Eliminate Sleep? Is evolution proof that we can't get rid of the need for sleep?

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Arcadio
Evolution eliminates unnecessary needs. Sleep is necessary. Therefore, sleep cannot be eliminated.

No. Evolution is about survival of the fittest. There are a lot of "unnecessary" steps that take place with in the cells of the body that could be much more efficient, but aren't.

Nature takes what it has and makes it work in whatever fashion it can, and the group that has the conglomerate of shit that works best will be the one that gets to spread its genetic information to the next generation.

Anyway, sleep is a necessary function. Take this one example: in development, such as the start of puberty, you only release LH/FSH (gonad release hormones) while you're sleeping. These hormones subsequently trigger the release of sex hormones during the day. It takes a while before your pituitary is regularly releasing LH/FSH in the an adult fashion (24-hour, pulsatile).

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Arcadio
Never mind evolution. In a few decades, our technological advances will be so great, that we will be able to modify our own bodies to fit whatever needs are necessary. We will be in full control of our biological systems. If a person is about to die: no problem! just transfer the information in that person's brain to a blank template and continue living.

I highly doubt this.

Sure, we might have the human genome sequenced, but do we know what all those proteins do? All the functions that they may serve? Some proteins can serve multiple functions or be found in multiple cellular pathways. Screw with one protein and you can fuck up entire cellular and macrocellular systems.

And the whole memory thing.... yeah.... right :roll:

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Arcadio
Never mind evolution. In a few decades, our technological advances will be so great, that we will be able to modify our own bodies to fit whatever needs are necessary. We will be in full control of our biological systems. If a person is about to die: no problem! just transfer the information in that person's brain to a blank template and continue living.

That may be possible some day, but it is going to take a lot longer than a few decades. You and I will not see it in our lifetimes. We will see improvements, but not as drastic as you are describing in that time period. Not only will it take a while for the science to be perfected, but then you also need to consider all of the moral conflicts and government legislation necessary.

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Originally posted by: NuroMancer
Why, evolution is cause and effect, so what is the stimulus for evolution phasing out sleep?

Progress at a faster pace.

at the price of longevity. You would wear out at a much faster rate.

I think that's part of the argument. But to contradict that idea, we're living longer ever year and surveys are saying we believe we can function on less sleep than generations before us. Average amount of sleep someone got before electricity was 10hrs a night. That's nuts.

 

[venkman]

Originally posted by: Arcadio
Evolution eliminates unnecessary needs. Sleep is necessary. Therefore, sleep cannot be eliminated.

You also fail at understanding evolution

 

[Train]

The head lion sleeps so the other males have a chance to drop thier seed in the females.

This is an actual evolutionary need for sleep.

It's also pointed to the reason why males of a lot of species (including humans) tend to fall asleep after sex

 

[darkxshade]

Why would evolution eliminate sleep? I like sleep.

 

[Arcadio]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Arcadio
Never mind evolution. In a few decades, our technological advances will be so great, that we will be able to modify our own bodies to fit whatever needs are necessary. We will be in full control of our biological systems. If a person is about to die: no problem! just transfer the information in that person's brain to a blank template and continue living.

That may be possible some day, but it is going to take a lot longer than a few decades. You and I will not see it in our lifetimes. We will see improvements, but not as drastic as you are describing in that time period. Not only will it take a while for the science to be perfected, but then you also need to consider all of the moral conflicts and government legislation necessary.

You're forgetting about the exponential rise of technological advancements that is presently occurring. The mistake that most people make is that they think technological progress will always advance at the current rate, when in reality the rate of technological advancement is also increasing. In other words, the more progress we make, the faster we will be able to achieve new progress. So right now, with current technology, we are experiencing many tech advances. But those same tech advances will develop even more tech advances, faster than before. And those new tech advances will develop even more tech advances, even faster than before..

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: Train
The head lion sleeps so the other males have a chance to drop thier seed in the females.

This is an actual evolutionary need for sleep.

It's also pointed to the reason why males of a lot of species (including humans) tend to fall asleep after sex

epic facepalm

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Arcadio

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Arcadio
Never mind evolution. In a few decades, our technological advances will be so great, that we will be able to modify our own bodies to fit whatever needs are necessary. We will be in full control of our biological systems. If a person is about to die: no problem! just transfer the information in that person's brain to a blank template and continue living.

That may be possible some day, but it is going to take a lot longer than a few decades. You and I will not see it in our lifetimes. We will see improvements, but not as drastic as you are describing in that time period. Not only will it take a while for the science to be perfected, but then you also need to consider all of the moral conflicts and government legislation necessary.

