Elsa Gladiac Ultra 64MB at Dartek.com selling for cost

[Spartacus]

That is DEFINITLY not their price..., I am willing to bet anything on it....

On the other hand........
Why wait for NV20 ??? In a bout 2 month something better will come out.,..save your money and use SiS cards

Does it ever end?

 

[jtdrix]

This isn't that good of a deal. As we learned with the Voodoo 2, then with the Riva TNT 2, then with the TNT2 Ultra, then with the Geforce, etc. etc., basically every card with a given chipset performs within ~5% of each other regardless of who manufactured it. Given that a 64mb GF2 Ultra by another company was posted not 24 hours ago at less than $400, I don't think you should bother with the Gladiac at all. You're paying extra for the 3D Revelator (what idiot came up with that name, BTW?) glasses, but... whoop-dee-doo, 3D shuttered glasses. Personally, I've already damaged my eyes enough as it is playing computers all day. I don't think these are a step in the right direction.

 

[BM555]

Ok, a few of you flamed me all right on my -- gone -- locked thread. It shows how ignorant most of you are about retail business. First, I work in RETAIL business, in the sailboat ( and boat parts) business. I also worked twelwe years in car sales, and before that, 15 years in hi-fi retail. There are many things that you people don't know about actual cost prices. You should have checked a few things before calling me a moron and other things.

The cost price on retailers sheets is rarely their actual cost price, whatever it is a car, a sound system, a video card, you name it. There are discounts, like : -10%, if the retailers pays within 30 days; there are discounts on total invoice, like: buy for a total of XX,XXX $ and you get another 5% off; there are quantity discounts on some specific items, like: buy X number of these and get another 10% off; and there are some seasonal and market specific discounts, like: buy NOW X number of my xyz speakers( or cars, etc...) and get another 5% off. The invoice cost of a car: noooo way, that's not what they pay, I know for a fact! Cars markups average 5 to 11%. So who tells you he sells you that nice car at cost because he is showing you his invoice is LYING. The profit margin showing on the cost price of hi-fi equipment: noooo way, I know that for a fact, too! Average markup on hi-fi : from 20 to 40% ( I didn't say video and TV here: they merely make 15% on those). My actual cost on some stainless steel hardware for boats: with all rebates combined, a ss bolt we sell for $0.20 costs us $0.03.
Now, let's get back to that video card: their REAL cost is somewhere between $375. and $425. SO WHEN THEY OFFER ME THAT FRIGGIN CARD AT THEIR COST OF $487.78, THEY ARE LYING TO ME AGAIN, AS THEY WERE LYING TO YOU. YOU GUYS AREN'T YOU TIRED OF BEING LIED TO BY THAT COMPANY? YOU BUNCH OF KIDS WHO FLAMED ME FOR TELLING IT WAS A BLATANT LIE, GO TO SCHOOL ( COMMERCE SCHOOL) AND GET THE FRIGGIN FACTS.

MODS, YOU DELETED MY ORIGINAL POST, BIG DEAL. I WILL REFRAIN FROM SAYING A WORD IN THE FUTURE, IN SPITE OF MY CONVICTIONS, AS I BELIEVE THAT THIS FORUM IS A USEFUL ONE, AND IT SERVED ME TWICE ALREADY ( THE PIXIE MONITOR AND THE CANON 3000). THANKS FOR THOSE. I DO BELIEVE, HOWEVER, THAT YOU SHOULD BE CAREFUL IN THE WAY YOU " PLAY GOD" AND CHOOSE TO BAN SOMEBODY OR HIS POSTS. IN THIS CASE, DARTEK WAS WRONG, DEAD WRONG, AND I DECIDED TO SAY IT LOUD, AFTER GOING THRU THE SAME ORDEAL AS MANY OF US. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT I DID WRONG BY TELLING IT LOUD AND CLEAR,ONLY ONCE, THEN GIVE ME ONE SERIOUS WARNING, AND IF I DON'T ABIDE, BAN ME.
REGARDS
BERNARD

---

OK. You are warned.

In my comment at the top of this thread, you were warned not to spew this kind of rudeness, especially when you are so wrong. For your information, typical discounts for early payment of invoices run around 2%, not 10%. Your experience in the boat hardware business is next to meaningless in the computer peripherals business where some dealers are working on 5% to 10% margins.

