Engadget article on nVidia

Wreckage

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If Fermi turns out to be a monster and now with Larabee dead on arrival. NVIDIA may have no competition next year and beyond.
 

Qbah

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Oct 18, 2005
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It better be at least competitive or PC folks can kiss cheap and powerful GPUs goodbye.
 

yacoub

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May 24, 2005
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Given the 5800 series is a great leap over the 4800 series, we can only hope that NVidia knocks it out of the park with Fermi-based DX11 enthusiast cards, so the prices are driven through the floor on the 5800 series back to where they belong, along with the 5700 series which are also overpriced.
 

Wreckage

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Given the 5800 series is a great leap over the 4800 series, we can only hope that NVidia knocks it out of the park with Fermi-based DX11 enthusiast cards, so the prices are driven through the floor on the 5800 series back to where they belong, along with the 5700 series which are also overpriced.

I agree. I had to skip the 8xxx series because it was too expensive. Even the 2xx series was pricey until the HD4xxx series launched.

Now it's the reverse, people might skip the HD5xxx series and either get a DX10 card or wait for competition to bring things back to earth.

Although with the crappy state of console ports, a DX10 card can be overkill in many cases. :\
 

YBS1

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May 14, 2000
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I agree. I had to skip the 8xxx series because it was too expensive. Even the 2xx series was pricey until the HD4xxx series launched.

Now it's the reverse, people might skip the HD5xxx series and either get a DX10 card or wait for competition to bring things back to earth.
:\

That's what I just ended up doing. I missed my shot at getting a 5970 on launch day, they had five models in stock at the time and I went and fixed a sandwich not figuring five different models of $600 videocards would sell out that quickly, when I came back....all out of stock. Not being able to grab one of those I just ended up ordering another 4890 for $155 after rebate and bing, plus two free games. Can't beat that. I'll just wait for the refresh parts or the next gen, not like anything can really tax crossfired 4890's at 1920x1200 anyway except maybe crysis at insane settings.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
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If Fermi turns out to be a monster and now with Larabee dead on arrival. NVIDIA may have no competition next year and beyond.

Were did you get Larrabee was dead on arrival . I only got that you can't buy a standalone card. Which makes perfect sense . Seeings how nehalem and Larrabee work as a single unit . So KIT would be proper usage. Monday should be interesting.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
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I agree. I had to skip the 8xxx series because it was too expensive. Even the 2xx series was pricey until the HD4xxx series launched.

Now it's the reverse, people might skip the HD5xxx series and either get a DX10 card or wait for competition to bring things back to earth.

Although with the crappy state of console ports, a DX10 card can be overkill in many cases. :\

So NV is worth big dollars and ATI should sell only cheap cards . LOL get a life .
 

akugami

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Feb 14, 2005
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Nemesis 1 is correct, Larrabee seems to be stillborn and not dead on arrival.

The work that went into Larrabee will be used in a future product but I think that it is so late that Intel figured it would be better just to scrap it and continue adding some features in that was suppose to have been for Larrabee's successor and use the current Larrabee as a KIT so that people can practice on it.

Intel is a juggernaut and one can't discount what it does but at the same time Intel is not infallible. Itanium is a prime example.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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Has Itanium been a major player? Larrabee sounds like Itanium for graphics. Still born first product that is being used for development machines. Maybe 2nd product will be ok in performance. But it will have an awful reputation it will have a hard time in the HPC market.

In the meantime Nvidia cements their marketshare due to lack of competition.

Anand didnt talk about the NES contract for their next gen handheld which could be rather large.
 
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Idontcare

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Oct 10, 1999
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Last time Intel canned a project like this they sold it off as soon as they could find a buyer.

Remember when Intel was going to decimate the mobile microprocessor markets? Then when the customers didn't self-assemble and queue up to buy the chips Intel sold the business to Marvell.

Will Larrabee remain in-house? It is getting harder and harder to not look back and conclude that Gelsinger's departure was not related to the impending public disclosure of where Larrabee is headed.
 

