Electricity question

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Eli
Oh boy .................

Well, no.. because you are not completing the circuit. With 40+ posts, I'd hope that at least has already been covered..

Look at it this way, the electrons are trying to get back to the battery.

If you have a wire connected to the + side.. the electrons are going to start marching through the wire... they'll encounter your voltmeter... continue through it, and into the neutral wall wire.

Now, where are they going to go? Keep marching off into oblivion, traversing millions of miles of copper wire? Back to the power station?

In reality, they never started marching in the first place, since there was no circuit. But you get the idea.

But a voltmeter is supposed to be INFINITELY resistive, the electrons wouldn't be able to move through it anyway, so you don't need a completed circuit to measure potential.

NO

 

[Heisenberg]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Eli
Oh boy .................

Well, no.. because you are not completing the circuit. With 40+ posts, I'd hope that at least has already been covered..

Look at it this way, the electrons are trying to get back to the battery.

If you have a wire connected to the + side.. the electrons are going to start marching through the wire... they'll encounter your voltmeter... continue through it, and into the neutral wall wire.

Now, where are they going to go? Keep marching off into oblivion, traversing millions of miles of copper wire? Back to the power station?

In reality, they never started marching in the first place, since there was no circuit. But you get the idea.

But a voltmeter is supposed to be INFINITELY resistive, the electrons wouldn't be able to move through it anyway, so you don't need a completed circuit to measure potential.

As I've tried (and apparently failed) to point out, having a circuit has nothing do with potential itself. The only reason you need a complete circuit is to MEASURE the potential with a DMM.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Jebus, before anyone else posts nonsense about completing a circuit, please read Heisenber's post. If this post makes no sense to you, you really shouldn't be posting advice in this thread.

 

[Pepsi90919]

kirchoff would like to smack you now

 

[no0b]

uhg, run a pspice simulation. With a source thats positive terminal is connected to ground. and its negative terminal is connected to nothing. What do you get, a nasty error message, cause you are an idiot.

 

[Eli]

heh, I should've read the thread first.

So what is the correct answer that you're looking for, since this seems to be a test more than an actual question?

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Heisenberg

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Eli
Oh boy .................

Well, no.. because you are not completing the circuit. With 40+ posts, I'd hope that at least has already been covered..

Look at it this way, the electrons are trying to get back to the battery.

If you have a wire connected to the + side.. the electrons are going to start marching through the wire... they'll encounter your voltmeter... continue through it, and into the neutral wall wire.

Now, where are they going to go? Keep marching off into oblivion, traversing millions of miles of copper wire? Back to the power station?

In reality, they never started marching in the first place, since there was no circuit. But you get the idea.

But a voltmeter is supposed to be INFINITELY resistive, the electrons wouldn't be able to move through it anyway, so you don't need a completed circuit to measure potential.

As I've tried (and apparently failed) to point out, having a circuit has nothing do with potential itself. The only reason you need a complete circuit is to MEASURE the potential with a DMM.

That's exactly what I'm trying to get out, theoretically, there is potential difference between the battery and the ground, but you can't measure it. No? I know someone said it was 1.5 relative to the battery's neutral side but... shouldn't that be 0 as well?

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Jebus, before anyone else posts nonsense about completing a circuit, please read Heisenber's post. If this post makes no sense to you, you really shouldn't be posting advice in this thread.

That would have been a good post about 30 posts ago.

*passes RaynorWolfcastle a :beer:*

Come on man, this is why we're going get paid the big bucks after graduation.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Jebus, before anyone else posts nonsense about completing a circuit, please read Heisenber's post. If this post makes no sense to you, you really shouldn't be posting advice in this thread.

OK Mr. Snobbypants.

What about those of us that would like to learn, and would like to be corrected without being told that you "shouldn't be posting in the first place."?


:frown:

Sheesh. So what is wrong with the "no circuit" answer?