I just checked Pricewatch. The lowest price shown for this card is $498. If Dartek is not buying at last column prices (as a highest volume purchaser), add in their basic overhead costs just to do the paperwork, and you can do the math.

More importantly, regardless of the what their actual cost is, all of your experience in whatever business you have been in has taught you nothing about politeness and respect for your fellow forum members.

So you are warned again. Please post politely, or find another forum to vent on.

Thank you,

AnandTech Moderator

 

[Fiddy]

Yeah, well, you're still not getting the card for $120.00 so FORGET ABOUT IT and move on with your life.





Drive thru please. Next.....

 

[BM555]

hey Fiddy, I don't really give a s*it about the card, I was talking about LIES. They pulled a heck of a stunt and then they lie, and lie ,and lie. And you don't want to see the evidence. Go back to your kindergarden.

To people who can read: My post was about Dartek's lies, not about not having that card. I did not even say a word about the card, I was talking about the principle. They ( Dartek) lied to us, even in their latest email. This is not their cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fiddy]

Well BM555, I don't care what their cost is or if they are lying are not. They made an offer, if you don't like it for whatever reason, fine. You have the option to say no thanks and go elsewhere if you choose. It's just that simple, they don't owe you squat. So stop whining that you didn't get something for nothing and get a life.

 

[kingz]

any lawyers around here? anyone know if there are any laws about bait and switch?

 

[Ranger X]

So hostile some of you guys are! Reminds me of me.

 

[BM555]

So stop whining that you didn't get something for nothing and get a life.

-------------------------
"Do you know why there is so much apathy and ignorance in the world? Because most people don't care or understand".

Text

Your words,right?

Well, I don't know what you smoke, but it's quite strong... You say: "...stop whining that you didn't get something for nothing...". I don't know where you got that, but I never, ever said something even close to that. I repeat, for the last time, that the fact that Dar..ek chose to lie AGAIN to us in their offer to sell at their cost is really OBSCENE. This is not their cost, and I explained how I can conclude that. So get a Friggin pair of glasses and read again c.a.r.e.f.u.l.l.y what I wrote, idiot!

 

[Fiddy]

Ahh, well a least we agree on one thing, that you are whining.

 

[BM555]

Moderator,

I spent the last 26 years of my life in the retail business, half of it in the high end hi-fi equipment, and what I said I will not change a word. Their actual cost price list is not what they pay. I should send you, when I get back to work on monday, the different terms and conditions and deals that distributors give us. The exception, in my actual field, being boat electronics: no volume, no big markup!. Systemax, owners of Dartek, is huge. They DO have the best deals from distributors. Their average markup on a high end card like that one is approx 15%, after all their incentives rebates from distributors are applied, therefore they DID lie to all of us when they said we could buy at their cost. I will tell you something you already know, I did not pay the same price for loudspeakers than some competitors when I was buying 500 pairs at a time. Even better if I paid net in 30 days. I should know, I was the darn manager of that store. I was ordering those loudspeakers. And don't forget that higher priced items ALWAYS have a better margin, be it in cars, sound systems, CPUs, etc. Video cards are no different.

I knew very well that nobody would get the cards. No company can afford that loss. However, that company crossed the line when they lied to us blatantly. That's what I was against, nothing else. Obviously, some people did not read the posts.

As for politeness and respect, sorry, but I was called a "bastard" by amnesiac 2.0, a moron by werk,( on the locked thread) and then, Fiddy, who goes on and doesn't even read properly before posting stupidities.
How am I supposed to react? Say,thank you guys? I did appreciate being called a bastard. So, what were you saying about politeness? I'm really sorry, moderator, I don't intend to challenge you, but what did you do when some others called me "bastard" and "moron" ? Where were you? At least, be fair...warn all the posters who call people names.
BM555

 

[BM555]

BTW, you are right, moderator, about the Net 30 days, it's 2 to 5%, not 10. But I've seen often volume discounts going to 10 to 15%. I'm talking serious volumes here.We did that once, bought 600 pairs of Energy Monitor loudspeakers. We sold them at 40% discount and still made 20% markup. Hope you know that markup is calculated from selling price, not cost. Just in case!

