What I've noticed is that if there's a rounded and/or rusted bolt, or one that's been painted over once or twice, that an SAE socket can fit better than the theoretically correct metric socket. Not a very frequent occurrence, but it's nice to have all the bases covered.
- Mar 3, 2008
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Ohhh man if I could count the hours I've been researching information related to the Supra...my bookmarks for just the Supra are beginning to surpass all the other bookmarks I have.
This is the ATG spirit I posted here for.Just an FYI. Lookin forward to a swap thread
I don't think I'll be able to rent a cherry-picker based off the stinginess of the auto parts stores around here. I can afford probably another $500 in parts/tools on top of what's already budgeted. An extra set of hands is readily available, I seem to attract car people lol. Really it comes down to me having the time and willpower.
Habitually I try to do everything correctly, but at the same time I have limited resources. I guess what I will do is start pouring over the TSRM for an idea of the steps, and see if I can create stages to move through from start to finish. Definitely will keep everything bagged/labeled, and will use some gloves.
This is something I have to save up for, so it'll be several months. There's still thinking on my part, but you guys will be kept in the loop of course.
Edit: Yeah the Supra is metric, I have some imperial sockets and some metric ones. Oh and there has been some engineering tests done on 7M head bolts and their yield torque is between 68-72 ft. lbs. I figure 70 ft. lbs. will work well and is significantly higher than the factory 58 ft. lbs.
Edit 2: We've got FuzzyDunlop, jlee, and myself all wrenching/modifying Toyota's from around the same time period. WTF (this is cool). Race to 600hp?
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You sure you have your terminology right? You never want to torque a bolt to yield.
- Mar 3, 2008
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I don't. Sigh, going to look it up...
Edit: And of course it's impossible to find the thread I was reading this info in.
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False. There are some applications where TTY specs are used. TTY helps ensure uniform clamping loads among an array of fasteners, particularly when clamping down automobile heads. IRL yielding is not nearly as scary as it is presented in text books.
I don't know if TTY is appropriate for this application.
http://www.acl.co.nz/Tech/Torque To Yield Headbolts.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque-to-yield_fastener
jlee
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2001
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Edit 2: We've got FuzzyDunlop, jlee, and myself all wrenching/modifying Toyota's from around the same time period. WTF (this is cool). Race to 600hp?
Race to 11 second quarter? :awe:
manimal
Lifer
- Mar 30, 2007
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When my z is done I am gonna pick up a celica all track turbo from 91-92 and make it into a rally inspired resto mod so I can join the 90s toyota toy club.
Theres one with two engines on craiglist now in indy. Must resist..
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/2865563853.html
If you have any trouble and need a quick ear Alkaline PM me with your details. Me and my guys love supras!
- Mar 3, 2008
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I think this is the latest I've stayed up in months haha. Got sucked into reading about 1UZFE's and, well, I think we may have a winner here. Still planning to go ahead with replacing the 7M with another one, but this may be motor #3 for the Supra.
The 89-94 motors have factory forged steel cranks and rods with hyper-eutectic aluminum pistons and aluminum block/heads and go for an easy $250. No defects to be found, and you can drop 3UZFE or 2UZFE heads (better flowing, $500) on them with no modifications. There's a guy in New Jersey running twin CT-26's (factory 7MGTE turbo) on one...
Race to 11 second quarter indeed.
The 89-94 motors have factory forged steel cranks and rods with hyper-eutectic aluminum pistons and aluminum block/heads and go for an easy $250. No defects to be found, and you can drop 3UZFE or 2UZFE heads (better flowing, $500) on them with no modifications. There's a guy in New Jersey running twin CT-26's (factory 7MGTE turbo) on one...
Race to 11 second quarter indeed.
jlee
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2001
- 48,518
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Ooh, I like those. They're heavy, the AWD system is far from modern, and they're a bitch to work on...but I still like them. A lot.
