Engadget editor and diehard BB fan gives up her BB

[DivideBYZero]

Again - this isn't hard. A "staggering drop" in marketshare in an expanding market is not as dire as you'd like to make it sound. They sold 40% more phones this year than they did last year. That is a staggering increase

For some reason, it hurts your soul that RIM is still allowed to be a company. I regret to inform you that they're still doing quite well, whether you like it or not.

Let's see what he thinks of the iPad's staggering drop in market share in 2011. I'm sure there will be a Steve friendly reason for it. 😀

 

[Deeko]

Let's see what he thinks of the iPad's staggering drop in market share in 2011. I'm sure there will be a Steve friendly reason for it. 😀

but but but they greatly increased sales, why should Apple be worried about marketshare? They're still making money! It doesn't matter if the marketshare dropped, its a new market that Apple helped create and now other competitors are joining!

Hmmm...sounds familiar.....

 

[Pliablemoose]

LOL, I don't give a damn about sales in developing markets, and that's where RIM's growth is right now.

They're vulnerable as hell in those markets to cheap, entry level Android OS'd phones.

I've had 3 tablets so far how many do you-all use every day? Go pick up a plate by the edges, then pick up one by grasping an inch on the front as well, and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

Time will tell.... I'm not saying that the iPad is the be all and end all of tablet computing, I rather like my modded color nook.

I haven't seen a compelling product from RIM in some time, what compelling product for the North American market can I go buy today?

In what universe is losing 50% of the marketshare of the largest market a good thing?

 

[Deeko]

LOL, I don't give a damn about sales in developing markets, and that's where RIM's growth is right now.

Of course you don't. I mean, unless it were the other way around, and RIM was losing ground there. Then you'd say something like "this market has so much room for growth, RIM is proving how incompetent they are by not catering to the needs of these quickly expanding markets!! RIM is doomed I tell you! DOOOOMED!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_49iNqxOnH4&feature=related

 

[MrX8503]

In what universe is losing 50% of the marketshare of the largest market a good thing?

If the market is expanding, they can still be as profitable back when the market was smaller. Maybe not as profitable as those with larger marketshare, but still more profitable than they were in the past.

 

[Deeko]

In what universe is losing 50% of the marketshare of the largest market a good thing?

In a universe where you are still selling 40% more than you did the previous year

Seriously - this isn't that hard. Of course you want to beat your competitors. Of course you want to be #1. But if you're still doing very well, and continuing to improve your sales at a very good rate, that's still a good thing, no matter how you spin it.

If you got a 40% raise this year, and your neighbor - who used to make 1/10 as much as you - got a 900% raise, does that do anything to take away from your raise? No. Sure - maybe you could have gotten some of this raise too, but it doesn't change the fact that you're still doing very well.

Team Apple (it could have even been you, I don't remember) said the same thing when Android passed Apple in marketshare. "Who cares, Apple is still selling more than they used to, and they're making a lot of money." Its the same situation....you just hate RIM for some inexplicable reason.

 

[LikeLinus]

The real issue here is their lack of a view to the future (as well as yours). A 40% increase is wonderful. The problem is Apple's share of the smartphone market surpassed Research In Motion in 3Q 2010. Android is now the 2nd best selling mobile OS in the world.

RIM sold 11.9 million devices to end users in the third quarter of 2010, and its global share of the smartphone market fell to 14.8 percent. RIM's share of the overall North American market declined to 11.2 percent in the third quarter of 2010, from 12.7 percent in the third quarter of 2009. RIM lost its leading smartphone market position to Apple.

RIM is on a downward spiral they currently have no answer for. They are not forward looking and producing products that people want long term. Obviously RIM isn't going anywhere right now, but it's a trend and the market is showing they want the alternative devices out there and it's seriously eating into RIMs market share.

Everyone knows that RIM is the defacto corporate phone. But now you are seeing Corporations open up their infrastructure to other mobile devices (i.e. Android and iOS). Once RIM loses their death grip on the corporate market share...it's game over. This may take years, but you’d be naive to think RIM is OK just because they sold more than last year and they can keep going on the path they are now. Long term planning and execution is important in a business. They need to continue to be an innovator, not just sitting idle and stagnant in this type of market. It moves so fast and there are many competitors gunning for their market share.

