Eliot Spitzer: ‘Every person whose interest rate depended on Libor is a victim’

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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http://current.com/shows/viewpoint/...-interest-rate-depended-on-libor-is-a-victim/

Very good read and it really does hit the nail on the head. I'm thoroughly surprised less people are enraged about this. I personally don't have a loan with anyone or credit cards, so the LIBOR thing really only effects me by proxy, but it is outrageous that heads aren't rolling for this yet. People kill over far less.

Eliot Spitzer:

The Libor scandal is perhaps the biggest market-rigging conspiracy in Wall Street history. Almost all interest rates are affected by Libor, so every person with outstanding bank-issued debt could be a victim of this Wall Street cartel.

That’s why we have to beware when one of CNBC’s in-house apologists for Wall Street implies this criminal behavior didn’t hurt borrowers. Calling something a victimless crime is shorthand for saying, “Who cares?”

Indeed, last week, Larry Kudlow went so far as to say that Barclays, which has admitted manipulating the rate, was the victim.

Larry Kudlow: “I mean, maybe you’re right, the victim was the lender, that was Barclays. But I don’t know. The Justice Department says this could be a criminal prosecution. I don’t get that. Who are the victims? (I don’t get it either.) Who are the victims?”

This is Alice-in-Wonderland logic, saying the criminal is the victim.

Let’s be clear: Every person whose interest rate depended on Libor is a victim. The rate you paid was not the product of honest competition and reporting. Some people lost lots of money because of the manipulation, others may have saved some, but the game was rigged. The integrity of the market was destroyed so the banks could put money in their own pockets — our money.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Perhaps I haven't read enough about it, but what I have read indicates that the banks were largely under reporting their interest rates to make themselves appear more stable etc. Accordingly, those whose debts were pegged to the LIBOR rate paid a lower amount of interest than they should. If so, I don't see how borrowers were victims.

Fern
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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Perhaps I haven't read enough about it, but what I have read indicates that the banks were largely under reporting their interest rates to make themselves appear more stable etc. Accordingly, those whose debts were pegged to the LIBOR rate paid a lower amount of interest than they should. If so, I don't see how borrowers were victims.

Fern

Uh because they wouldn't see their rate change? Only the banks lending to each other would. Everyone was swindled here as the whole game was rigged.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Originally Posted by Fern View Post
Perhaps I haven't read enough about it, but what I have read indicates that the banks were largely under reporting their interest rates to make themselves appear more stable etc. Accordingly, those whose debts were pegged to the LIBOR rate paid a lower amount of interest than they should. If so, I don't see how borrowers were victims.

Fern
Uh because they wouldn't see their rate change? Only the banks lending to each other would. Everyone was swindled here as the whole game was rigged.

I'm not following you.

Initially I was interested in this LIBOR thing. I have a client with substantial loan (about $10 million) and the rate is adjusted monthly and pegged to the LIBOR.

As I said, everything I read said the LIBOR was manipulated to be lower, thus my client paid less in interest than if it wasn't manipulated. My point: what's there to be angry about when someone is paying LESS?

I understand the impropriety, but it looks like the banks hurt themselves and I don't care about them.

Fern
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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I'm not following you.

Initially I was interested in this LIBOR thing. I have a client with substantial loan (about $10 million) and the rate is adjusted monthly and pegged to the LIBOR.

As I said, everything I read said the LIBOR was manipulated to be lower, thus my client paid less in interest than if it wasn't manipulated. My point: what's there to be angry about when someone is paying LESS?

I understand the impropriety, but it looks like the banks hurt themselves and I don't care about them.

Fern

privately manipulated interest, how do you know he was getting a proper interest rate? also, even if he came out in the + on this, that means someone else came out in the -. Why? due to a rigged game. heads should roll, we need to stop giving assholes a pass.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Geitner knew about this and did nothing to warn people.
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Weeeell Doc Savage what the hell is new. How quickly you forget Hank the Crank Pualson, another Investment industry insider who was asleep at switch. They are all rotten crooks.

