SonicIce
Diamond Member
- Apr 12, 2004
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DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: foghorn67
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Heh, nationalist bias aside, good on everyone involved in this. You'll notice that this isn't taking place in the University of Michigan
Pretty much my point, but the flag waving cheeseburger truck nuts clan turned up. *rabble rabble*
So it's okay to be a union jack waving fish n' chip lorry nut?
*DivideBYZero observes foghorn67's raw nerve. Touches it.
Not really, they didn't say how long those prototypes run before needing maintenance. For all we know, this could be an idea that is derailed by common occurrences and may never pan out.
Burning off carbon with a laser would be very hard to do.
It's dark in color so it would absorb light, and its boiling point is 7281 degrees F. The lens would melt before you got the carbon off.
Originally posted by: Engineer
I told a buddy at work that we should buy Ford when it was $1.03 because of the same reasons. I thought hard about it and now wish that I had followed through. Live and learn, I guess!
Ford was basically unlikely for many reasons, including being run by a guy who wasn't an auto CEO and was used to big government contracts and subsidies at his previous company.
However, their finances are clearly better run than the rest of the Big 3. Seems rather obvious in hindsight to exercise their large credit line before it evaporated, but if it were obvious, the whole market wouldn't be where it is right now. Credit was way too fast and loose, and Ford took advantage of some good terms, and as a result isn't being run by Congress.
To be 100% honest, I expected my investment to disappear. Just got lucky on that one, it's rare
- Oct 22, 2000
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They also said that Ford has plans to move this to production engines in the next few years. That seems to indicate that this is a reasonably mature technology.
ZV
- Oct 22, 2000
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You have absolutely no idea how big of an efficiency gain this could be for engines, do you? This would allow higher compression (more efficiency) on lower octane fuel, it would allow more flexibility in valve design (more efficiency), and multi-spark ignition (more efficiency). The potential gains are quite significant.
There is a saying about how the perfect is the enemy of the good and these new prototypes from Ford are the good. Hydrogen combustion or fuel cell may well be "the perfect" in this case, but that's no reason to stop making what we have right now better in the interim.
ZV
Yup, would basically shift the compression threshold from the detonation point to the cooling capacity of the engine. Then again, head casting would require better cleanup, depending on how far they pushed it. A little bit of casting flash around the valve seats would be bad...
I don't know much about lasers. What causes them to fail? Heat?
That's the beauty of this design. The laser is mounted remotely, and its beam is routed via a fiber optic cable
- Oct 22, 2000
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The spark plugs are still the biggest factor for hot spots in the combustion chamber. The move to HT (High Thread) plugs for the Mustang's 24 valve V8 allowed a significant increase in compression while still using 87 octane fuel.
Even without cleaning up the casting there is a lot of improvement to be gained by eliminating the spark plug form the combustion chamber.
ZV
If they can figure out how to spread the laser throughout the chamber rather than a single focus, that would improve combustion efficiency. Hell, if the laser was flexible enough, you could run whatever you want as fuel as long as it can oxidize.
Knavish
Senior member
- May 17, 2002
- 910
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I (also) really don't see how they'll keep the optics clean, unless they just use this for something like hydrogen burning engines. Maybe you'll have to take your car in for a tuneup every couple of oil changes to get the optics cleaned.
I also don't see how they would focus the laser to multiple places in the cylinder without having a couple cm of space around every cylinder to route fiber optics -- maybe they can embed fiber into the head ??
I also don't see how they would focus the laser to multiple places in the cylinder without having a couple cm of space around every cylinder to route fiber optics -- maybe they can embed fiber into the head ??
This would be amazing. It would be akin to infinitely variable valve timing in the gains that it could produce. Me likey! Me want!
As far as the carbon buildup issue goes.. That is easily dealt with. The optics would not be engineered into the head itself. My guess is that there would still be a spark-plug like device, but it could be much smaller.. even 1/8" in diameter. Even 1/4" would be a great improvement. You would just have to replace the optical "plug" that either the laser or the fiber optic cable connected to.
But in a properly running engine, carbon buildup is not an issue.. Modern ECUs adjust fuel/air ratio for all scenarios.. you don't have the problems of carbon buildup like with a carbureted engine when someone drives like a granny.
The real issue would be when the engine started nearing end of life and began burning oil.
As far as the carbon buildup issue goes.. That is easily dealt with. The optics would not be engineered into the head itself. My guess is that there would still be a spark-plug like device, but it could be much smaller.. even 1/8" in diameter. Even 1/4" would be a great improvement. You would just have to replace the optical "plug" that either the laser or the fiber optic cable connected to.
But in a properly running engine, carbon buildup is not an issue.. Modern ECUs adjust fuel/air ratio for all scenarios.. you don't have the problems of carbon buildup like with a carbureted engine when someone drives like a granny.
The real issue would be when the engine started nearing end of life and began burning oil.
1prophet
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 5,313
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
The spark plugs are still the biggest factor for hot spots in the combustion chamber. The move to HT (High Thread) plugs for the Mustang's 24 valve V8 allowed a significant increase in compression while still using 87 octane fuel.
Even without cleaning up the casting there is a lot of improvement to be gained by eliminating the spark plug form the combustion chamber.
ZV
Except the brilliant engineers who designed that plug seem to have completely forgotten that most people don't trade their cars in before the first tune-up.
3V Spark plug change hell
- Oct 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
The spark plugs are still the biggest factor for hot spots in the combustion chamber. The move to HT (High Thread) plugs for the Mustang's 24 valve V8 allowed a significant increase in compression while still using 87 octane fuel.
Even without cleaning up the casting there is a lot of improvement to be gained by eliminating the spark plug form the combustion chamber.
ZV
Except the brilliant engineers who designed that plug seem to have completely forgotten that most people don't trade their cars in before the first tune-up.
3V Spark plug change hell
Spark plugs can seize in an aluminum-head engine?! No-one has ever encountered anything like that before in the history of cars!
In all seriousness, this is a minor issue at best and it is absolutely true that the HT plugs allow a higher compression ratio without resorting to the use of midgrade or premium fuel.
ZV
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