Bignate603
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 13,897
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You're confusing the socket size and the drive size. The socket size is the size of bolt that the socket fits, those come in both SAE and metric. The size in inches that people are giving is the drive size, that square thing on the wrench that the socket hooks on to. They standardized on inch for the drive sizes a looong time ago and there is no metric equivalent.
FuzzyDunlop
Diamond Member
- Jan 30, 2008
- 3,260
- 12
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lol! Gotta keep focus brosef! For now lets just try to get an engine in the bay! and besides, Jlee has a major head start.
Im liking this thread BTW.
Oh and lets not forget about Railgun
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
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QFT, if you aren't a wrenchhead, just borrow tons of tools for free.
That said in 2009, I had over $10k of tools stolen out of my workshop
Another Supra owner, huh? You need to join the SOGI listserv.
http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
I will send out a note to see if anyone can find the archived post. Someone once put together an engine swap tech tip. It was for the 7M-GTE, but the 7M-GE will be pretty similar, except no turbo/associated parts, different bellhousing, and I think a different crossmember.
This is sage advice I once got: ALWAYS pull the engine and transmission together. It's a bitch to bolt them back together in the car.
In the meantime, read this:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?423-7M-GTE-Engine-removal-in-49-easy-steps.
Also, do you have a TSRM? You can find it online, but having an actual bound copy is much better when you're out there working.
http://supras.com/mailman/listinfo/supras_supras.com
I will send out a note to see if anyone can find the archived post. Someone once put together an engine swap tech tip. It was for the 7M-GTE, but the 7M-GE will be pretty similar, except no turbo/associated parts, different bellhousing, and I think a different crossmember.
This is sage advice I once got: ALWAYS pull the engine and transmission together. It's a bitch to bolt them back together in the car.
In the meantime, read this:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?423-7M-GTE-Engine-removal-in-49-easy-steps.
Also, do you have a TSRM? You can find it online, but having an actual bound copy is much better when you're out there working.
I think this is the latest I've stayed up in months haha. Got sucked into reading about 1UZFE's and, well, I think we may have a winner here. Still planning to go ahead with replacing the 7M with another one, but this may be motor #3 for the Supra.
The 89-94 motors have factory forged steel cranks and rods with hyper-eutectic aluminum pistons and aluminum block/heads and go for an easy $250. No defects to be found, and you can drop 3UZFE or 2UZFE heads (better flowing, $500) on them with no modifications. There's a guy in New Jersey running twin CT-26's (factory 7MGTE turbo) on one...
Race to 11 second quarter indeed.
I really don't want to be a buzzkill so stop reading if you don't want to know
An 11 second MK3 Supra is damn near impossible if you don't want a trailer queen. You're starting with an NA motor, so you need to do a turbo swap, preferably a full rebuild. You want the turbo block because it has oil squirters to cool the undersides of the pistons, whereas the NA block lacks that. You also want the turbo cams, and if you're not going to build custom, the turbo 8.4:1 compression. The stock crank can probably handle the 600 HP you need, but you'll want forged rods and pistons. You can try stock, and they'll actually handle the power most likely, but if you screw up your fuel mix just once you're all done. Surprisingly, the stock valve train will also be OK, just get a 3 angle grind and adjust the lash.
Engine management will be trouble. A lot of the cool aftermarket stuff that existed for this car when I got mine (in high school) has been discontinued. You'd probably need to go standalone unless you can get a good, working HKS VPC and some of the associated accessories. You will also need a fuel pump upgrade, the Walbro 255lph still seems to be what folks are using. Injectors will either need to be 550 or 720cc, depending on what you're targeting. Thankfully, you will be able to find some that drop into the stock fuel rail.
It's been a while. Join the Supras (SOGI) list, introduce yourself, and start searching the archives. If you demonstrate that you're doing your homework, those guys will help you.
- Mar 3, 2008
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haha focus yes. I still have homework and upcoming death-by-classload, so those are in my face. Going to keep dreaming though!
EDIT: Wait a sec, that's an FD Mazda RX-7. Toyota what?
