Employers: Entry-Level Applicants Are Just About Useless

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Nah, it's some of the higher-level people who are useless.
If you can't act, you might as well direct and all that.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Entitlement to a job is like entitlement to consumer supply/demand. It's your fault the employer can make these decisions.

Quite comical, really.

 

[zephyrprime]

Some fields (I.e software engineering) you may not have a choice. Senior software engineers are very hard to come by, most companies have no choice but to hire junior engineers and groom them.

Also, in what part of the country do senior engineers make $90k? That's pretty much entry level here on west coast.

In the midwest, you would only make that much as a senior developer. I'm a senior developer now (8+years) and I only make 70K in minnesota.

 

[zephyrprime]

Depends on cost of living. 90K in Texas is pretty decent for senior developer. It costs a lot more to live on the west coast, so you get paid more. Does not mean you are better off however..

Yeah, you are definitely not better off when your 2000sqf house costs more than a 1 million dollars, lol.

 

[sze5003]

I've been at my company now for 2 years. Total work experience say 4 years. I'm still entry level developer at my company. The company does care for it's employees and we get bonuses and partnership money now and then.

But one tech lead on my previous team was saying I'm doing the work or a intermediate / almost senior developer kind of like what a tech lead does but wonders why I wasn't promoted to that. Too much red tape and too many people they are paying at entry level that they are only allowed to promote a certain few.

Funny thing is I'm still considered entry but I make more than my friend who came to IT from business and he is one level up from me.

 

[zephyrprime]

One have to drink the Romney koolaid if they think this problem lies in anywhere but the employers.

There is also a disturbing trend that recruiters are far more concerned about the candidates' ability to master their interviews than their actual ability to the job.

This is how it always has been with recruiters. In their defense though, they have to compete with other recruiters often so they have no choice but to hurry and place someone where ever they can.

 

[Spungo]

This is just stupid. The vast majority of employers, especially small business, want life long employees and will do all the CAN do to keep them. Just makes good business sense.

Small businesses want life long employees but can't afford to offer any kind of benefits like health insurance or matching pension contributions. Simply put - they want a 10 but can only pay what a 6 is worth. Large companies can offer benefits but they cut people without blinking. Work slowed? Let's fire our entire engineering and design team! Things start to pick up 6 months later and they complain about some kind of labor shortage and how they can't fill positions. They wouldn't need to fill positions if they stopped firing people every time there is a slow down.

One thing I will say is that small companies seem to pay really well. They don't do benefits, but they understand cash. That might just be my own experience.

 

[sze5003]

Small businesses want life long employees but can't afford to offer any kind of benefits like health insurance or matching pension contributions. Simply put - they want a 10 but can only pay what a 6 is worth. Large companies can offer benefits but they cut people without blinking. Work slowed? Let's fire our entire engineering and design team! Things start to pick up 6 months later and they complain about some kind of labor shortage and how they can't fill positions. They wouldn't need to fill positions if they stopped firing people every time there is a slow down.

One thing I will say is that small companies seem to pay really well. They don't do benefits, but they understand cash. That might just be my own experience.

Yea I know what you mean. I worked at a small state company before my current job. My starting salary was more than what I make now and it had some sort of medical too. But after the school dept went to crap in 2011 here on the east coast I had to find another job quickly.

 

[Vic Vega]

I do interviews for my engineering team and whoever I say to hire is who gets hired, whoever I say not to hire, doesn't get hired. All my boss does is the paperwork.

To address a few points:

Entry level now requires 2-3 years experience: Well, this is why I encourage people to work while in college. Work continuously the entire 4 years. Even if it's 10 hours a week at McDonald's you now have 4 years work experience and that DOES help you.

If you have NEVER worked ANY job and only went to school then good luck getting hired to that entry level job in your field - I see Chili's in your future.

If you worked 10 hours a week at a gas station or car wash or McDonald's or a grocery store stocking shelves you have proven two things an employer wants: A - you can come to work consistency and not get fired. B - you can stick with a job you might not like and get it done despite not liking it.

If I have two identical candidates and one worked in school and one did not it's easy for me to see who I am going to hire. Going to class is not the same as going to work. College is not a job and going and graduating does not tell an employer than you are capable of actually working. WORKING does this.

 

[Vic Vega]

Oh and let me just say, I hate interviewing people. Most people are morons. Finding good people is HARD and it's not the salary, trust me these are good paying jobs. Most of the people I interview are terrible.

 

[piasabird]

They will just hire some outside contractor for janitorial and groundskeeping, they will all be illegal immigrants. This is reality. We should do the same for government. Every politician is an idiot so lets just contract that job out also.

 

[dawheat]

what employers really want is more H1B2 cheap labor

Is this true? I thought part of the immigration process is salary analysis where the role/requirements/experience are measured and a minimum salary is required (that is market rate). That combined with a pretty expensive immigration process doesn't make it seem there is cost savings for skilled labor.

 

[Anubis]

. Work slowed? Let's fire our entire engineering and design team! Things start to pick up 6 months later and they complain about some kind of labor shortage and how they can't fill positions. They wouldn't need to fill positions if they stopped firing people every time there is a slow down.

.

lol this is so true. happened here

work slowed - let lots of people go (some given early retirement) - work picked back up, hired like crazy - work slowed again ... cant let the new hires go that will make us look bad so we let everyone in the middle go as no one is close to ret because of last time...

the generation gap here is huge

 

[zephyrprime]

lol this is so true. happened here

work slowed - let lots of people go (some given early retirement) - work picked back up, hired like crazy - work slowed again ... cant let the new hires go that will make us look bad so we let everyone in the middle go as no one is close to ret because of last time...

the generation gap here is huge

No, you can't let the new hires go because they are the cheapest labor.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Oh and let me just say, I hate interviewing people. Most people are morons. Finding good people is HARD and it's not the salary, trust me these are good paying jobs. Most of the people I interview are terrible.

What you see in others is only the true reflection of yourself.

 

[ArizonaSteve]

Oh and let me just say, I hate interviewing people. Most people are morons. Finding good people is HARD and it's not the salary, trust me these are good paying jobs. Most of the people I interview are terrible.

So much truth in this. It was only when I ended up on the other side of the interview desk that I realized just how bad the majority of candidates are.

 

[Kadarin]

Oh and let me just say, I hate interviewing people. Most people are morons. Finding good people is HARD and it's not the salary, trust me these are good paying jobs. Most of the people I interview are terrible.

This is true, even when the person you're interviewing is applying for a job that pays upwards of $130K.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

to all the people complaining, either you suck at negotiating salary/benefits or you're not as valuable as you think.

 

[Veliko]

to all the people complaining, either you suck at negotiating salary/benefits or you're not as valuable as you think.

Insightful stuff.

 

[IGBT]

cheap labor on the way. I hear they will offer family discounts. Hire the whole family for a flat labor fee rather then pay hourly.