engagement rings - just a question

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Different people value different things in different ways - what is your home theater is someone elses diamond ring and vice versa. Try being a little more considerate of other's beliefs ideas and thoughts - see the other side of the coin, we are not always right on every situation, life is not a zero sum game, just because you think one way doesn't mean its the best way, etc.

I couldn't agree more.

However, how anyone can justify $15,000 on a band of metal with a stone with no practical use other than for show is beyond me.

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Different people value different things in different ways - what is your home theater is someone elses diamond ring and vice versa. Try being a little more considerate of other's beliefs ideas and thoughts - see the other side of the coin, we are not always right on every situation, life is not a zero sum game, just because you think one way doesn't mean its the best way, etc.

I couldn't agree more.

However, how anyone can justify $15,000 on a band of metal with a stone with no practical use other than for show is beyond me.

and there you go again. I bet the same people would say that about some things you cherish.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

No need to get fresh. I was just pointing out that those who live in a glass house should not throw stones; and your nasty attitude makes me feel that my assumptions about you are correct.

You are quick to jump on a soapbox about getting a cheaper ring and donating the money all while assuming that your $2600 on television & computer is justified because it is less money. So since you brought up the point, why did you spend $2600 on a computer and television when you could have bought a perfectly good television and computer for a fraction of the price and donate the remainder for those worthy causes that you previously mentioned?

I'm merely responding in kind as you referred to me as "immoral," "socially inept," and that society "shuns" me. If you'd prefer the discussion remain civil I'd ask that you refrain from insults and I'll do the same.

My computer I've had for a very long time. It started years ago as an Athlon XP system and I've just continually upgraded since then. As I said, I sell the older parts that I replace with new ones. I also get my hands on lots of used hardware from consulting jobs and at work so those are also sold to offset the costs. Luckily, the computer really doesn't cost very much to maintain.

As for the TV, we had planned on getting a 37" LCD TV in celebration of finishing our basement. We had been working hard on it for over 7 months and were happy we could finally move our son into his new bedroom downstairs so that we could stop sleeping in the living room and move into our bedroom, not to mention the extra living space. A 37" LCD was going to cost approx. $1,000 at the time but I had found a 47" for $1,600 and we decided to go with that. The $1,600 actually came from us downgrading our car. One of our vehicles was a 2001 Ford ZX2 but we wanted to replace it with a second 4 door car. My parents traded us their 1997 Taurus plus cash for our ZX2 since my dad had changed jobs and needed something with better gas mileage for the long commute.

I wont insult you, but you did not answer my question.

Why did we not purchase a smaller TV and donate the remaining money to charity? As I said, the TV was a reward for all the hard work we had put into the basement. Our old TV was a 27" hand me down from my wife's parents that makes a buzzing noise while on. Plus, since we had gotten extra money from downgrading our car, it was a nil expense.

Could we have gotten a 32" CRT and then donated the remaining $1,000? Sure. When I got a DVD last week I could have donated that $19 as well.

I suppose it all boils down to this: people who work hard deserve nice things. We all have our vices and waste money. The only reason I take such offense to expensive jewelry is because it's only purpose is to display financial dominance over others.

If this thread was about spending $15,000 on a home theater set up then at least the owner would get some tangible use out of that money. Jewelry, on the other hand, is merely for vanity.

Different people value different things in different ways - what is your home theater is someone elses diamond ring and vice versa. Try being a little more considerate of other's beliefs ideas and thoughts - see the other side of the coin, we are not always right on every situation, life is not a zero sum game, just because you think one way doesn't mean its the best way, etc.

Rocks have not value. Go with sapphires because you have to have something for traditions sake, they look nicer, are more reasonable priced for a rock and are more traditional.

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Different people value different things in different ways - what is your home theater is someone elses diamond ring and vice versa. Try being a little more considerate of other's beliefs ideas and thoughts - see the other side of the coin, we are not always right on every situation, life is not a zero sum game, just because you think one way doesn't mean its the best way, etc.

I couldn't agree more.

However, how anyone can justify $15,000 on a band of metal with a stone with no practical use other than for show is beyond me.

and there you go again. I bet the same people would say that about some things you cherish.

Let's start this over.