Tsavo

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Sep 29, 2009
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I agree. I had to skip the 8xxx series because it was too expensive. Even the 2xx series was pricey until the HD4xxx series launched.

Now it's the reverse, people might skip the HD5xxx series and either get a DX10 card or wait for competition to bring things back to earth.

Although with the crappy state of console ports, a DX10 card can be overkill in many cases. :\

This is what I am doing...skipping the DX11 parts and getting a 4890.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
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Last time Intel canned a project like this they sold it off as soon as they could find a buyer.

Remember when Intel was going to decimate the mobile microprocessor markets? Then when the customers didn't self-assemble and queue up to buy the chips Intel sold the business to Marvell.

Will Larrabee remain in-house? It is getting harder and harder to not look back and conclude that Gelsinger's departure was not related to the impending public disclosure of where Larrabee is headed.

How about this conspiracy? Intel knows they cant get around Nvidia patents and instead of come to the table they can the entire project?
 

Idontcare

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Oct 10, 1999
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How about this conspiracy? Intel knows they cant get around Nvidia patents and instead of come to the table they can the entire project?

Good point, I had forgot about that large nugget of info the Benskywalker had heaved into the forums regarding the patent cross-licensing issues Intel created for themselves by trying to screw Nvidia out of the chipset market.

Their lead legal guy recently quit and went to Apple, IIRC, I wonder how much shit hit the fan when the left hand finally realized what the right hand had done there with that lawsuit debacle.

Larrabee Guy: Uh, Mr chipset business manager did you really convince Tim, the head of Intel legal, to sue Nvidia over some small-fry dying chipset business concerns?

Intel Chipset Guy: Uhm...maybe? It seemed like we had plausible grounds to win a few million from Nvidia over this. Why do you ask?

Larrabee Guy: You do realize we've got $3B invested in larrabee and all of it is riding on having access to a handful of NV patents? And that this lawsuit game of yours kinda puts a crimp in the "bigger picture" we got going on over here?

Intel Chipset Guy: Crap. Look I was just looking to score a little bump in my year-end bonus, I'm a chipset guy for christ sake, how much longer you think I have a job with everything going on-die these days? So you think we really screwed the pooch this time?

Larrabee Guy: God I hope Charlie doesn't get leaked any details on this...what a debacle.
 

jvroig

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Nov 4, 2009
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I'm lost. Reading the Engadget article didn't help with this Larrabee issue at all (obviously, it was about nVidia).

Is Larrabee finally officially dead? Before it even gets released? And it is mainly due to legal concerns?
 

Wreckage

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Is Larrabee finally officially dead? Before it even gets released? And it is mainly due to legal concerns?

Sounds like it just fell too far behind schedule and it will only be released as a development kit. I suppose a LarryBgood 2 could be in the works though.
 

Wreckage

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Read Ryan's article: http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=659

(not sure why he used two penryn die maps as the image for Larrabee Prime though)

I love how Intel can fail on such a major product and it's just a "project" for them now.

If it had been AMD or NVIDIA it would have hurt badly.

Granted Microsoft does this all the time, there are certain benefits to playing monopoly well. (Like a get out of jail free card).
 

akugami

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Feb 14, 2005
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Has Itanium been a major player? Larrabee sounds like Itanium for graphics. Still born first product that is being used for development machines. Maybe 2nd product will be ok in performance. But it will have an awful reputation it will have a hard time in the HPC market.

In the meantime Nvidia cements their marketshare due to lack of competition.

Anand didnt talk about the NES contract for their next gen handheld which could be rather large.

I said Intel is not infallible. The definition for infallible is incapable of error. Meaning Intel isn't immune to making errors or mistakes. Hence Itanium.

And if I recall correctly Larrabee is not Intel's first attempt at discrete graphics.

The NES hand held thing is a rumor and nothing more. Quite a plausible rumor since the Gameboy DS runs on two ARM chips though I'm not sure about the graphics chips in the DS's. Tegra ( more likely Tegra 2) would be a likely candidate to replace the rapidly aging DS. Imagination's PowerVR coupled with ARM (iPhones, Palm Pre), is probably the biggest competitor for Tegra at the moment.