You're forgetting about the exponential rise of technological advancements that is presently occurring. The mistake that most people make is that they think technological progress will always advance at the current rate, when in reality the rate of technological advancement is also increasing. In other words, the more progress we make, the faster we will be able to achieve new progress. So right now, with current technology, we are experiencing many tech advances. But those same tech advances will develop even more tech advances, faster than before. And those new tech advances will develop even more tech advances, even faster than before..

You're overestimating how fast certain scientific fields are actually moving.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Arcadio

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Arcadio
Never mind evolution. In a few decades, our technological advances will be so great, that we will be able to modify our own bodies to fit whatever needs are necessary. We will be in full control of our biological systems. If a person is about to die: no problem! just transfer the information in that person's brain to a blank template and continue living.

That may be possible some day, but it is going to take a lot longer than a few decades. You and I will not see it in our lifetimes. We will see improvements, but not as drastic as you are describing in that time period. Not only will it take a while for the science to be perfected, but then you also need to consider all of the moral conflicts and government legislation necessary.

You're forgetting about the exponential rise of technological advancements that is presently occurring. The mistake that most people make is that they think technological progress will always advance at the current rate, when in reality the rate of technological advancement is also increasing. In other words, the more progress we make, the faster we will be able to achieve new progress. So right now, with current technology, we are experiencing many tech advances. But those same tech advances will develop even more tech advances, faster than before. And those new tech advances will develop even more tech advances, even faster than before..

OK Nostrademus. What other technological marvels will be upon us in the next few decades?

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: Arcadio

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Arcadio
Never mind evolution. In a few decades, our technological advances will be so great, that we will be able to modify our own bodies to fit whatever needs are necessary. We will be in full control of our biological systems. If a person is about to die: no problem! just transfer the information in that person's brain to a blank template and continue living.

That may be possible some day, but it is going to take a lot longer than a few decades. You and I will not see it in our lifetimes. We will see improvements, but not as drastic as you are describing in that time period. Not only will it take a while for the science to be perfected, but then you also need to consider all of the moral conflicts and government legislation necessary.

You're forgetting about the exponential rise of technological advancements that is presently occurring. The mistake that most people make is that they think technological progress will always advance at the current rate, when in reality the rate of technological advancement is also increasing. In other words, the more progress we make, the faster we will be able to achieve new progress. So right now, with current technology, we are experiencing many tech advances. But those same tech advances will develop even more tech advances, faster than before. And those new tech advances will develop even more tech advances, even faster than before..

Really? Because many futurists believe we are heading for a technology progress plateau due to our reliance of the silicon chip and our inability to increase the amount of transistors it can hold. Some not only believe that we're heading for a plateau but actually a steady decline in progress within humanity as a whole because of this. I'll look for a relative link for citation.

This is the first time I've legitimately acknowledged your presence on this forum, Arcadio. Even though its a tangent off the main topic. Don't let me down, son.

 

[recoil80]

Evolution would be sleeping in office for the whole day and get paid for that

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

I think that's part of the argument. But to contradict that idea, we're living longer ever year and surveys are saying we believe we can function on less sleep than generations before us. Average amount of sleep someone got before electricity was 10hrs a night. That's awesome.

Fixed. I could easily sleep 9-10 hours every day, and I feel great when I do. The brain requires a fixed amount of time to sort/discard all the information it's received during the day. Not allowing it to complete this task results in degraded functionality and/or hallucinations (in extreme deprivation).

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

I think that's part of the argument. But to contradict that idea, we're living longer ever year and surveys are saying we believe we can function on less sleep than generations before us. Average amount of sleep someone got before electricity was 10hrs a night. That's awesome.

Fixed. I could easily sleep 9-10 hours every day, and I feel great when I do. The brain requires a fixed amount of time to sort/discard all the information it's received during the day. Not allowing it to complete this task results in degraded functionality and/or hallucinations (in extreme deprivation).

Its nuts because the average time now a days is something like 7 horus. That's a big change in the last 100 years. Man if I could sleep 10 hours a day (I could, I just like staying up late too much) then I'd be a machine at work.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Arcadio
Never mind evolution. In a few decades, our technological advances will be so great, that we will be able to modify our own bodies to fit whatever needs are necessary. We will be in full control of our biological systems. If a person is about to die: no problem! just transfer the information in that person's brain to a blank template and continue living.