If jewelry is used as a memento or as remembrance of love, affection, or someone special, why is it worn externally? Does the cost of jewelry directly coincide with it's ability to commemorate someone or something? Does a $2,000 ring mean less than a $15,000 ring? If rings hold sentimental value or serve as mementos, why do people want others to see their jewelry?

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Different people value different things in different ways - what is your home theater is someone elses diamond ring and vice versa. Try being a little more considerate of other's beliefs ideas and thoughts - see the other side of the coin, we are not always right on every situation, life is not a zero sum game, just because you think one way doesn't mean its the best way, etc.

I couldn't agree more.

However, how anyone can justify $15,000 on a band of metal with a stone with no practical use other than for show is beyond me.

and there you go again. I bet the same people would say that about some things you cherish.

Let's start this over.

If jewelry is used as a memento or as remembrance of love, affection, or someone special, why is it worn externally? Does the cost of jewelry directly coincide with it's ability to commemorate someone or something? Does a $2,000 ring mean less than a $15,000 ring? If rings hold sentimental value or serve as mementos, why do people want others to see their jewelry?

Because they want to? Who are you to say what is to be done to show affection, etc? To quote my favorite literary character, "who made you Judge Judy and executioner?"

 

[crt1530]

Homer Simpson isn't a literary character and engagement rings are all about vanity and consumerism.

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: crt1530
Homer Simpson isn't a literary character and engagement rings are all about vanity and consumerism.

:roll:

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Because they want to? Who are you to say what is to be done to show affection, etc? To quote my favorite literary character, "who made you Judge Judy and executioner?"

Quirky quotes aside, we're not debating the right of people to buy what they want. I support someone spending their money in any way they see fit and I would never take steps to change that.

I'm arguing the moral side of spending $15,000 on a ring. As I said:

If jewelry is used as a memento or as remembrance of love, affection, or someone special, why is it worn externally? Does the cost of jewelry directly coincide with it's ability to commemorate someone or something? Does a $2,000 ring mean less than a $15,000 ring? If rings hold sentimental value or serve as mementos, why do people want others to see their jewelry?

You advocated anonymous charity, why does anonymity not apply to tokens of remembrance or affection? Why must they, on the topic of jewelry, be gaudy, expensive, and proudly displayed?

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Because they want to? Who are you to say what is to be done to show affection, etc? To quote my favorite literary character, "who made you Judge Judy and executioner?"

Quirky quotes aside, we're not debating the right of people to buy what they want. I support someone spending their money in any way they see fit and I would never take steps to change that.

I'm arguing the moral side of spending $15,000 on a ring. As I said:

If jewelry is used as a memento or as remembrance of love, affection, or someone special, why is it worn externally? Does the cost of jewelry directly coincide with it's ability to commemorate someone or something? Does a $2,000 ring mean less than a $15,000 ring? If rings hold sentimental value or serve as mementos, why do people want others to see their jewelry?

You advocated anonymous charity, why does anonymity not apply to tokens of remembrance or affection? Why must they, on the topic of jewelry, be gaudy, expensive, and proudly displayed?

That makes no sense... you are comparing apples to oranges.

I do not advocate (nor do I criticize) it.

I'm just saying that you have to have an open mind and that you're ideas. While they may seem to be, they are not the be all end all. This is ever so more visible when you have said some things that were hypocritical in this thread (e.g. you say that someone should buy a lesser ring [with the same general effect but fewer bells and whistles] and donate to charity - but you could have bought a lesser TV and gotten a lesser computer [with the same general effect but fewer bells and whistles] and donated the rest to charity - but you didn't - so why should you tell someone do something similar?) So don't cast stones. Different strokes for different folks. A couple, a man, or a woman, or whoever may value a nicer ring the way you value a nicer TV set and computer. Nothing is tried and true, no one persons ideals are "correct" vs. anothers.

I feel like I'm going around in circles.

 

[crt1530]

Just to be clear, I am not agreeing with child of wonder. I certainly do not judge the morality of those who choose to spend their money on luxuries. All luxuries are relative. In many countries, indoor plumbing is considered a luxury.

Diamond engagement rings serve to convey status. That is vanity at its core. How is there any sentimental difference between a plain metal band and one that has a multi-carat diamond attached if it is simply a symbol of one's love? There isn't...unless your sentiment is dependant on the monetary value and aesthetics of the ring. That's called vanity.