As much as I don't want to go around turning this into a thread about Intel, what Intel does in the GPU front is going to have a huge impact on nVidia.

nVidia has got to be weary of Intel encroaching onto the GPGPU and discrete GPU business. Anyone has to be weary when companies the size of Intel or Microsoft encroach on their territories. nVidia has got to be worried, not weary, about Intel stealing most of their lunch. nVidia gets a huge revenue stream from GPU sales such as those integrated into notebooks and computers that are slightly above what Intel currently provides. What happens when Intel becomes "good enough" for Joe Computer on the GPU front? What happens when Intel puts out multi-core CPU+GPU's (same die)?

I think Tegra is a bright spot for nVidia but I also think it is a lifeline for nVidia for a worst case scenario where all of their GPU sales have dried up, both on the AMD and Intel front, except for mid to high end video cards.
 

shangshang

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May 17, 2008
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Good point, I had forgot about that large nugget of info the Benskywalker had heaved into the forums regarding the patent cross-licensing issues Intel created for themselves by trying to screw Nvidia out of the chipset market.

Their lead legal guy recently quit and went to Apple, IIRC, I wonder how much shit hit the fan when the left hand finally realized what the right hand had done there with that lawsuit debacle.

Larrabee Guy: Uh, Mr chipset business manager did you really convince Tim, the head of Intel legal, to sue Nvidia over some small-fry dying chipset business concerns?

Intel Chipset Guy: Uhm...maybe? It seemed like we had plausible grounds to win a few million from Nvidia over this. Why do you ask?

Larrabee Guy: You do realize we've got $3B invested in larrabee and all of it is riding on having access to a handful of NV patents? And that this lawsuit game of yours kinda puts a crimp in the "bigger picture" we got going on over here?

Intel Chipset Guy: Crap. Look I was just looking to score a little bump in my year-end bonus, I'm a chipset guy for christ sake, how much longer you think I have a job with everything going on-die these days? So you think we really screwed the pooch this time?

Larrabee Guy: God I hope Charlie doesn't get leaked any details on this...what a debacle.


LOL! pretty I was thinking.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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So reading the article it looks like Nvidia are moving away from gamers and into other areas.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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I love how Intel can fail on such a major product and it's just a "project" for them now.

If it had been AMD or NVIDIA it would have hurt badly.

Granted Microsoft does this all the time, there are certain benefits to playing monopoly well. (Like a get out of jail free card).

Intel is like the USA in 1960's...so f'ing wealthy compared to the rest of the world (combined) that we could put men on the moon and consider it an exercise in patriotism and national pride. What did we do with our "project"? Velcro and Tang was it?

What will Intel do with Larrabee? Who knows, if they do nothing with it for 50yrs its not like they broke their checking account playing around with Larrabee in the meantime.
 

Wreckage

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So reading the article it looks like Nvidia are moving away from gamers and into other areas.

Nope, just wishful thinking on your part.

Fermi will most likely be the most powerful gaming card and support both DX11 and PhysX.

They are just expanding their markets.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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Nope, just wishful thinking on your part.

Fermi will most likely be the most powerful gaming card and support both DX11 and PhysX.

They are just expanding their markets.

Hey I don't want that to happen, I think it would be horrible. :(

I'm just commenting on the article that this thread is about, which says thing like.

Let's see, no competitive GPUs, no future chipset business. This isn't looking good so far -- but the one thing I've learned from writing about these companies for the past 12 years is that the future's never as it seems. Chances are, NVIDIA's going to look a lot different in the future because of two things: Tesla and Tegra.

If their moneys coming from Tesla and Tegra I cant see them investing money into their gaming products.
 

Wreckage

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Jul 1, 2005
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If their moneys coming from Tesla and Tegra I cant see them investing money into their gaming products.

When you look at things like PhysX and TWIMTBP. I bet they invest more into gaming than anyone else. In fact it's the main reason I have stuck with them since 3DFX died.
 
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