That may be possible some day, but it is going to take a lot longer than a few decades. You and I will not see it in our lifetimes. We will see improvements, but not as drastic as you are describing in that time period. Not only will it take a while for the science to be perfected, but then you also need to consider all of the moral conflicts and government legislation necessary.

It is going to take a really long time to master such technology, if it is even possible. Unlike what popular science fiction wants you to believe, the brain does not function electronically, it is a series of chemical reaction. So we need to not only map out the brain, but all the chemical reactions that go on that make up thought and memories.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I have been trying to invent the Enertron for years now, but I am still hungry.

Nice Crono Trigger reference, am I the only one that got it?

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

I think that's part of the argument. But to contradict that idea, we're living longer ever year and surveys are saying we believe we can function on less sleep than generations before us. Average amount of sleep someone got before electricity was 10hrs a night. That's awesome.

Fixed. I could easily sleep 9-10 hours every day, and I feel great when I do. The brain requires a fixed amount of time to sort/discard all the information it's received during the day. Not allowing it to complete this task results in degraded functionality and/or hallucinations (in extreme deprivation).

Its nuts because the average time now a days is something like 7 horus. That's a big change in the last 100 years. Man if I could sleep 10 hours a day (I could, I just like staying up late too much) then I'd be a machine neffing on ATOT.

Fixed.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Originally posted by: NuroMancer
Why, evolution is cause and effect, so what is the stimulus for evolution phasing out sleep?

Progress at a faster pace.

at the price of longevity. You would wear out at a much faster rate.

I think that's part of the argument. But to contradict that idea, we're living longer ever year and surveys are saying we believe we can function on less sleep than generations before us. Average amount of sleep someone got before electricity was 10hrs a night. That's nuts.

Nutrition + medical advances + hygiene plays a big part in the extension of lifespan. Sleeping for 8hr instead of 10 is very different from not sleeping completely.

 

[funkymatt]

Originally posted by: Arcadio
Never mind evolution. In a few decades, our technological advances will be so great, that we will be able to modify our own bodies to fit whatever needs are necessary. We will be in full control of our biological systems. If a person is about to die: no problem! just transfer the information in that person's brain to a blank template and continue living.

this raises huge ethical questions. didn't terri shivo teach you anything?

 

[funkymatt]

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Originally posted by: Arcadio

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Arcadio
Never mind evolution. In a few decades, our technological advances will be so great, that we will be able to modify our own bodies to fit whatever needs are necessary. We will be in full control of our biological systems. If a person is about to die: no problem! just transfer the information in that person's brain to a blank template and continue living.

That may be possible some day, but it is going to take a lot longer than a few decades. You and I will not see it in our lifetimes. We will see improvements, but not as drastic as you are describing in that time period. Not only will it take a while for the science to be perfected, but then you also need to consider all of the moral conflicts and government legislation necessary.

You're forgetting about the exponential rise of technological advancements that is presently occurring. The mistake that most people make is that they think technological progress will always advance at the current rate, when in reality the rate of technological advancement is also increasing. In other words, the more progress we make, the faster we will be able to achieve new progress. So right now, with current technology, we are experiencing many tech advances. But those same tech advances will develop even more tech advances, faster than before. And those new tech advances will develop even more tech advances, even faster than before..

Really? Because many futurists believe we are heading for a technology progress plateau due to our reliance of the silicon chip and our inability to increase the amount of transistors it can hold. Some not only believe that we're heading for a plateau but actually a steady decline in progress within humanity as a whole because of this. I'll look for a relative link for citation.

This is the first time I've legitimately acknowledged your presence on this forum, Arcadio. Even though its a tangent off the main topic. Don't let me down, son.

These same futurists have been saying the same thing for years, even though there are technological breakthroughs that constantly enable the preservation of Moore's law.

 

[ISAslot]

We sleep because there is still not a compelling reason to evolve a different solution. Our current behavior in how we sleep may eventually change how we sleep in the future.

For example, dolphins must stay awake so they don't drown. So they sleep one side of the brain at a time.

 

[mcveigh]

<- sleep tech

you need to sleep to live and regulate your body.
you don't sleep...you die.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
If we were able to eliminate sleep - wouldn't it have been facilitated via evolution?

It wouldn't make sense to, even for evolution. Don't forget, without industrialization, we'd still be dependent on sunlight. We'd need a 2nd set of nocturnal eyes or something. Plus, our ability to convert short term memories to long term memories and improve our problem solving abilities is part of the sleeping process.

 

[Gothgar]

smoke weed much?