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electrician question

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It's all about safety. Having a ground gives errant voltage a path back to the source, rather than through you. - Text

Use a GFCI outlet on those ungrounded circuits. They're only about $5.00, and one outlet can protect at least a couple others it feeds.

Make doubly sure the polarity is correct! Even a simple AC voltage tester can't tell you that. Use a VOM and check voltage to the true ground, like a water pipe, or the neutral/ground bus bar in the fuse/breaker box.
 
Yes because I find the two prong ones insufficient to provide support when you need to hold on to the cords so you don't fall down. Two prong plugs fly out of the socket and smack you right in the damn kisser.
 
While you're peeking in, could you point out to shltferbrains how he contradicted himself by saying that the OP is due for an appearance on CNN, then in the next breath, mentioned how absurdly "simple" it is?

BTW, when are you going to fix the polarity of your outlets?
 
Originally posted by: Ornery
While you're peeking in, could you point out to shltferbrains how he contradicted himself by saying that the OP is due for an appearance on CNN, then in the next breath, mentioned how absurdly "simple" it is?

BTW, when are you going to fix the polarity of your outlets?

Like I said before ornery, it is a rental and no matter how simple it is <I agree with you🙂>, I would not advise him doing anything. The landlord should step up on that one🙂
 
Originally posted by: DarkManX
im moving in a house thats about 50 years old and most of the electric outlets are only 2 prongs, should i worry about about upgrading it to new 3 prong wires with ground?

NO! It will do nothing for resale and it's not a fire risk.

But if you want, add additional 3 prong outlets. Replacing all the wiring is costly.

The only exception is if you do it on your own over time on your own.
 
All he would have to do, is swap the connections at the outlet. If he notifies the landlord, he'll probably be required to hire an electrician at GREAT expense, and might be reluctant to do so. At this point, the housing of the devices plugged into some Eli's outlets are actually HOT! That's insane!
 
Originally posted by: Ornery
While you're peeking in, could you point out to shltferbrains how he contradicted himself by saying that the OP is due for an appearance on CNN, then in the next breath, mentioned how absurdly "simple" it is?

BTW, when are you going to fix the polarity of your outlets?

It's is extremely simple, perhaps a bit time consuming.

However, I also find setting up servers and networks, installing various mechanical and electrical components in boats, trucks, and cars, cooking, sewing, plumbing, masonry, roofing...simple also. It's not something you can just do though, experience goes a long way...being able to read a plan and perform it go a long way...

Doesn't mean people don't prove me wrong by screwing a project up...

If someone does not know electricity, nor has done projects involving tools before....rewiring a house is a good way to show us all that to some the simple is not so.

That said, a well prepared person should have no trouble with it. However, when you are going into walls and outlets and junction boxes, there are alot more skills usually needed than basic electrical.
 
I'm with Ornery on this. Home wiring can be done by a homeowner as long as someone spends the necessary time to educate themself.

When in doubt ask questions, first.

A invaluable place for me has been the newsgroup alt.home.repair
 
OK Alkem, I agree with that. If he's willing to learn a little bit with a healthy dose of research, use caution, and roll up his sleeves, he can make his home a helluva lot safer, increase its value, and save himself a ton of money!
 
Originally posted by: Ornery
OK Alkem, I agree with that. If he's willing to learn a little bit with a healthy dose of research, use caution, and roll up his sleeves, he can make his home a helluva lot safer, increase its value, and save himself a ton of money!

I will say dealing with 50 year old electrical components around is not safe to begin with either.

Whatever you do, buy or make an electric tester. Test the tester first and then cut the main to the house, pull the fuses, etc, whatever it takes....test every point of power to verify the juice is off. In any type of job like this you want to make sure your switch stopped all flow and that some previous owner didn't run a cable to Ol' Man Johnson next door.

Squisher is exactly right too on his line....ALWAYS ASK IF THERE ARE ANY DOUBTS AT ALL. Post here, post anywhere, call your local electrical supplier....they are usually or have an ex-electrician working there and ready to give free advice (if you buy their stuff especially).....

