Elon Musk now owns 9.2% of twitter...update.. will soon be the sole owner as Board of Directors accepts his purchase offer

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Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
5,052
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How do you think leaders destroy things? With words. Language is power, especially in the hands of the powerful. So being concerned about Trump's negative side would mean by default you have to be concerned about his tweeting

The POTUS has much more than words. He can literally dismantle environmental protection of the planet:
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
5,052
6,623
136
Yeah but that wasn't evidence, you just declared some things to be true based on nothing.

The network effect is a real thing. The value of social media platforms are not easily duplicated technology or policies, but the largely locked in user base. This seems rather difficult to dispute.


 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,758
54,781
136
The network effect is a real thing. The value of social media platforms are not easily duplicated technology or policies, but the largely locked in user base. This seems rather difficult to dispute.


And yet we know it's not determinative as evidenced by Facebook killing MySpace and the fact that Facebook keeps buying up other social media companies it views as a threat.

I agree that network effects are powerful but really the main thing preventing Parler, Gab, Truth Social, etc. from amounting to anything is they don't offer any value proposition to entice Twitter's users away. Their fundamental marketing pitch is 'Twitter, but with all of the worst people you know'. The market is understandably not terribly interested in that.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,298
2,513
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Not for this purpose it doesn't. You are attempting to have the government force Twitter to speak in ways it doesn't want to.

Government.
Compelled.
Speech.
Is.
Unconstitutional.

Twitter isn't speaking the users of it's platform are speaking.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,758
54,781
136
Twitter isn't speaking the users of it's platform are speaking.
False. People are typing things into Twitter and then Twitter is then using its facilities to broadcast this to a global audience.

Government intrusion on editorial decisions on what to broadcast or not was unanimously held to violate the first amendment.

In addition SCOTUS has recognized the first amendment right of a corporation to not publish speech it disagrees with.

As you can see what you're proposing is blatantly unconstitutional.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
5,052
6,623
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And yet we know it's not determinative as evidenced by Facebook killing MySpace and the fact that Facebook keeps buying up other social media companies it views as a threat.
https://www.business-standard.com/a...-was-a-threat-to-facebook-120073000324_1.html

Facebook was always a do everything company, and gobbling up new emerging areas, is the best way to keep doing everything. Ever hear the phrase "only the paranoid survive"? Instagram probably wasn't a threat, but having a paranoid view, and adding them to Facebook, grows Facebook.

Facebook is several times larger than Myspace ever was, and Myspace was MBA'd to death, while FB was doing everything:
"There was a period of time where, if they had just copied Facebook rapidly, I think they would have been Facebook. The network effects, the scale effects were enormous. There was so much power there."


I agree that network effects are powerful but really the main thing preventing Parler, Gab, Truth Social, etc. from amounting to anything is they don't offer any value proposition to entice Twitter's users away. Their fundamental marketing pitch is 'Twitter, but with all of the worst people you know'. The market is understandably not terribly interested in that.

Then where is the good Twitter clone competing with them? If the main problem is "Twitter, but with all of the worst people you know", just don't do that, build a good Twitter clone and get rich.

The real main problem is the "network effect", sure having the toxic clowns, won't help, but they are side-note on why no one (not just the alt-right) can really compete with FB and Twitter. Most know better than to even try, because you need a near miracle to knock out the heavily entrenched incumbent when it's all about social network critical mass, and they have extreme critical mass.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,298
2,513
136
False. People are typing things into Twitter and then Twitter is then using its facilities to broadcast this to a global audience.

Government intrusion on editorial decisions on what to broadcast or not was unanimously held to violate the first amendment.

In addition SCOTUS has recognized the first amendment right of a corporation to not publish speech it disagrees with.

As you can see what you're proposing is blatantly unconstitutional.

Great, then Twitter is a Publisher and is also liable for what is posted on their platform.

Thank you for clearing that up.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,758
54,781
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Facebook was always a do everything company, and gobbling up new emerging areas, is the best way to keep doing everything. Ever hear the phrase "only the paranoid survive"? Instagram probably wasn't a threat, but having a paranoid view, and adding them to Facebook, grows Facebook.

Facebook is several times larger than Myspace ever was, and Myspace was MBA'd to death, while FB was doing everything:
"There was a period of time where, if they had just copied Facebook rapidly, I think they would have been Facebook. The network effects, the scale effects were enormous. There was so much power there."

So in other words network effects weren't sufficient to save them from a superior product.

Then where is the good Twitter clone competing with them? If the main problem is "Twitter, but with all of the worst people you know", just don't do that, build a good Twitter clone and get rich.

The real main problem is the "network effect", sure having the toxic clowns, won't help, but they are side-note on why no one (not just the alt-right) can really compete with FB and Twitter. Most know better than to even try, because you need a near miracle to knock out the heavily entrenched incumbent when it's all about social network critical mass, and they have extreme critical mass.
This is based on the assumption that Twitter must be bad now. People sure seem to like it! What if there isn't a 'good Twitter' to make because Twitter is already good?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,758
54,781
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Great, then Twitter is a Publisher and is also liable for what is posted on their platform.

Thank you for clearing that up.
False - section 230.

We've been over this. Twitter is protected from liability due to section 230. It cannot be forced to publish content it doesn't want to because of the Constitution. There is no escaping these simple facts.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,298
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False - section 230.

We've been over this. Twitter is protected from liability due to section 230. It cannot be forced to publish content it doesn't want to because of the Constitution. There is no escaping these simple facts.

If you repealed section 230 then Twitter would have to make a decision if it was going to be a Publisher or a Platform.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,157
12,605
136
If you repealed section 230 then Twitter would have to make a decision if it was going to be a Publisher or a Platform.
If you repealed section 230, Twitter (and anything else like it, including Anandtech Forums) could be held liable for the content it hosts.

