Ending DADT Would Undermine Religious Liberty

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
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.. or so says Tony Perkins, President of the Family Research Council

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/...-dont-tell-would-undermine-religious-liberty/

Some people think allowing open homosexuality in the military means nothing more than opening a door that was previously closed. It means much more than that. It would mean simultaneously ushering out the back door anyone who disapproves of homosexual conduct, whether because of legitimate privacy and health concerns or because of moral or religious convictions.

This outcome is almost inevitable, because pro-homosexual activists have made it clear that merely lifting the “ban” on openly homosexual military personnel will not satisfy them.

The stand-alone bills that have been introduced to overturn the 1993 law, such as S. 3065, call explicitly for:

Revision of all equal opportunity and human relations regulations, directives, and instructions to add sexual orientation nondiscrimination to the Department of Defense Equal Opportunity policy and to related human relations training programs.

While not in the defense authorization bill amendment approved by the House of Representatives and a Senate committee last week, this goal will undoubtedly be accomplished administratively as part of the “necessary policies and regulations” mandated by that amendment.

This means that all 1.4 million members of the U.S. military will be subject to sensitivity training intended to indoctrinate them into the myths of the homosexual movement: that people are born “gay” and cannot change and that homosexual conduct does no harm to the individual or to society.

Anyone who points to the mountain of evidence to the contrary - or merely expresses the personal conviction that sex should be reserved for marriage between one man and one woman - runs the risk of receiving a negative performance evaluation for failing to support the military’s “equal opportunity policy” regarding “sexual orientation.”

For no other offense than believing what all the great monotheistic religions have believed for all of history, some service members will be denied promotion, will be forced out of the service altogether, or will simply choose not to reenlist. Other citizens will choose not to join the military in the first place. The numbers lost will dwarf the numbers gained by opening the ranks to practicing homosexuals.

This pro-homosexual political correctness has already begun to infect the military.

As an ordained minister and a Marine Corps veteran, I was invited to speak at a prayer event at Andrews Air Force Base earlier this year. I had every intention of delivering a spiritual message, not a political one.

But the invitation was withdrawn after I criticized President Barack Obama’s call to open the military to homosexuality in his State of the Union address. The base chaplain told me they had received some complaints - about a dozen. I pointed out that orchestrating a handful of calls was a simple task for homosexual activist groups.

If I was blacklisted merely for supporting existing law, what will happen to those who oppose the new, politically correct law?

Those most likely to suffer are military chaplains. While some in the ranks will simply choose not to exercise their First Amendment rights in order to preserve their careers, this is not an option for chaplains. Their ministry is to proclaim the moral and theological teachings of their faith.

But under the new regulations, will they be free to preach from the entire Bible? Or will they be forced to excise the many passages declaring homosexual conduct to be a sin?

In their counseling role, military chaplains assist all service members who come to them, even if they are of other faith traditions. But if a homosexual seeks counseling regarding his personal relationships, will the chaplain be free to recommend therapy to overcome homosexual attractions? Or will he be forced to affirm a lifestyle that his faith condemns?

While chaplains are members of the military, they must be “endorsed” by a sponsoring religious body. Denominations that are unequivocal in holding to a biblical standard of sexual morality may stop endorsing military chaplains rather than allow them to compromise their principles.

This may result in a chaplain corps that has plenty of Unitarian ministers and homosexual Episcopal priests, but a shortage of clergy to minister to the largest religious groups in America, such as Roman Catholics (whose catechism declares that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered”) or Southern Baptists (whose Baptist Faith and Message declares that “Christians should oppose racism, every form of greed, selfishness, and vice, and all forms of sexual immorality, including adultery, homosexuality, and pornography”).

It was religious liberty that drew the Pilgrims to America and it is religious liberty that leads off our Bill of Rights. But overturning the American military’s centuries-old ban on homosexual conduct, codified in a 1993 law, would mean placing sexual libertinism - a destructive left-wing social dogma found nowhere in the Constitution - above religious liberty, our nation’s first freedom.

A generally ridiculous piece of fiction, to be sure. Bolded wording is of particular lunacy.
 
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zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
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Harry Knox, Director of the Human Rights Campaign's Religion and Faith Program and member of President Obama's Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships offers a response here:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/...-ask-dont-tell-want-to-impose-their-religion/

Last week, the House of Representatives and a Senate committee both took historic steps forward in protecting the liberty and equality of all Americans, by moving to repeal the discriminatory “don’t ask, don’t tell” law that prohibits lesbian, gay and bisexual people from serving openly in our nation’s military.