 

[broadwayblue]

I knew I probably wasn't going to get the card when I ordered it. But I figured it was worth a shot. If they sold it to me at that price then I would gladly take it. If not, no big deal. But if they are actually lying to me about how their business operates then they need to be dealt with seriously. When a company says they are selling you a product "at our cost of $487.78 for any trouble..." then I should assume that that's the actual price they paid for that item, right? That "cost" doesn't include any expenses the business incurs other than paying for the cards themselves. So, is it really posibble that this company paid $487.78 for each of these? If not, I think we have a problem.

 

[BM555]

Dealer cost, broadwayblue, is actual invoice, after rebates and incentives. It does not include overhead. If it was the case, then, nobody would have the same cost for any product, as some retailers are much less efficient then others.

In cars, one other variable is shipping cost. The further from major hubs, the higher the dealer pays for transportation from the factory to his location.
BM555

 

[KeyzerSoze]

I'm not going to fight with Dartek, nor any of you in the forum. I will say that I do believe that Dartek lied...and lied...and lied...I didn't like the way the handled the cancellations of the orders, but I do like the gesture they made by offering us the cards at their "cost". What I find hard to believe is their definition of their "cost". $487.78? I think not, but I don't give a rat's @ss because I'm not going to buy it from them, nor will I EVER buy anything from them in the future. I'm not going to go around screwing with their ratings because I know that just about every business lies and cheats, especially in the computer industry. Look at places like CompUSA. They charge $40 to install RAM? Give me a break! Does $40 really justify the cost of a couple seconds to open up a case, pop in memory, close the case, and make sure the system registers the new memory and boots up fine? Every business is going to try to screw you for your money, its just that Dartek was openly exposed. Like I said in my previous post, my friend got his Elsa Gladiac GeForce2 Ultra 64MB DDR card for $180 from his friend who works at a wholesaler. And they want us to believe their cost is $487.78. I think not, because if thats true, then they're getting jacked, and they shouldn't be in business.

 

[BM555]

KeyzerSoze,

at least I got some back-up here. Tks. Anyway, their stunt is worn out now. There isn't much else to say about this. You sum it up. Dartek is to avoid, at all costs.

hopefully for me, the mod will take note that I've been called a bastard by some fellow poster before I continued the hostilities. I don't really like being flagged by them as a trouble maker when I'm not the one who started names calling. But mod seems quiet suddenly. Maybe he could email me privately if he's too shy to admit that he should have checked what was written about me first.

goodnite everyone

 

[Phil21]

Sigh..

This is most likely their actual cost paid per unit to whatever distributor. I doubt they bought enough of the things to get a quantity discount at all (Ingram requires massive purchases, I've had extensive dealings with them). When your not buying in massive bulk, it's much cheaper just to buy from one of the distributor on-line end-user sites, as they mark them below what you can get from from Ingram or Techdata (buy.com and onsale/egghead.com). This is why so many retailers were damn pissed when Ingram started the buy.com thing, they were selling below the cost they could buy things at. Granted, they may have gotten the 2-3% mark-down for paying on time, but I don't begrudge them that. Their still taking a loss no matter which way you look at it.

Your experience in any of those fields you were obviously such an expert in is completely and entirely irrelevent. Audio King marks up their A/V stuff insanely high (think 40% or more for the high-end stuff, and about 20-30% for low-end), and they usually are quite competetive with any other high-end A/V retailer here. Best Buy beats them by about 5% or so on the low-end stuff, but big deal. What I'm saying is, the A/V business operates on a whole hell of a lot more margin than the computer hardware business. A small local shop that does some volume usually operates on around a 5-10% markup at most. The "bread and butter" things are marked up much less sometimes (CPU's, RAM), lots of times selling at just above cost to attract poeple into the store and compete with online retailers.

So please, stop quoting ancidotial evidence and blatanty making up facts. You make yourself sound like a whining idiot, and more so as you open your mouth further. I would suggest taking the mods advice and just dropping it. You've obviously shown you have not a clue, and calling someone a liar without hard evidence is inane. What the hell did they ever do to you besides not give you a free 300 some odd dollars?

In short, you have no #@$@ing clue what the hell they paid. So don't talk like you do, and quote ancidotes from completely unrelated fields.

Oh well, you successfully got me motived enough to post.