 

[Deeko]

Again - a downward spiral does not typically include selling 40% more than you did the last year. Also, again, it is simply untrue to state they aren't looking toward the future. While the Torch had a lot of room for improvement, its a step in the right direction. The various acquisitions they made this year are also forward looking steps in the right direction. The Playbook still has a way to go to prove itself in the market, but its also a very promising forward-looking device.

RIM is still doing well, and like it or not, they are looking toward the future as well. RIM acquired a webkit browser company - and OS6 now has a DRASTICALLY improved browser. They acquired QNX, and now have a solid platform for their tablet that they'll likely incorporate into their phones as well. The acquired a UI company....do you think they won't use that to improve their UI?

They've made smart moves that have already started paying off....on top of the fact that they're still selling 40% more than they did this time last year. That is not a recipe for doom.

 

[DivideBYZero]

I wonder what numbers people are using. This report is interesting:

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20101203-708472.html

For the three-month period ended in October, Blackberry-maker RIM again had the biggest market share at 35.8%, according to comScore Inc. (SCOR). But that was down 3.5 percentage points from the prior three-month period. Meanwhile, Apple Inc.'s (AAPL) iPhone operating system remained at No. 2, gaining 0.8 point to a market share of 24.6% while Android surged 6.5 points to 23.5%.

 

[DivideBYZero]

The real issue here is their lack of a view to the future (as well as yours). A 40% increase is wonderful. The problem is Apple's share of the smartphone market surpassed Research In Motion in 3Q 2010. Android is now the 2nd best selling mobile OS in the world.

RIM sold 11.9 million devices to end users in the third quarter of 2010, and its global share of the smartphone market fell to 14.8 percent. RIM's share of the overall North American market declined to 11.2 percent in the third quarter of 2010, from 12.7 percent in the third quarter of 2009. RIM lost its leading smartphone market position to Apple.

RIM is on a downward spiral they currently have no answer for. They are not forward looking and producing products that people want long term. Obviously RIM isn't going anywhere right now, but it's a trend and the market is showing they want the alternative devices out there and it's seriously eating into RIMs market share.

Everyone knows that RIM is the defacto corporate phone. But now you are seeing Corporations open up their infrastructure to other mobile devices (i.e. Android and iOS). Once RIM loses their death grip on the corporate market share...it's game over. This may take years, but you’d be naive to think RIM is OK just because they sold more than last year and they can keep going on the path they are now. Long term planning and execution is important in a business. They need to continue to be an innovator, not just sitting idle and stagnant in this type of market. It moves so fast and there are many competitors gunning for their market share.

*sigh*

No answer? No long term planning? I know how much planning goes on inside RIM, and it's much more than you put into that post.

Please read my earlier post again.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30933906&postcount=10

 

[Pliablemoose]

LOL, I used the expanding market to explain how a smaller drop in marketshare wasn't a bad thing, not flipping 50% of the marketshare they once had.

Similarly, I don't think that a smartphone that sells well in Zimbabwe is that smartphone that I want to purchase.

I guess folk get confused because I post from 2 different viewpoints, as a speculator in telecom related stock, and as an enthusiast.

As an enthusiast, I find no compelling reason to own a BB product, as an investor, I think RIM is interesting and has the whole: "profit from selling smartphones in a market where 2G still matters" pretty well nailed.

I have problems with the Playbook on both fronts... And I don't trust RIM to have the vision to knock one out of the park...

 

[Pliablemoose]

I wonder what numbers people are using. This report is interesting:

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20101203-708472.html

And the lead in is:

Research In Motion Ltd.'s (RIMM, RIM.T) mobile-phone operating system recently continued to lose market share in the U.S

 

[Deeko]

We aren't confused. You remind us very frequently that you invest in this sector.

 

[Pliablemoose]

We aren't confused. You remind us very frequently that you invest in this sector.

And, evidently it irritates you?

You feel it's necessary to pass a value judgment on investing every time I mention it?

I went to college, make over six figures, am on call 24/7 save lives, and work 60 hour weeks and I'm supposed to feel guilty?

Send me a PM and we can sure discuss it 😀

 

[DivideBYZero]

LOL, I used the expanding market to explain how a smaller drop in marketshare wasn't a bad thing, not flipping 50% of the marketshare they once had.

Similarly, I don't think that a smartphone that sells well in Zimbabwe is that smartphone that I want to purchase.

I guess folk get confused because I post from 2 different viewpoints, as a speculator in telecom related stock, and as an enthusiast.