I suppose his question is actually "Why can't we measure the potential voltage without completing the circuit?"?

 

[MrDudeMan]

bahahahah i cant believe how stupid you are OP. seriously...2 circuits classes arent enough? im not even done with my first semester in my freshman year and i could have told you the answer to this :roll: what school do you go to? it must be incredibly lacking if you are almost a junior and had to ask this question.

if a multimeter was (edit - wrong word) infinitely resistive, it wouldnt measure anything. it has to have a discrete resistance to induce current. the loss across a meter is typically ignored because it is so little...for build-it-yourself circuits anyway...

have you not taken chemistry? dont know about the states of the electrons and the bands of energy?

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Jebus, before anyone else posts nonsense about completing a circuit, please read Heisenber's post. If this post makes no sense to you, you really shouldn't be posting advice in this thread.

OK Mr. Snobbypants.

What about those of us that would like to learn, and would like to be corrected without being told that you "shouldn't be posting in the first place."?


:frown:

If you don't know the answer, don't act like you do. Or at least preface what you say with "I think this is what happens but I'm not sure:"

When you start your post with:

Originally posted by: Eli
Oh boy .................

Well, no.. because you are not completing the circuit. With 40+ posts, I'd hope that at least has already been covered..

...followed with a completely incorrect answer, you're the one who looks stupid.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
bahahahah i cant believe how stupid you are OP. seriously...2 circuits classes arent enough? im not even done with my first semester in my freshman year and i could have told you the answer to this :roll: what school do you go to? it must be incredibly lacking if you are almost a junior and had to ask this question.

if a multimeter was perfectly resistive, it wouldnt measure anything. it has to have a discrete resistance to induce current. the loss across a meter is typically ignored because it is so little...for build-it-yourself circuits anyway...

have you not taken chemistry? dont know about the states of the electrons and the bands of energy?

okay you are an asshole and wrong. an ideal voltmeter is infinitely resistive bitch, go look it up.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Heisenberg

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Eli
Oh boy .................

Well, no.. because you are not completing the circuit. With 40+ posts, I'd hope that at least has already been covered..

Look at it this way, the electrons are trying to get back to the battery.

If you have a wire connected to the + side.. the electrons are going to start marching through the wire... they'll encounter your voltmeter... continue through it, and into the neutral wall wire.

Now, where are they going to go? Keep marching off into oblivion, traversing millions of miles of copper wire? Back to the power station?

In reality, they never started marching in the first place, since there was no circuit. But you get the idea.

But a voltmeter is supposed to be INFINITELY resistive, the electrons wouldn't be able to move through it anyway, so you don't need a completed circuit to measure potential.

As I've tried (and apparently failed) to point out, having a circuit has nothing do with potential itself. The only reason you need a complete circuit is to MEASURE the potential with a DMM.

That's exactly what I'm trying to get out, theoretically, there is potential difference between the battery and the ground, but you can't measure it. No? I know someone said it was 1.5 relative to the battery's neutral side but... shouldn't that be 0 as well?

your battery doesn't have a neutral.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
bahahahah i cant believe how stupid you are OP. seriously...2 circuits classes arent enough? im not even done with my first semester in my freshman year and i could have told you the answer to this :roll: what school do you go to? it must be incredibly lacking if you are almost a junior and had to ask this question.

if a multimeter was perfectly resistive, it wouldnt measure anything. it has to have a discrete resistance to induce current. the loss across a meter is typically ignored because it is so little...for build-it-yourself circuits anyway...

have you not taken chemistry? dont know about the states of the electrons and the bands of energy?

okay you are an asshole.

im not too concerned with you calling me names...my point still stands. this is just sad. maybe you should try to learn the answer for yourself instead of having other people spoon feed you the answer. then you might not have to ask such ignorant questions.

Text

have you taken calculus? sure, an "ideal" voltmeter would have "infinite" resistance...