As for me, why should I care if investment gurus bet the farm on risky and stupid investments,

But wait, those STUPID crooks are not betting their own money, when they are actually betting our money they control in terms of bank accounts, 401-K accounts, and other assets we the people were so stupid to allow those crooks to control. And then when they bet stupid for short term high commissions, we suddenly find out its our money and not their money that pays the forfeit. As we suddenly discover they are to big to fail as our money and not theirs must repay their stupidity,

But if we want to reform the system, we find the republirats veto any reforms.

So what is the solution, put your money in a mattress because our existing banking system can' be trusted. Your Money may not grow but at least it won't shrink either.
 

shabby

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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http://www.healthcareadministration.com/libor/

libor.jpg
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
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Thanks Elliot. You got the number of that girl?
1. You couldn't afford her.
2. What a lame and childish way to attack someone you disagree with. You are a waste of electrons.

Spitzer was highly effective in fighting the corruption behind the greedy elite who've looted America. That was unforgivable, which is why they brought him down.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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1. You couldn't afford her.
2. What a lame and childish way to attack someone you disagree with. You are a waste of electrons.

Spitzer was highly effective in fighting the corruption behind the greedy elite who've looted America. That was unforgivable, which is why they brought him down.

Oh get a sense of humor you jackass. If he wanted to remove corruption he didn't need to look any farther than his own actions. He had to resign in humiliation over Troopergate and prostitutes.
 
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Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
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As I said, everything I read said the LIBOR was manipulated to be lower, thus my client paid less in interest than if it wasn't manipulated. My point: what's there to be angry about when someone is paying LESS?

Lack of integrity should never be ok with anyone, especially when those same people who falsely adjusted them can just turn it over and make them too high at any time and have already shown the lack of integrity and character that would lead them to want to do so when it is most profittable to them and most damaging to the rest of us.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
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Perhaps I haven't read enough about it, but what I have read indicates that the banks were largely under reporting their interest rates to make themselves appear more stable etc. Accordingly, those whose debts were pegged to the LIBOR rate paid a lower amount of interest than they should. If so, I don't see how borrowers were victims.

Fern

This. Banks make you a victim by charging you lower interest rate, ??? , and then profit.

Libor has been going out of favor in professional finance since about 2009, the credit risk component makes it unattractive to price risk.
 
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GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
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Thanks Elliot. You got the number of that girl?

Your trolling is both obvious and pathetic. You do realize he lost his job because of that right?

But on the other hand, look at David Vitter: Link

Married GOP senator, got found out that he was going to a prostitution service...guess what? The GOP didn't disown him, they re-elected him!

Anthony Weiner didn't even have a prostitute, and had to resign, but Vitter didn't.

So would you care to comment on this? Or are your blinders on sooooo tight you don't notice these things?
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Your trolling is both obvious and pathetic. You do realize he lost his job because of that right?

But on the other hand, look at David Vitter: Link

Married GOP senator, got found out that he was going to a prostitution service...guess what? The GOP didn't disown him, they re-elected him!

Anthony Weiner didn't even have a prostitute, and had to resign, but Vitter didn't.

So would you care to comment on this? Or are your blinders on sooooo tight you don't notice these things?
FYI...I know it's hard for you to contain your hatred of all things Republican, but this thread is about the LIBOR scandal.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
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Your trolling is both obvious and pathetic. You do realize he lost his job because of that right?

But on the other hand, look at David Vitter: Link

Married GOP senator, got found out that he was going to a prostitution service...guess what? The GOP didn't disown him, they re-elected him!

Anthony Weiner didn't even have a prostitute, and had to resign, but Vitter didn't.

So would you care to comment on this? Or are your blinders on sooooo tight you don't notice these things?

Spitzer and Cuomo have also gone on witch hunts designed to fine people who acted in good faith without any grounds other than the power of the state to conduct inspections supposedly for the "public good" but were in fact designed as a way to get money and appear as heroes. NY even hired temps to dumpster dive recently looking for HIPPA violations, not because they had cause to believe wrongdoing but because the draconian fines offeres a goldmine for the smallest accidental infraction. Quite a return on investment.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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That was unforgivable, which is why they brought him down.