One-you-zee-eff-eeI really don't want to be a buzzkill so stop reading if you don't want to know
I know that the 7M's aren't good for big numbers, so I added two cylinders. Re-read the post
Thank you so much though for the links and advice, that's exactly the stuff I'm looking for. This is going to be a rocky road, and I will update the thread as progress occurs/time allows.
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One-you-zee-eff-ee
I know that the 7M's aren't good for big numbers, so I added two cylinders. Re-read the post
Thank you so much though for the links and advice, that's exactly the stuff I'm looking for. This is going to be a rocky road, and I will update the thread as progress occurs/time allows.
1UZ-FE, huh? Sounds awesome, please keep me posted! Do you have access to some fab as well? There will be some work for that one, but it's not impossible. One thing the MK3 has is a gigantic engine bay. Make sure you find a variant with the sump in the location that you want it (there are multiple configurations of this engine, I've read), and that you can get a crossmember. If you want a stick, you will also need a bell housing that can mate your W58 to this thing, but I hear people have produced them - so you may be able to get it second hand.
To add to your tools list and settle some of the debate in this thread, this engine is metric. Some specifics that I've found valuable for my car:
- Get every socket 7mm to 24. I can't remember, but the differential drain bolt is something huge, I want to say 22 or 24mm. I believe the crank pulley bolt is 19mm (more on this later).
- Get two of 10mm, 12mm, 14mm. One standard, one deep. You may want impact sockets for 12, 14, 19, 22.
- If you plan to disassemble the engine, you will need a special tool to get the head bolts out. It's basically a 10mm allen wrench welded into a socket. If you do, PLEASE follow the pattern in the TSRM, because this head wants to warp. I promise.
- Low profile jack. This car is a bitch to lift. I don't even use a jack anymore, I use some long ramps I made - basically regular metal ramps with 8' boards to go up gradually.
- Trim removal tools. The interior of your car is brittle after all these years. Be careful and don't yank. Get extra body clips, you'll be breaking them.
- One paperclip. To jump the diag block to flash out your engine codes. No ODB2 for you.
- EGR valve, including the coolant hose that feeds the BVSV. It's tight back there. Some folks have had to pull the head to finish the job.
- Head gasket. The 7M is horrible for this, mostly because it's a guaranteed point of failure. If you're moving to the 1UZ, I'll just leave this alone, but ask if you need more info.
- Suspension. It's coil over shock. Be very careful if you need to separate the springs from the shocks. Use the proper compressor tool, or just pay someone else to do it. It's not worth your anatomy.
- Exhaust. Cat-back is easy enough, but upstream of that everything is tight. Little clearance. You'll need to torch out the bolts, nothing is coming undone by hand after all these years. I paid someone for this job.
- Fuel pump. That little access panel in the hatch is not for the fuel pump, it's for the gauge sender. The fuel pump requires dropping the fuel tank.
- Oil. Seriously. The first time you flip the filter and dump oil all over yourself, you'll know what I mean.
- Brake hoses. Whatever you do, support the hard line when you remove the brake hose fitting. I'm not even sure that you can get new hard lines from Toyota.
Have you considered something "easier" like a 1JZ-GTE swap? I'm still rocking the 7M-GTE, and actually getting closer to stock as I and it get older, which is funny.
- Mar 3, 2008
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The 1UZ will be once I'm out of training and at a base (which will have fab tools). I've changed the oil and found that if you fit your arm a certain way, the filter isn't that bad. I think I was able to reach it from above the motor.
I've read all about the headgasket, didn't know about the special tool, I'll have to get one. Exhaust and suspension are in good shape and won't be modified for about another year or two. I'm trying to get my fuel sender to quit sending 3/4 instead of full, there's a part of the copper winding that catches the arm and prevents it from swinging to full.
The criteria for the engine is that it needs to be reliable, more fuel-efficient than the 7MGE (I'm getting about 13mpg tank average), have good modification potential, reasonably quick stock, and not too expensive to drop in. Lextreme has been splicing together 1UZ and 7M mounts and the exhaust uses 2UZ headers and custom piping. Basically what sold me was that for $250 I could have a motor with forged internals.