V/I=R. if R is infinity and you have a definite voltage, the current will approach 0 as R approaches infinity, making it read nothing. thats why you dont have infinite resistance (aside from the fact that it is impossible to have infinite resistance).

even if im somewhat wrong, im still not the idiot that asked the OP, and thats what matters here. go take your meds and calm down.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
bahahahah i cant believe how stupid you are OP. seriously...2 circuits classes arent enough? im not even done with my first semester in my freshman year and i could have told you the answer to this :roll: what school do you go to? it must be incredibly lacking if you are almost a junior and had to ask this question.

if a multimeter was perfectly resistive, it wouldnt measure anything. it has to have a discrete resistance to induce current. the loss across a meter is typically ignored because it is so little...for build-it-yourself circuits anyway...

have you not taken chemistry? dont know about the states of the electrons and the bands of energy?

okay you are an asshole.

im not too concerned with you calling me names...my point still stands. this is just sad. maybe you should try to learn the answer for yourself instead of having other people spoon feed you the answer. then you might not have to ask such ignorant questions.

you didn't even know the answer yourself.

 

[element]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: element

Originally posted by: Stealth1024

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
well for one thing you can't read AC and DC at the same time... among lots of other things

the neutral in a wall socket is not AC or DC this has nothing to do with it...

it most certainly is AC when current is flowing through it

Ground is ground, it's 0, it doesn't alternate between +0 and -0.

EDIT: If it didn't stay 0, you couldn't use node-voltage to analyze the circuit...

AC doesn't alternate? now I've heard everything! For god's sakes please tell me you at least know what the A in AC stands for!

AC alternates between 120 and -120, not +0 and -0, whatever that means. You know that just means approaches 0 without actually getting there right? that's pretty much 0 when you're dealing with hundreds of volts. Man you have a lot to learn. And will the numbnuts that haven't a clue try asking questions instead of providing horse crap? k thx.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle
Jebus, before anyone else posts nonsense about completing a circuit, please read Heisenber's post. If this post makes no sense to you, you really shouldn't be posting advice in this thread.

OK Mr. Snobbypants.

What about those of us that would like to learn, and would like to be corrected without being told that you "shouldn't be posting in the first place."?


:frown:

If you don't know the answer, don't act like you do. Or at least preface what you say with "I think this is what happens but I'm not sure:"

When you start your post with:

Originally posted by: Eli
Oh boy .................

Well, no.. because you are not completing the circuit. With 40+ posts, I'd hope that at least has already been covered..

...followed with a completely incorrect answer, you're the one who looks stupid.

I didn't call anybody else stupid or anything..

I read the first post, and tried to explain it like I would to someone that didn't know hardly anything about electricity. I didn't know he had 2 years of EE under his belt. I didn't understand the magnitude of the question.

Pardon me for being wrong. I'll relinquish my electronics knowledge badge to all you hotshots. :roll:

Geez.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: element

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: element

Originally posted by: Stealth1024

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
well for one thing you can't read AC and DC at the same time... among lots of other things

the neutral in a wall socket is not AC or DC this has nothing to do with it...

it most certainly is AC when current is flowing through it

Ground is ground, it's 0, it doesn't alternate between +0 and -0.

EDIT: If it didn't stay 0, you couldn't use node-voltage to analyze the circuit...

AC doesn't alternate? now I've heard everything! For god's sakes please tell me you at least know what the A in AC stands for!

AC alternates between 120 and -120, not +0 and -0, whatever that means. You know that just means approaches 0 without actually getting there right? that's pretty much 0 when you're dealing with hundreds of volts. Man you have a lot to learn. And will the numbnuts that haven't a clue try asking questions instead of providing horse crap? k thx.