As an enthusiast, I find no compelling reason to own a BB product, as an investor, I think RIM is interesting and has the whole: "profit from selling smartphones in a market where 2G still matters" pretty well nailed.

I have problems with the Playbook on both fronts... And I don't trust RIM to have the vision to knock one out of the park...

Was Mike L actually talking about Zimbabwe? What are the sales numbers for Zimbabwe? Don't answer that, I know you're just trolling.

On a side note, I met Mike L a few years ago at the Egham, UK RIM office.

 

[DivideBYZero]

And, evidently it irritates you?

You feel it's necessary to pass a value judgment on investing every time I mention it?

I went to college, make over six figures, am on call 24/7 save lives, and work 60 hour weeks and I'm supposed to feel guilty?

Send me a PM and we can sure discuss it 😀

OK, WTF has your salary and job got to do with RIM. Stop derailing every RIM thread, FFS.

 

[Deeko]

And, evidently it irritates you?

You feel it's necessary to pass a value judgment on investing every time I mention it?

I went to college, make over six figures, am on call 24/7 save lives, and work 60 hour weeks and I'm supposed to feel guilty?

Send me a PM and we can sure discuss it 😀

No - the point is that it has nothing to do with anything in these threads. You feel it necessary to remind us over and over that you invest in this stuff, just like you feel it necessary to tell us you make six figures and save lives...apparently, I assume, in your mind this somehow validates your posts. Unfortunately, it doesn't - it makes you look pompous and narcissistic.

I went to college, I work hard, and I do well for myself, too. I don't feel the need to vomit that information all over a technical subforum repeatedly because its entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Um, I'm not the one turning this thread into personal attacks...

IIRC, the thread is about how an Engadget editor gave up on RIM producing a compelling handset for the North American market for perhaps years to come.

Deeko, just click on the "ignore user" button, I really won't mind a bit. 🙂

And as far as talking about finances, if people had talked realistically about finances and there wasn't such a stigma in our culture about really talking about saving and investing, and not just showing off, our economy wouldn't be so hosed.

It might surprise you to learn that a lot of posters in this forum are telecom investors...

 

[Pliablemoose]

double post, sorry.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Um, I'm not the one turning this thread into personal attacks...

IIRC, the thread is about how an Engadget editor gave up on RIM producing a compelling handset for the North American market for perhaps years to come.

Derail, derail, derail. Stop it.

 

[Deeko]

Um, I'm not the one turning this thread into personal attacks...

IIRC, the thread is about how an Engadget editor gave up on RIM producing a compelling handset for the North American market for perhaps years to come.

A) You did your best to turn this thread into a discussion about you. You got what you wanted, congrats. If you don't want that, stop talking about yourself.

B) One person that owned Blackberry phones for a long time buying one phone that was not a Blackberry does not spell doom for a company. Do you not realize how frequently people get new phones? Hell, she even signed off by saying that she hopes when her contract is up, she can go back to Blackberry. She also said she doesn't see a phone she wants coming from Blackbrry in the coming months in that paragraph, not years.

 

[Deeko]

It might surprise you to learn that a lot of posters in this forum are telecom investors...

No, it wouldn't. I own stock in several of the companies involved in GG&P. RIM not being one of them. I'm just not so self-aggrandizing to feel my ownership of said stocks has anything to do with these discussions.

edit: I'm done aiding you in derailing this thread. If you feel it prudent to comment on item B in my above post, we can continue this discussion.

 

[Pliablemoose]

A) You did your best to turn this thread into a discussion about you. You got what you wanted, congrats. If you don't want that, stop talking about yourself.

B) One person that owned Blackberry phones for a long time buying one phone that was not a Blackberry does not spell doom for a company. Do you not realize how frequently people get new phones? Hell, she even signed off by saying that she hopes when her contract is up, she can go back to Blackberry. She also said she doesn't see a phone she wants coming from Blackbrry in the coming months in that paragraph, not years.

If tank girl really felt that way, do you think she would have signed a 2 year contract and written the article?

 

[Deeko]

So she writes an article about how she loves Blackberry but bought something else because she didn't like the current options, and signed it off by saying she hopes to buy another Blackberry when her contract is up, and you think she's lying?

 

[Pliablemoose]

So she writes an article about how she loves Blackberry but bought something else because she didn't like the current options, and signed it off by saying she hopes to buy another Blackberry when her contract is up, and you think she's lying?

LULZ, the sky really is blue Deeko...

And Joanna really did sign a 2 year contract for an Android device.