Also I'm young and stupid. This is a great idea.
I've read all about the headgasket, didn't know about the special tool, I'll have to get one. Exhaust and suspension are in good shape and won't be modified for about another year or two. I'm trying to get my fuel sender to quit sending 3/4 instead of full, there's a part of the copper winding that catches the arm and prevents it from swinging to full.
The criteria for the engine is that it needs to be reliable, more fuel-efficient than the 7MGE (I'm getting about 13mpg tank average), have good modification potential, reasonably quick stock, and not too expensive to drop in. Lextreme has been splicing together 1UZ and 7M mounts and the exhaust uses 2UZ headers and custom piping. Basically what sold me was that for $250 I could have a motor with forged internals.
Also I'm young and stupid. This is a great idea.
jlee
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2001
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- Mar 3, 2008
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So the sender has an arm which on one end has a doohickey which floats on gasoline. As the level rises and falls this doohickey causes the arm to swing and move a piece of copper on the other end across a pole which is wrapped in copper wire. My understanding is that this mechanism generates the perceived fuel level. Right around the 3/4 mark a bit of this wire is catching the arm and stopping it from swinging further. I think a little sand paper will smooth and fix this.
This is something like what my car's sender looks like, the pole with copper wire is on the other side of the calibration adjuster, which may also be something you can use. Also note in the image the cover with the tabs, that was covering the bits you'll need to get at.
Hope this helps!
Oh and I almost forgot, in some cases all you have to do is work with the copper piece on the end of the arm so that it makes proper contact to send a fuel level signal. That did help the sender's accuracy for me.
Ah, now it's making sense. You're in the military. My good friend is a Marine, and he bought an old Wrangler essentially because he wanted a "project" and could wrench on base. You guys do have access to some nice equipment, so you should have a lot of fun with the project. Let me know how it goes. My 91 is long in the tooth - 203k miles, but the body is clean. I'd love to take on a project like this, but now that I finally have the space to do it, I don't have access to fab anything, nor do I really have the time with our first child on the way. It's rare to have the time, space, money and tools, so go for it and don't look back.
Also, this car isn't your daily driver, right? Because things will go wrong. And you might want to push the whole thing into the nearest body of water
13 mpg for the 7M-GE is abysmal. I average 19 combined on the 7M-GTE. There is something wrong with it, and the only cure is a new engine. See what I did there?
FuzzyDunlop
Diamond Member
- Jan 30, 2008
- 3,260
- 12
- 81
jlee
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2001
- 48,518
- 223
- 106
So the sender has an arm which on one end has a doohickey which floats on gasoline. As the level rises and falls this doohickey causes the arm to swing and move a piece of copper on the other end across a pole which is wrapped in copper wire. My understanding is that this mechanism generates the perceived fuel level. Right around the 3/4 mark a bit of this wire is catching the arm and stopping it from swinging further. I think a little sand paper will smooth and fix this.
This is something like what my car's sender looks like, the pole with copper wire is on the other side of the calibration adjuster, which may also be something you can use. Also note in the image the cover with the tabs, that was covering the bits you'll need to get at.
Hope this helps!
Oh and I almost forgot, in some cases all you have to do is work with the copper piece on the end of the arm so that it makes proper contact to send a fuel level signal. That did help the sender's accuracy for me.
Sweet, thanks. I'll get to that the next time I drop the tank (PITA).
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
- 81
Edit 2: We've got FuzzyDunlop, jlee, and myself all wrenching/modifying Toyota's from around the same time period. WTF (this is cool). Race to 600hp?
Hope to be joining with my 95 Camry 3SGTE swap soon.
Though with 600 HP in that it will still only run 13s
jlee
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2001
- 48,518
- 223
- 106
Hope to be joining with my 95 Camry 3SGTE swap soon.
Though with 600 HP in that it will still only run 13s
13.742 @ 127mph :awe:
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