-Phil

 

[BM555]

Phil, thanks for the politeness of your post. Hope you feel better. First, " anecdotes" is the right word, in english, and in french too! S**t, I'm the darn french canadian here and I have to tell a kid how to write english properly.....Your post has at least a dozen mistakes. Did you get past fifth grade? Retail is retail. Margins are slim in computer industry, two of my friends are computer retailers and I know how they struggle to stay alive. Actually, the more precise way of describing their business is " basement operation", as many computer businesses. Systemax is not your typical " local shop". You don't have a clue either what is their cost. My experience, for whatever it's worth to you, is that the big guys have deals the small guys can only dream about. You know what? When, as the general manager of AudioShop, in downtown Montreal, I ordered 600 pairs of Energy Monitor loudspeakers, my net cost was so low that all the small retailers selling the same brand in the city had to switch their customers to some other brands or models because they just couldn't compete. They were quite angry, and BTW, the distributor couldn't care less. He was selling 600 pairs to ONE account in one shot! We did a few full page ads in newspapers, and some radio ads, and within about ten days, maybe two weeks, they were all gone. Market came back to normal. This is not fiction, it was for real. And you're telling me I make up these things. Punk! I've seen the same scenario over and over in the retail business. Grow up, kid! The biggest wins! Systemax need no apology, nor retraction from any of us. You think they pay $487.78, good for you. But stop using " fu***ing " in your posts if you want any respect from me. You were probably not even born when I started selling. So shut up. Anyway, I'm fed up with you kids. Too bad all this sh*t is going thru the most respected computer related website in North America. I'm gonna grant your wish, from now on I will not post. I'll check you kids play in your sandbox. And again, thanks for the polite post. As**ole.

---

You were warned. Good bye.

AnandTech Moderator

 

[Hanpan]

BM555

I hate to say this but i am sorry you are a canadian you are giving us a bad name.

I don't care what you know about the boat industry but the computer industry is different.
As a business major i would venture i know my fair share of how markups and business works as well as rebates unpon early reciept of money etc.
But for you to assertain that a company is lying based on your knowledge of a few sectors of retail is foolish. Perhpas you don't know what slander is but you'd best look it up. Your attitude reminds me of someone who hasn't passed 5th grade. In fact insulting someone is the way 10 year olds win arguments not the sucessful business man you claim to be. YOu claim the big guys get the best prices but in the computer industry Ingrma Micro is the big guys. They do get the good prices but like most companies systemax probably orders from Ingram. In teh computer industry laorge orders are a couple of thousand not 60-100. Even 600 i somewhat small. Why do you think processors are sold by intel in quanteties of 1000. I hardly doubt there is market for a couple of thousand Geforce Ultra's from one company at hte moment. Why else would they have only 98 in stock.

Finaly your constant use of bulgar language is unacceptable, a sign of poor manners, uneducated and simply unacceptable. If you cannot make a reasonable argument then my condolences but to attack someone becuase of their views or to call them names is unprofessional. I sit here in amazement that you hold a managerial position. Obviously you do not treat your employees this way. Why not extend this courtesy to others as well.

IF you feel the need to discuss this futher please pm as this is a hot deals forum. Please be advised that if you feel you must resort to childish namecalling i will simply ignore you.

 

[cpumaster]

Hi BM555
check out this hot deal on DVDsupercenter: a FREE adult DVD
Hopefully the movie can cool you off
maybe help you take out some of your frustation on your monkey

unless you're just a 10-yr old posting as an old fart :Q
(cuz your argument sounds like one....)
then you need to ask your parents to order it for you.


Link here:Q

 

[auyong]

hey...I was just posting what the email from Dartek said. Why do you people have to be so worked up with this matter? If you think they are lying, sue them, I don't care. If not, just keep your posts civil. Name calling and slandering are uncalled for in a public forum.

Hifi, cars and boats take a forever to get obsolete. If you do not have the money to buy a new car, you can still drive your Mini Minor. These are pretty static industries where prices do not fluctuate much. An Arcam Alpha 9 CD player 2 years back would still cost about the same this year. LPs and 8 tracks still exist today. Can you find a single 5 1/4" floppy disk anywhere now?

New and more advanced computer components are being manufactured every couple months. This makes old equipment obsolete. Imagine using a 16 year old 8086 computer now. You won't even be able to use Windows 1.0! So, users are FORCED to upgrade. Computer retailers know that they will always have customers, so that can afford to have a smaller markup...and also, they need to attract more customers by having a lower price because this is the most competitive industry compared to the abovementioned industries.