This policy has seen thousands of dedicated service members discharged simply because of who they are, costing our nation millions of dollars and many highly-trained soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines - including hundreds with critical language skills desperately needed in our ongoing fight against terrorism around the world.


But some right-wing groups, notably the Family Research Council, see the desire of lesbian, gay, and bisexual people to serve our nation openly and honestly not as a commitment to sacrifice everything for the liberty of all Americans, but rather as a threat to the liberties of some. They claim that those whose faith traditions disapprove of homosexuality will no longer be able to serve as military chaplains if we permit open service.

Never mind that for the life of a nation grounded in religious pluralism, our military and its chaplains have served on behalf of the freedom of all Americans, including those who follow a faith that any individual chaplain might consider blasphemous.

Chaplains are fully aware of their duty to all who they counsel. Writing in support of a letter from dozens of religious organizations calling for repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell” - including the Episcopal Church, the Union of Reform Judaism, the United Church of Christ, and the United Methodist Church - Captain John F. Gundlach, a retired U.S. Navy Chaplain noted that:

... as military chaplains, we routinely work with service members whose faith traditions and belief systems are different from ours. The idea that repeal of DADT will infringe on our religious liberty is insulting to all the serving chaplains who professionally minister to and with people of diverse beliefs every day.

But the Family Research Council and their ilk do not truly believe in protecting the liberty of all Americans, as our dedicated service members, gay and straight, do. They instead are seeking to rewrite history - and the core tenets of our Constitutional freedoms - in order to lead new generations back to the bad old days of repression of individual liberties.

They claim to be the voice of religion while ignoring that a growing number of congregations and denominations see discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people as anathema to their core belief that God calls on us to love one another and to practice justice.

In reality, this isn’t about chaplains at all. Groups like the Family Research Council continue to characterize religious liberty and equality for LGBT Americans as an either/or proposition, willfully misrepresenting our nation’s historical experience and ignoring the realities of a nation of many faiths and beliefs that has dealt with such questions for centuries.

Such groups have claimed that federal hate crimes laws will silence preachers, ignoring those laws’ robust protections for free speech and religious expression, as well as the experience in the many states with such protections already in place.

Those groups suggest that federal employment discrimination protections will burden religious employers and co-workers, but belittle a robust religious exemption that has served the interests of religious groups under the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for nearly four decades.

They claim marriage equality will force them to support an idea of marriage contrary to their beliefs, yet ignore when state after state adopts language to guarantee that no church or religious leader need recognize or celebrate such marriages, as well as the long history of religious groups, like the Roman Catholic Church, setting their own rules on marriage.

With “don’t ask, don’t tell” repeal within sight, lesbian, gay and bisexual Americans will soon be able to serve our nation, and protect our liberties, without being forced to lie.

Those who would call that commitment to America a threat to our core values are beyond cynical. Groups like the Family Research Council, screaming for preservation of their privilege to discriminate, are not defending liberty. They instead seek to impose their particular brand of religion on all of us by making it the law of the land.

That is not the America we know and love, and for which many Americans, gay and straight, have fought and died.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
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I think you might be pushing the limits of commentary on this.

The response looks good, and if Roman Catholics can't learn a little tolerance, fuck them.

The only part I agreed with from the first article was regarding the possibility of receiving negative reviews for expressing an opinion such as marriage being between one man and one woman; they should not be punished for such an opinion. Of course, that might just be the writer's fear and hate showing.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I think you might be pushing the limits of commentary on this.

The response looks good, and if Roman Catholics can't learn a little tolerance, fuck them.

The only part I agreed with from the first article was regarding the possibility of receiving negative reviews for expressing an opinion such as marriage being between one man and one woman; they should not be punished for such an opinion. Of course, that might just be the writer's fear and hate showing.

Sure, they should not be punished, just like people should not be punished for saying they are gay, which is what the writer is advocating. I guess DADT is not good enough for his political views, just for gays.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,605
9,881
136
would mean placing sexual libertinism - a destructive left-wing social dogma found nowhere in the Constitution - above religious liberty

.... ...... ...... :eek:

Off the rocker. No padded cell for this guy?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,631
6,721
126
Bigotry against gays is dying a slow painful death. Time to move on to Mexicans and Muslims.