AC alternates, relative to a reference point that is 0 volts.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
bahahahah i cant believe how stupid you are OP. seriously...2 circuits classes arent enough? im not even done with my first semester in my freshman year and i could have told you the answer to this :roll: what school do you go to? it must be incredibly lacking if you are almost a junior and had to ask this question.

if a multimeter was perfectly resistive, it wouldnt measure anything. it has to have a discrete resistance to induce current. the loss across a meter is typically ignored because it is so little...for build-it-yourself circuits anyway...

have you not taken chemistry? dont know about the states of the electrons and the bands of energy?

okay you are an asshole.

im not too concerned with you calling me names...my point still stands. this is just sad. maybe you should try to learn the answer for yourself instead of having other people spoon feed you the answer. then you might not have to ask such ignorant questions.

you didn't even know the answer yourself.

uhh can you read? i didnt know the indepth answer like heisenburg, but i knew the general answer. what do you expect? ive taken half of an intro class, and the rest ive learned on my own from reading and building circuits without asking a bunch of people for help. keep trying...but you arent getting any smarter by having people give you answers to easy questions.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: element

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: element

Originally posted by: Stealth1024

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
well for one thing you can't read AC and DC at the same time... among lots of other things

the neutral in a wall socket is not AC or DC this has nothing to do with it...

it most certainly is AC when current is flowing through it

Ground is ground, it's 0, it doesn't alternate between +0 and -0.

EDIT: If it didn't stay 0, you couldn't use node-voltage to analyze the circuit...

AC doesn't alternate? now I've heard everything! For god's sakes please tell me you at least know what the A in AC stands for!

AC alternates between 120 and -120, not +0 and -0, whatever that means. You know that just means approaches 0 without actually getting there right? that's pretty much 0 when you're dealing with hundreds of volts. Man you have a lot to learn. And will the numbnuts that haven't a clue try asking questions instead of providing horse crap? k thx.

AC alternates, relative to a reference point that is 0 volts.

...and?!?!

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: element

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: element

Originally posted by: Stealth1024

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
well for one thing you can't read AC and DC at the same time... among lots of other things

the neutral in a wall socket is not AC or DC this has nothing to do with it...

it most certainly is AC when current is flowing through it

Ground is ground, it's 0, it doesn't alternate between +0 and -0.

EDIT: If it didn't stay 0, you couldn't use node-voltage to analyze the circuit...

AC doesn't alternate? now I've heard everything! For god's sakes please tell me you at least know what the A in AC stands for!

AC alternates between 120 and -120, not +0 and -0, whatever that means. You know that just means approaches 0 without actually getting there right? that's pretty much 0 when you're dealing with hundreds of volts. Man you have a lot to learn. And will the numbnuts that haven't a clue try asking questions instead of providing horse crap? k thx.

Actually, AC alternates between more like 160 and -160, but meh.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

...and?!?!

And what? You're the one saying that the ground is alternating.

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
bahahahah i cant believe how stupid you are OP. seriously...2 circuits classes arent enough? im not even done with my first semester in my freshman year and i could have told you the answer to this :roll: what school do you go to? it must be incredibly lacking if you are almost a junior and had to ask this question.

if a multimeter was perfectly resistive, it wouldnt measure anything. it has to have a discrete resistance to induce current. the loss across a meter is typically ignored because it is so little...for build-it-yourself circuits anyway...

have you not taken chemistry? dont know about the states of the electrons and the bands of energy?

okay you are an asshole.

im not too concerned with you calling me names...my point still stands. this is just sad. maybe you should try to learn the answer for yourself instead of having other people spoon feed you the answer. then you might not have to ask such ignorant questions.

Actually, no, you're full of sh!t too, hotshot.

I could waste my time trying to explain why, but its obvious you're an elitist prick and wouldn't listen anyway. After all, you didn't even read this thread before you went for the post button.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Eli
Actually, AC alternates between more like 160 and -160, but meh.

Depends on what kinda voltage you got coming into the house. 120*sqrt(2). or 240*sqrt(2).

 

[MrDudeMan]

just a side note...AC actually hits +/- 169 volts, but RMS is 120 volts.