Which means moderation would be incredibly strict, or the forums would cease to exist altogether.

Hilariously, this would backfire on the so-called free speech conservatives as they would be moderated into oblivion.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,758
54,781
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If you repealed section 230 then Twitter would have to make a decision if it was going to be a Publisher or a Platform.
Well sure but that's a terrible idea. Seems equally likely Twitter would either relocate to another country where they can escape US liability or just shut down to salvage whatever value was remaining before bankruptcy.

Without section 230 Twitter has two choices - moderate nothing so have your platform covered in porn, Nazi shitposting, etc. that will drive away all your advertisers and therefore your revenues or be subject to ruinous liability because it's impossible to sufficiently moderate at that scale and catch everything.

Now if you don't like websites with user generated content like, say, ATPN, then repealing section 230 is a great idea. If you don't want them to all go away though looks like you're stuck with it.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,367
136
The POTUS has much more than words. He can literally dismantle environmental protection of the planet:

Trump rose to power via language. He basically undermined our entire democracy with nothing but words. He has undermined the entire character of the nation with his words.

Get a clue about how things work.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,298
2,513
136
Well sure but that's a terrible idea. Seems equally likely Twitter would either relocate to another country where they can escape US liability or just shut down to salvage whatever value was remaining before bankruptcy.

Without section 230 Twitter has two choices - moderate nothing so have your platform covered in porn, Nazi shitposting, etc. that will drive away all your advertisers and therefore your revenues or be subject to ruinous liability because it's impossible to sufficiently moderate at that scale and catch everything.

Now if you don't like websites with user generated content like, say, ATPN, then repealing section 230 is a great idea. If you don't want them to all go away though looks like you're stuck with it.

Repeal Section 230.

Put in place guidelines that Twitter in order to remain a Platform would need to be neutral in moderation and let them know if they follow the guidelines they will not be held liable for content.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,157
12,605
136
Repeal Section 230.

Put in place guidelines that Twitter in order to remain a Platform would need to be neutral in moderation and let them know if they follow the guidelines they will not be held liable for content.
What does neutral mean?
Can I call musk a pedophile?
Can I call for a violent insurrection against the government?
Can I call victims of a mass shooting crisis actors?
Can I say that the loser of the 2020 election won and that mass voter fraud occurred?

Edit: your suggestion also puts the government in the place of regulating speech, which ironically the goal was to avoid
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,298
2,513
136
What does neutral mean?
Can I call musk a pedophile?
Can I call for a violent insurrection against the government?
Can I call victims of a mass shooting crisis actors?
Can I say that the loser of the 2020 election won and that mass voter fraud occurred?

Sure call Musk a PedoGuy.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
5,052
6,623
136
Trump rose to power via language. He basically undermined our entire democracy with nothing but words. He has undermined the entire character of the nation with his words.

Get a clue about how things work.

:rolleyes:

I said I was more concerned with his destroying the planet via POTUS power than with his tweets, while he was was POTUS.

Now your argument is that he got into power because of his tweets??

That seems to be goalpost move.

When he was president he had MUCH more power than tweeting.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
What does neutral mean?
Can I call musk a pedophile?
Can I call for a violent insurrection against the government?
Can I call victims of a mass shooting crisis actors?
Can I say that the loser of the 2020 election won and that mass voter fraud occurred?

Edit: your suggestion also puts the government in the place of regulating speech, which ironically the goal was to avoid
yes if one is willing to risk the legal liability (Twitter should do nothing)
yes if one is willing to risk the legal liability (Twitter should do nothing)
yes
yes
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,298
2,513
136
Edit: your suggestion also puts the government in the place of regulating speech, which ironically the goal was to avoid

The goal was to make sure that Oligarchs are not able to determine what constitutes free speech.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,367
136
:rolleyes:

I said I was more concerned with his destroying the planet via POTUS power than with his tweets, while he was was POTUS.

Now your argument is that he got into power because of his tweets??

That seems to be goalpost move.

When he was president he had MUCH more power than tweeting.

I said with words. Twitter is a powerful platform whose power comes from words. No I didn't say he only got into power because of his tweets, however he mainly got into power with his words, and that just happened to be one of his biggest platforms. So it is a part of many reasons why Trump became as destructive as he did - his words, of which Twitter was a noticeable chunk of how he used his words to get his message out there.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,758
54,781
136
Repeal Section 230.
lol - no.

Put in place guidelines that Twitter in order to remain a Platform would need to be neutral in moderation and let them know if they follow the guidelines they will not be held liable for content.
First, all available evidence is that Twitter is neutral in moderation. Second, 'neutral' as decided by who? Is the idea that if they are found non-neutral at some point by a court or whatever that they become liable for all the various shit that was posted on there? That would again, lead to them fleeing to another country or shutting down entirely.

Also, imagine how insanely unworkable this would be as national policy. That would mean any time someone complained the courts would need to pore over each individual site's content moderation policy and then engage in some sort of evaluation of all the posts on it to decide if it was applied 'neutrally' or not, which would be a herculean task. How is a court evaluating the billions of messages posted on Twitter to decide if their content moderation is 'neutral'?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,758
54,781
136
The goal was to make sure that Oligarchs are not able to determine what constitutes free speech.
'we had to destroy the village to save it'.

It's remarkably authoritarian to decide that the government needs to employ armies of people to monitor social media websites to enforce 'neutrality'. It's also remarkable that you don't seem to realize that what's considered 'neutral' is likely to be a lot more biased if you put politicians in charge of it than if you leave it as it is. Imagine what would have been considered 'not neutral' under Trump, for example.
 
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