says who? you? there is nothing that says the language of america is english, you just wish there was.
This country was built by immigrants and the ones that came over back then that couldn't speak English learned to. Why can't today's immigrants? The example of blind and deaf people is invalid because they cannot help their situation and in that instance the government should make sure they have access to the same forms, publications, etc.. that the sighted have. That is not the case for someone who has the ability to learn but more often than not doesn't want to. Their unwillingness to learn places and unnecessary burden on the rest of us by forcing us to pay for their laziness. The government was not setup to take care of people from cradle to grave in spite of what most liberals think.
did you not read the post you replied to? go back and read it again. there are people who simply do not have the resources to learn a new language. i wouldn't be able to learn a new language either, if i was working my ass off just to get by. hell, i can't learn a new language now.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
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As I said earlier in this thread....
"No, but I would be willing to bet that most of them are here illegally and don't pay taxes to begin with. That's a stupid question anyway and proves just why they should be required to read/speak the language if they are going to live here."
though i agree with you all, that citizenship should be based on what they can contribute. i'll trade a chronic welfare redneck mom for a hardworking immigrant any day.
If they've been here for 10 years and still can't speak english (many illegal mexican can't), your argument becomes moot. Both local and federal government as well as various social organization has already offered assistance to learn english. If they choose not to learn english, then they should not expect spanish form to be available for them.
Unfortunately, there're not going to be many people that will support any declaration in making English as the national language due to various reasons. Combine that with the massive influx of illegal latinos crossing the border every single year, its only a matter of time before US becomes a bilingual country all together. My guess Texas will be the very first one to implement it in about 10-15 yrs from now.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
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[/b]
No, the fact is that the majority of the population speaks English and has since this country was founded. If you want to make it here you better do the same. Try moving to France and see how forgiving they are if you don't speak their language.
That's BS. People that have immigrated to this country throughout history have been able to learn it. Don't tell me that the Chinese working on the railroads or the Polish working the coal mines had it worse than immigrants do today. Yet in spite of their hardships they managed to learn English
No, the fact is that the majority of the population speaks English and has since this country was founded. If you want to make it here you better do the same. Try moving to France and see how forgiving they are if you don't speak their language.
"speaks english" could be replaced with "believes in god" but i'm reluctant to make christianity our official religion. it's one thing to say "you need to know english to succeed", it's another to say "you need to know english or you get none of the benefits you're supposed to get". btw, i don't want to move to france.
That's BS. People that have immigrated to this country throughout history have been able to learn it. Don't tell me that the Chinese working on the railroads or the Polish working the coal mines had it worse than immigrants do today. Yet in spite of their hardships they managed to learn English
i'm not saying that they won't eventually learn... but when you start out in a new place, it's hard to do it quickly... what if you need to fill out a form and you haven't learned english yet?
"speaks english" could be replaced with "believes in god" but i'm reluctant to make christianity our official religion. it's one thing to say "you need to know english to succeed", it's another to say "you need to know english or you get none of the benefits you're supposed to get". btw, i don't want to move to france.
That's BS. People that have immigrated to this country throughout history have been able to learn it. Don't tell me that the Chinese working on the railroads or the Polish working the coal mines had it worse than immigrants do today. Yet in spite of their hardships they managed to learn English
i'm not saying that they won't eventually learn... but when you start out in a new place, it's hard to do it quickly... what if you need to fill out a form and you haven't learned english yet?
I just take that number as an example to counter your argument that these people is unable to learn english due to their situation. In truth, most of these people simply refused to learnt english because they don't feel the need to. Call them arrogant, ignorant or clueless, the fact remain that its their decision not to learn english, and it should not be the burden of the taxpayers to accomodate them (especially if they're here illegally).
If you insist to accomodate these people, then why is it most of these form is only in spanish? What about the chinese, the vietnamnese, the russian,etc who also doesn't speak english ? Why isn't there a form for them? Is it just because they don't have the numbers nor the political powers of the latinos, they've become less important and can be forced to learn English without so many people crying foul ?
Sounds pretty discriminatory and racist to me.
and if they can't, then they are screwed, even though they work hard, pay taxes, and contribute to our society more than many english speakers do.
forms are in chinese... tagalog even. at least it is where i live, and at least for the forms i've seen. i really don't know about mexicans, i only have experience with the asian community (not too many mexicans in seattle). and yes, i insist we make public services accessibile to these people.
i've got to go do homework.
long story short, people should be able to get whatever benefits they are entitled to. since being able to read signs is part of traffic safety, the signs should not be translated (are they? i thought it was just the manuals). whatever the case, it is simply wrong to force people to learn a new language by withholding benefits they are legally entitled to. requirements for many benefits do not include "must speak english", therefore the fact that they do not speak english should not prevent them from receiving them. if you want them to learn a new language, you need to find a legitimate way to do this.
long story short, people should be able to get whatever benefits they are entitled to. since being able to read signs is part of traffic safety, the signs should not be translated (are they? i thought it was just the manuals). whatever the case, it is simply wrong to force people to learn a new language by withholding benefits they are legally entitled to. requirements for many benefits do not include "must speak english", therefore the fact that they do not speak english should not prevent them from receiving them. if you want them to learn a new language, you need to find a legitimate way to do this.
Then you simply prove my point, which show that not all the people with english deficiency is treated equally. If you think its fair for the people of USA to shoulder the cost of all these forms and other service (multiple language officers, multiple language forms, multiple language service center, etc), especially if they're provided to non-citizen/illegals, then more power to you. I just hope there're fewer of you than those that think otherwise.
Then you simply prove my point, which show that not all the people with english deficiency is treated equally.
what? where did i say that?
If you think its fair for the people of USA to shoulder the cost of all these forms and other service (multiple language officers, multiple language forms, multiple language service center, etc), especially if they're provided to non-citizen/illegals, then more power to you. I just hope there're fewer of you than those that think otherwise.
perhaps i was getting off topic, but my above posts sums up how i feel about this. if speaking english was meant to be a requirement, they would have put it as a requirement.
what? where did i say that?
If you think its fair for the people of USA to shoulder the cost of all these forms and other service (multiple language officers, multiple language forms, multiple language service center, etc), especially if they're provided to non-citizen/illegals, then more power to you. I just hope there're fewer of you than those that think otherwise.
perhaps i was getting off topic, but my above posts sums up how i feel about this. if speaking english was meant to be a requirement, they would have put it as a requirement.
Err....what kind of benefits are they legally entitled to if they're here illegally to begin with ?
we're talking about people who can't speak english, not illegal aliens. as much as you'd like to just make them equal to each other, they're not.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
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Unless you are born here or have become a citizen you aren't entitled to any benefits from our government just because you live here. Hell I have a problem with people that were born here and want to suck of the government's tit when they are able to work. In my opinion the only thing you are entitled to when you are born is that some day you will die. That's another thread though.....
The bottom line is this. Live here and expect to be treated like everyone else and have the same access to government programs, etc? Then learn the language.
Unfortunately, thats the stigma that they will face in today's society. And there's legitimate way for them to learn English. Granted, it might not be sufficient enough, but its there to be used. I just disagree that we have to shift the burden from their shoulder to the government to learn something that will benefit them greatly.
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