So, if you want to compare these industries to the computer industry, there is no comparison because they are completely different.

 

[Phil21]

BM555,

Yes, you are correct. I make spelling and grammar errors when I'm in a non-formal place such as this. I tend to think poeple will look beyond minor mistakes and read into the real point of what I'm trying to say. It seems you cannot.

You keep bringing up one deal you made. This isn't that deal. They don't have 5,000 of the things in stock, and they are not speakers. Otherwise I may be more inclined to agree with what you say. This is an ultra-high-end video card that very, very, few poeple have the means to obtain. Think of this as an Obsidian X24 in the good 'ole V2 days. Great to have, but not a huge user base due to their insane cost.

Now, to play devils advocate. Perhaps what you say is true, they bought the things for $300 each. What proof of this do you have? Do you have a contact that works there? Contact at their distributor? What? If not, whatever price you say they pay is completely and entirely unfounded and a blatant *LIE* by yourself. You may have rationalized and delusioned yourself enough to actually truly believe it, but that makes it no more true than the second you dreamed it up.

Because their cost is listed as the same price as the leading distributor in America (world?), I am inclined to believe them over you. Why? Because number one I have experience in purchasing "semi large" amounts of PC hardware (units in the hundreds at a time of CPU's, ramchips, video cards, etc.). You obviously do not. Number two, they don't show an exorbitant amount of cards in stock. It seems they ordered about 100, which would not be elidgeable for much of a discount, if any. Why do I believe they are telling the truth about quantity? Because there is *NO* mass market for these cards yet. By the time they sold out of say, 1,000 units, they would be losing their ass on depreciation. And lastly, I believe them because what reason do they have to lie now? What the hell possible gain could it get them? Will they sell more of these cards because of the price drop to the supposed cost? Perhaps a few, but nothing staggering. They know that nearly all the poeple who ordered the card at the obviously typo'ed price probably would not order one at an honest one, but they at the very least offered something reasonable as an "oops, we're sorry we messed up" offering. If I owned a company that did a business like this, I don't think I would even offer that. I would send out an explanitory e-mail, which apologized profusely for the mess-up, and perhaps offer a special on something similiar where I don't lose my ass, or my livelyhood (gee, that might not be spelled right. You have something to flame over now).

I just find it downright sickening that you can sit here and try to justify all these made-up claims you seem to like to spew. Trying to screw over a company because some lowly data entry person typo'ed something is just plain stupid and counter-productive.

As for me "swearing" in that post, it was not directed towards you. And also, you kind of filled in the blanks yourself, I could have meant anything by the 4 cartoon explitive characters. But, you like to "know" things because of your vast age and experience (like my age), so I will let you live your delusions. Other than that, I apologize. It was uncalled for and does not help anyone make any point, yourself included.

And as for my obligatory personal attack on you? (you seem to have attempted to make enough on me, and since your so obviously mature and well-versed I figured I had better include one to attempt to show I am on-par with your mental level) Your momma's fat. Essentially says the same thing with without all the long-windedness and BS.

Ah well, last post on this subject. It's getting rather tiring to write.

-Phil

 

[msbytes]

dartek deal is lame

 

[Seattle]

The only people who know what the card really costs are people in the industry.

All I know is that they aren't getting the money they need for overhead by marking up something 10%. That is a crock. The higher end gear in ANYTHING has to have a higher mark up because they sell very few of them, just as in high end camera's, stereo's, etc. All these things are constantly being improved, not just computers.

Go out and spend $20,000.00 on a stereo and you can rest assured that the actual cost was about half. A video card that costs the same as some entire computer systems is in the same league.

I have seen this card advertised for less than this merchant claims is his cost. If that is really his cost, then he isn't buying very many of them and he should offer them to us for half price if we can guarantee him to buy 1000 collectively.

 

[cantstop]

yeah... yeah... yeah...

People make mistakes. Dartek had a pricing error. Dartek realized there was no way they could make good on their pricing. (How many people ordered 98 of these things?) Dartek messed up with their handling of this. They are trying to give a good deal on the card, but they are not going to give it away for free.

$487.78 may be a good price for this card, but it is not the lowest price on a geforce2 64mb ultra <just search the threads>.

'nuff said...