Typical liberal mentality. Sure, it wasn't his own actions with escorts and hookers (his own choices) that brought him down, it was some "they" group of evil greedy banksters that did it. They must have forced him to do those things.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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I admin I'm not well versed enough in the whole LIBOR fiasco, but if what fern is saying is true, that the rates were rigged to be lower than what they otherwise would have been, then the consumers borrowing money were the winners and the banks lending the money were the losers. <shrug>
 
Nov 30, 2006
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http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-07-26/commentary/32858545_1_treasury-secretary-timothy-geithner-credit-default-swaps-banks

New Geithner disclosures further cloud his record
Commentary: Treasury chief too timid with the big banks
July 26, 2012 Darrell Delamaide

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) &#8212; Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, who has kept his head low for months, is back in the news, coming under fire for his somewhat timid response four years ago to suggestions of fraud in the setting of Libor.

The manipulation of the London interbank offered rate by global banks has now emerged as a full-blown scandal and further evidence that these banks have become a rogue industry. It has also raised new questions about Geithner&#8217;s record as head of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, the job he held in 2008 at the onset of the financial crisis.

Geithner defended his reluctance to report possible fraud by British banks in setting of Libor in a pair of congressional hearings this week. He said his action to recommend structural reforms in Libor was the appropriate response in the midst of the crisis and other actions were the responsibility of British regulators. Read MarketWatch&#8217;s news coverage of Geithner coming under fire.

But these new revelations come as Geithner nemesis Neil Barofsky, the former special inspector general for the TARP program, paints a thoroughly unflattering portrait of the Treasury secretary in his new book, &#8220;Bailout.&#8221;

Barofsky may have an axe to grind, but he grinds it well, portraying Geithner as a dissembling bureaucrat in thrall to the banks and reminding us all that President Barack Obama&#8217;s selection of Geithner as his top economic official may have been one of his biggest mistakes, and a major reason the White House incumbent has to fight so hard for re-election.

From his willingness to bail out the banks with virtually no accountability, to his failure to make holders of credit default swaps on AIG take a haircut, to his inability to mount any effective program for mortgage relief, Geithner systematically favored Wall Street over Main Street and created much of the public&#8217;s malaise in the aftermath of the crisis.

Even before the new disclosures about Fed inaction regarding possible Libor fraud, Geithner&#8217;s tenure as New York Fed chief was marred by his failure to take any effective action against the explosive growth of the credit default swaps in the first place.

Geithner was uneasy about the rapid growth of the new derivatives, but his only action, again somewhat timid in the face of the potential threat, was to ask the banks to speed up their bookkeeping procedures.

Barofsky, a former prosecutor, relates that he rooted for Geithner to get the Treasury appointment and was initially willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when it emerged that he had misreported his taxes while he worked at the International Monetary Fund.

But as more details on those unpaid taxes came out and Geithner&#8217;s explanations seemed increasingly disingenuous, Barofsky had his first doubts about the secretary-designate.

Barofsky, of course, was not alone in his skepticism, and Geithner&#8217;s credibility was damaged from the very beginning by the disclosures about his unpaid taxes.
 
Jan 25, 2011
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I admin I'm not well versed enough in the whole LIBOR fiasco, but if what fern is saying is true, that the rates were rigged to be lower than what they otherwise would have been, then the consumers borrowing money were the winners and the banks lending the money were the losers. <shrug>


Not quite. The impact of LIBOR rates extends across just about all aspects of finance. Money markets, fixed income securities, mutual funds etc... While some small benefit may have occured in some areas there are large impacts in many others.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
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Is there any question wheter the banks profited from it?


If they did even if victimless it distorted the market and made the cheaters the winners.

Clear cut fraud regardless of who the victim is...

If I cheat on my taxes Fern should I be subject to fine irregardless of who was hurt?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
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Typical liberal mentality. Sure, it wasn't his own actions with escorts and hookers (his own choices) that brought him down, it was some "they" group of evil greedy banksters that did it. They must have forced him to do those things.
Piss off, moron. Of course it was his own actions that brought him down. But, unless you're even dumber than I thought, even you must recognize there are countless public figures and powerful people who engage in the very same activities as Spitzer. Yet somehow they manage to avoid such scandals, or in those extremely rare cases where their behavior comes to light (e.g. Vitter, as GarfieldtheCat notes), there are at most minor consequences. What made Spitzer different? Why did he pay so dearly for such a common, and frankly harmless transgression, while those who pander to the status quo skate by? I think even you can connect the dots, if only you can momentarily set aside your shameless sucking up to the greedy elite.