There will always be somebody new on whom haters can project their own self hate.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
hatersgonnahate.jpg
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,631
6,721
126
Yes...hate the 'haters'! lol

Why do you say hate the haters? Where in what I said do you see hate. Maybe, in your rush to hate hate-haters you saw something that wasn't there. There is a big difference between saying what is true and having that message be digested neutrally as factual and not as a personal attack. If the truth about somebody is ugly it isn't the fault of the messenger that that is so. If fact is seen as an attack it is always a projection. Facts are facts. How you may react to them is your issue not mine.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
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Why do you say hate the haters? Where in what I said do you see hate. Maybe, in your rush to hate hate-haters you saw something that wasn't there. There is a big difference between saying what is true and having that message be digested neutrally as factual and not as a personal attack. If the truth about somebody is ugly it isn't the fault of the messenger that that is so. If fact is seen as an attack it is always a projection. Facts are facts. How you may react to them is your issue not mine.
I agree with you that "Bigotry against gays is dying a slow painful death." But when you said "Time to move on to Mexicans and Muslims", I smelled your bigotry and thought the irony was funny.
 

Danube

Banned
Dec 10, 2009
613
0
0
I see Mullen has already lost other military heads by going along with forced premature vote.

I see Franken wants to make anti-gay bullying (whatever that will mean) in schools a federal offense. The homosexual lobby is absolutely intent on criminalizing opposition
and making criticism of homosexuality a crime. Just like Bardot went to jail in France over Muslims the homosexual groups want that here. The average America brainwashed in schools and media to think homosexuals "just want to be left in peace" is in for a rude awakening but its one they desperately deserve.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/1/military-chiefs-split-with-mullen-on-gays/
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
I see Mullen has already lost other military heads by going along with forced premature vote.

I see Franken wants to make anti-gay bullying (whatever that will mean) in schools a federal offense. The homosexual lobby is absolutely intent on criminalizing opposition
and making criticism of homosexuality a crime. Just like Bardot went to jail in France over Muslims the homosexual groups want that here. The average America brainwashed in schools and media to think homosexuals "just want to be left in peace" is in for a rude awakening but its one they desperately deserve.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/1/military-chiefs-split-with-mullen-on-gays/

strekshld1.jpg


Deflectors on full, I see...
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,631
6,721
126
I agree with you that "Bigotry against gays is dying a slow painful death." But when you said "Time to move on to Mexicans and Muslims", I smelled your bigotry and thought the irony was funny.

What? You thought I was serious? I simply pointed to where the bigotry is going as judged by reading P & N. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't we have a lot of hate the illegals and Muslim threads?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,631
6,721
126
I see Mullen has already lost other military heads by going along with forced premature vote.

I see Franken wants to make anti-gay bullying (whatever that will mean) in schools a federal offense. The homosexual lobby is absolutely intent on criminalizing opposition
and making criticism of homosexuality a crime. Just like Bardot went to jail in France over Muslims the homosexual groups want that here. The average America brainwashed in schools and media to think homosexuals "just want to be left in peace" is in for a rude awakening but its one they desperately deserve.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/1/military-chiefs-split-with-mullen-on-gays/

A little time in jail with Bubba might turn that bigotry of yours around.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
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What? You thought I was serious? I simply pointed to where the bigotry is going as judged by reading P & N. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't we have a lot of hate the illegals and Muslim threads?
I don't recall seeing any hate Mexican threads...however, I have seen many regarding control of illegal immigration. Get my drift yet?
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
0
The Family Research Council should just practice "truth in advertising" and admit that they pine for days long gone when religion had as much power as any government; even the power to kill those they didn't like.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
0
Bigotry against gays is dying a slow painful death. Time to move on to Mexicans and Muslims.

There will always be somebody new on whom haters can project their own self hate.

Since when do we have to "move on to Mexicans and Muslims?" Bigots are already quite adept at multitasking.

- wolf
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,631
6,721
126
I don't recall seeing any hate Mexican threads...however, I have seen many regarding control of illegal immigration. Get my drift yet?

Not yet, I just did the translation. You knew of course that most of the illegals are Mexican and those are the folk getting stopped. An illegal Brit has little to worry about.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I don't recall seeing any hate Mexican threads...however, I have seen many regarding control of illegal immigration. Get my drift yet?

Dude, the only way he'll ever get your drift is if he can smoke it.

This just in, most crack cocaine dealers are black. Therefore enforcing laws against crack cocaine is racist. Enforcing laws such as breaking and entering against crack cocaine addicts is also racist, as these are clearly detrimental to crack cocaine dealers. Laws against oxycontin and meth may still be enforced.