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: crt1530
Just to be clear, I am not agreeing with child of wonder. I certainly do not judge the morality of those who choose to spend their money on luxuries. All luxuries are relative. In many countries, indoor plumbing is considered a luxury.

Diamond engagement rings serve to convey status. That is vanity at its core. How is there any sentimental difference between a plain metal band and one that has a multi-carat diamond attached if it is simply a symbol of one's love? There isn't...unless your sentiment is dependant on the monetary value and aesthetics of the ring. That's called vanity.

and some people have a very high regard for vanity -

so they are vain (sp?)

it's their perogative.

since when are you (figuratively) the perogative police?
^^ which is the point i have been trying to get across this whole time.

 

[crt1530]

van·i·ty [van-i-tee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -ties, adjective
?noun 1. excessive pride in one's appearance, qualities, abilities, achievements, etc.; character or quality of being vain; conceit: Failure to be elected was a great blow to his vanity.
2. an instance or display of this quality or feeling.
3. something about which one is vain.
4. lack of real value; hollowness; worthlessness: the vanity of a selfish life.
5. something worthless, trivial, or pointless.
6. vanity case.
7. dressing table.
8. a wide, counterlike shelf containing a wash basin, as in the bathroom of a hotel or residence, often equipped with shelves, drawers, etc., underneath.
9. a cabinet built below or around a bathroom sink, primarily to hide exposed pipes.
10. compact1 (def. 13).

?adjective 11. produced as a showcase for one's own talents, esp. as a writer, actor, singer, or composer: a vanity production.
12. of, pertaining to, or issued by a vanity press: a spate of vanity books.

[Origin: 1200?50; ME vanite < OF < L vanitas, equiv. to van- (see vain) + -itas- -ity]

?Related forms
van·i·tied, adjective

?Synonyms 1. egotism, complacency, vainglory, ostentation. See pride. 4. emptiness, sham, unreality, folly, triviality, futility.
?Antonyms 1. humility.

I find people who regard vanity as a virtue to be generally worthless human beings. Everyone experiences pride on occasion, but those who embrace it rarely have anything to offer the world other than asinine reality TV programming.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: crt1530
Just to be clear, I am not agreeing with child of wonder. I certainly do not judge the morality of those who choose to spend their money on luxuries. All luxuries are relative. In many countries, indoor plumbing is considered a luxury.

Diamond engagement rings serve to convey status. That is vanity at its core. How is there any sentimental difference between a plain metal band and one that has a multi-carat diamond attached if it is simply a symbol of one's love? There isn't...unless your sentiment is dependant on the monetary value and aesthetics of the ring. That's called vanity.

People can't have different styles without suddenly becoming vain and diminishing the sentiment? Your misconception, and I believe that of every other anti-diamond person in this thread, is that people who buy diamonds more interesting than a single band do so to impress others. Some people simply have different styles and couldn't care less what others think.

I like white gold/platinum over gold even though gold would generally be cheaper, but is that minor expression of preference somehow vain?

I just think all these arguments are silly. People try to find arguments to express why their preference is right (some even bringing morality into the issue) versus that of others.

 

[crt1530]

I've been among groups of highly affluent people for whom a $100,000+ ring would be an insignificant expenditure. From my personal experience, the value of the person's jewelry is nearly always inversely related to how well they treat others.

It's not about how much money you spend on something, it's about how much value you place on physical objects whose sole purpose is to convey status.

 

[thomsbrain]

Setting/shipping should be free for a new band and rock from the same retailer. Put your money into getting a quality stone rather than a big one. It will sparkle more and you can feel good knowing you got her quality.

I bought from bluenile.com and was pleased with the purchase and customer service.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: crt1530
Just to be clear, I am not agreeing with child of wonder. I certainly do not judge the morality of those who choose to spend their money on luxuries. All luxuries are relative. In many countries, indoor plumbing is considered a luxury.

Diamond engagement rings serve to convey status. That is vanity at its core. How is there any sentimental difference between a plain metal band and one that has a multi-carat diamond attached if it is simply a symbol of one's love? There isn't...unless your sentiment is dependant on the monetary value and aesthetics of the ring. That's called vanity.

and some people have a very high regard for vanity -

so they are vain (sp?)

it's their perogative.

since when are you (figuratively) the perogative police?
^^ which is the point i have been trying to get across this whole time.

So your point is to defend vainy?