If you are a homeowner and not doing their own repairs most of the time you are throwing away a lot of equity...not to mention learning something you can tinker with in your retirement.

If you have more money than God and like to couch it....carry on 😉
 
Look at all this healthy discussion. 😉

Oh, I wouldn't have any problem with checking all the wires at the outlets. I'm comfortable around electricity and such. It would just be time consuming... one of those things you don't get around to for a while. 😉

Yes, we do rent.. but it's not my style to go crying to the landlord, unless there is really something very wrong. The electrical problem may be a nuisance, but I'm pretty sure he's well aware of it.

The genius installed a 3-prong outlet into the kitchen, just for the fridge. They ran a wire from the neutral bus to the 3rd prong. I'd imagine that a tenant kept complaining of getting shocked when touching the fridge.

Anyway....

Somehow, I think the problem may run a little deeper than reversed wires at the outlets....

But it would be an interesting project. I'll probably do it sometime, if we don't move or anything.
 
Seriously Eli, no matter how the wires are scrambled in the breaker box, the thing that matters is how it's wired at the outlet. Running that ground back to the box from the fridge doesn't mean squat if the polarity is backward. The entire chassis of the refrigerator could be hot! Go ahead and check for voltage from that cabinet to a cold water line. If you have any reading, you've GOT to fix it! You don't even have to install a GFCI, just get the connections correct. We're only talking 10 minutes of work here!
 
Originally posted by: Ornery
Seriously Eli, no matter how the wires are scrambled in the breaker box, the thing that matters is how it's wired at the outlet. Running that ground back to the box from the fridge doesn't mean squat if the polarity is backward. The entire chassis of the refrigerator could be hot! Go ahead and check for voltage from that cabinet to a cold water line. If you have any reading, you've GOT to fix it! You don't even have to install a GFCI, just get the connections correct. We're only talking 10 minutes of work here!

What about the dryer? How does that work since it's 220V? Can the leads be reversed? 😕

I get 120V between the dryer and a water pipe.

But that's just the meter reading. If I put myself into the circuit, it drops to the normal 10-20V.. the "leak" must only be able to support very low current, but I do understand that if it got worse suddenly, something bad could happen.

Text

Text
 
Have a proper, heavy gage ground on that dryer and it should be OK. If 120V is going to the chassis, the breaker will trip. God, that's scary!
 
First, given the relatively high percentage of people in this forum who work on their own computers, (and correct me if I'm wrong) but I thought that in addition to providing additional safety from electrocution, the ground ALSO acts to safely dissipate static electricity to minimize the risk of damage to sensitive electronic components.

Like a couple have suggested, spend some time to learn to do it yourself. For rewiring a house, probably 95% of the work is in running the wires; 5% doing the actual connections.

If you have a fusebox, unless you're very handy, I'd suggest having an electrician put in a new breaker box - but you jump the circuits to the new box. Personally, I'd put in the breaker box myself. But, since one of my demonstrations on types of circuits (parallel vs. series) in my physics class is the electrocution/cooking of hotdogs with bare live wires, I'm probably a little more comfortable (but cautious) around electricity than most people.

Things to know:
*ALL electrical connections occur in a box; never 2 wires taped together somewhere in the wall like they sometimes did in the old days.

*Know how many outlets are allowed on a circuit; and it differs (I believe) depending on the type of wire, whether it be 12/2 or 14/2 (with ground). Given the minimal difference in price between the two, I see know reason to even touch the 14/2. Be aware of what code says as to the minimum number of circuits per type of room (kitchen is 3 IIRC)

Summary of what you need to learn:
black connects to black (usually, except in some specific circumstances such as when running a wire to a switch, in which case the white wire is supposed to be marked black by wrapping it with electrical tape; you'll see this in any how-to)

white connects to white

bare copper connects to bare copper and metal boxes

2 types of circuits for switches

how to connect an outlet (correct polarity)

possibly a 3-way switch circuit (there are a couple of ways; this also involves a different type of wire: 14/3 with ground or 12/3 with ground. Since this is generally for lighting, this is usually the only place I skimp and purchase a small roll of 14/3.

how to connect the wires in the breaker box - this is extremely easy, but it's especially important, as it is with all screwed down connections, to be sure you're tightening the screw down enough. Keep it neat and organized in the breaker box and throw the main breaker before working in there. Also, wrap your wire round the screw clockwise so that tightening the screw draws the wire in rather than pushes it out to the sides. Learn to bend the wire into a question mark with needle nosed pliers, and learn the proper length to strip off.