I agree with crt1530. Vanity is a very poor character trait and those who are vain probably don't know it because they're vain.

 

[alkemyst]

Jewelry is not just vanity. It's material wealth and value backed by itself. Should the US dollar go to $0, your jewelry/etc would be the only thing of value.

Most that are arguing probably either have never been in the market for such jewelry, cannot afford it, or do not believe in it. Those that go out and entertain a lot find it becomes more like the tuxedo they are expected to wear.

 

[imported_xaguynamedguyx]

okay if you are honestly asking people you don't know their opinion about what ring you should by for your future wife you need help. if anything ask a jeweler. or people you know.

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: xaguynamedguyx
okay if you are honestly asking people you don't know their opinion about what ring you should by for your future wife you need help. if anything ask a jeweler. or people you know.

and the award for most insightful post goes to...................














not this guy

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: xaguynamedguyx
okay if you are honestly asking people you don't know their opinion about what ring you should by for your future wife you need help. if anything ask a jeweler. or people you know.

Yeah let's just do away with forums altogether.

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: crt1530
Just to be clear, I am not agreeing with child of wonder. I certainly do not judge the morality of those who choose to spend their money on luxuries. All luxuries are relative. In many countries, indoor plumbing is considered a luxury.

Diamond engagement rings serve to convey status. That is vanity at its core. How is there any sentimental difference between a plain metal band and one that has a multi-carat diamond attached if it is simply a symbol of one's love? There isn't...unless your sentiment is dependant on the monetary value and aesthetics of the ring. That's called vanity.

and some people have a very high regard for vanity -

so they are vain (sp?)

it's their perogative.

since when are you (figuratively) the perogative police?
^^ which is the point i have been trying to get across this whole time.

So your point is to defend vainy?

I agree with crt1530. Vanity is a very poor character trait and those who are vain probably don't know it because they're vain.

The point was I defend the right for people to prioritize how they want to, not the way that you, WonderChild or anyone else says it should be.

 

[alkemyst]

Vanity is in many higher animals behavior, there is nothing wrong with it. It's when it's excessive that it's considered bad/garish.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: crt1530
Just to be clear, I am not agreeing with child of wonder. I certainly do not judge the morality of those who choose to spend their money on luxuries. All luxuries are relative. In many countries, indoor plumbing is considered a luxury.

Diamond engagement rings serve to convey status. That is vanity at its core. How is there any sentimental difference between a plain metal band and one that has a multi-carat diamond attached if it is simply a symbol of one's love? There isn't...unless your sentiment is dependant on the monetary value and aesthetics of the ring. That's called vanity.

and some people have a very high regard for vanity -

so they are vain (sp?)

it's their perogative.

since when are you (figuratively) the perogative police?
^^ which is the point i have been trying to get across this whole time.

So your point is to defend vainy?

I agree with crt1530. Vanity is a very poor character trait and those who are vain probably don't know it because they're vain.

The point was I defend the right for people to prioritize how they want to, not the way that you, WonderChild or anyone else says it should be.

We're all entitled to our opinions. I'll stick with my right to think very little of shallow vain people.

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: crt1530
Just to be clear, I am not agreeing with child of wonder. I certainly do not judge the morality of those who choose to spend their money on luxuries. All luxuries are relative. In many countries, indoor plumbing is considered a luxury.

Diamond engagement rings serve to convey status. That is vanity at its core. How is there any sentimental difference between a plain metal band and one that has a multi-carat diamond attached if it is simply a symbol of one's love? There isn't...unless your sentiment is dependant on the monetary value and aesthetics of the ring. That's called vanity.

and some people have a very high regard for vanity -

so they are vain (sp?)

it's their perogative.

since when are you (figuratively) the perogative police?
^^ which is the point i have been trying to get across this whole time.

So your point is to defend vainy?

I agree with crt1530. Vanity is a very poor character trait and those who are vain probably don't know it because they're vain.

The point was I defend the right for people to prioritize how they want to, not the way that you, WonderChild or anyone else says it should be.

We're all entitled to our opinions. I'll stick with my right to think very little of shallow vain people.

bingo! I, as one, don't care much for your opinion (JK)

 

[alkemyst]

Something tells me the people that are looking down on one that spends a lot of money on things they could not afford are more jealous than really anything else. Also they tend to assume their opinion matters much more than it does.