A 220V circuit. (piece of cake, but you'll need heavier wiring; either 10/3 or 8/3 depending on the Amps and length.)

Total cost for do it yourself - replacing all wiring, switches and outlets - anywhere from $100 to $400, depending on the amount of wires and the "quality" of the switches and wallplates; i.e. do you want basic switches (<50 cents each) or quiet switches, slider switches, dimmer switches, etc., which can run anywhere from a couple bucks on up. Plain old wallplates (25 cents or so) or solid brass or oak wall plates?

For a 200Amp breaker box with breakers, I saw on the billboard of an electrical supply place near me the other day: $139.
A 250 foot roll of 12/2 with ground seems to fluctuate in price a bit, but is generally under $40, sometimes as cheap is $30. You'll need anywhere from 2 rolls to 5 rolls, depending on the layout of your home, total number of circuits, etc. If your kitchen and laundry room are right above the breaker box, then you save; the separate circuit you run for each larger appliance such as the dishwasher will use less wire. But, if the kitchen is 40 feet away, then that's going to run an extra box of wire by itself.

Cost for an electrician will vary widely, depending on where you live; but I'd bet at a minimum it would still be well over $1000 dollars. So, save yourself hundreds of dollars and learn to do it yourself. At the very worst, you could leave all of your outlets uncovered after doing a room or two and have an electrician or electrical inspector come in to check them.

Don't forget the $2 electrical tester that you touch to the wires and the little bulb lights up. Even when you know the circuit you're working on is dead, check those wires anyway! You'd be amazed at some of the things that can be done, such as 2 separate circuits being run to one outlet. You plug something into the outlet, trip the breaker causing it to go off, pull out the outlet and zappppp! The second wire isn't running out of the outlet to another outlet somewhere else; it could actually be a second circuit coming in, that is, the top plug and the bottom plug don't *have* to be on the same circuit; there's a little metal piece that can sometimes be snapped off to put them on separate circuits. (often was done in bedrooms so the top plug is controlled by a switch and the bottom plug is always live.) Of course, that's kinda assinine and I doubt up to today's code; but after 50 years of previous owners and who knows what rewiring, you never know.

There are all sorts of codes you should probably know if you have anal retentive inspectors in your area who could hassle you when you attempt to resell the home years from now. Things like how far apart the staples are supposed to be when holding down your romex cable. God forbid you just staple wherever the wire seems it needs one, end up with 2 that are 25 inches apart and wind up with an inspector saying "This is baaaaddddd. These staples are 25 inches apart. They're not allowed to be more than 24 inches apart."

Above all else, tight connections. Loose connections lead to resistance leads to heat.

Oh, and rip out the old wiring as you go. There's nothing more frustrating (or scary) than to be staring at bare wires in walls (during remodeling) or dangling from a basement ceiling and have to wonder, "are those live??"
 
YES

You need the ground wire for your COMPUTER equipment to be properly grounded. no ground = nowhere for static buildup to go = bad.

furthermore, any pro audio equipment you may use will hum like a muthafvcka without a proper ground. guitar amps can actually be dangerous without a ground... they make YOU the ground! i've been at the bad end of improperly grounded amps before. you think you're cool, until you step up to a microphone... then ZAP your mouth is numb and your lip is starting to swell already.

and by the way, i have added grounds to specific outlets at multiple homes i've lived in, and i've never killed myself, and they've always worked properly. it doesn't take rocket science, you just TURN OFF THE POWER (duh), get some decent wire, a pipe that heads into the ground (like a nearby hose outlet or something), and a bracket for it. if you've got cable TV, it's already grounded somewhere anyway. you can just hook up to that.

edit: oh yeah, buy a decent outlet tester before you touch anything. make sure the polarity is right, test your ground after you install it, etc.
 
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