Electrical connections/ experts I need help with a plug

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
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I am probably going to lose power in the ice storm soon. I have a 10 gauge 3 wire cord I am trying to connect to a 4 prong twist lock connector

this one

Since I only have 3 wires do I need to add a jumper? The other end will be connected to a 3 prong dryer plug.

I am thinking I need to connect the green to the long prong, the white and black to the same shape/size prongs. What do I do for the forth though? I assume that forth prong is a nuetral, should it be jumpered to one of the hots?

Looking at the plug on amazon

9 oclock is a prong that is slightly longer than the others
12 and 6 oclock are both the same shape/length
3 oclock is a narrow prong (nuetral??)

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks
 

OrganizedChaos

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2002
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Please tell me your not planning on plugging your generator into a household outlet without a transfer switch.
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
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Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
try it again


ok got the link to work. From what I am reading that would require a 4 wire cord.

Ok looking closer at the twist lock the terminals are labeled

y-g-x-w
 
Nov 5, 2001
18,366
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Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
try it again


ok got the link to work. From what I am reading that would require a 4 wire cord.

Ok looking closer at the twist lock the terminals are labeled

y-g-x-w

you need 10-3 plus ground
 

futuristicmonkey

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2004
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Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
Please tell me your not planning on plugging your generator into a household outlet without a transfer switch.

Indeed!

If you do this wrong you could end up killing a lineman when he attempts work on your downed power line -- get someone who knows what they're doing to do this for you!
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,673
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I know about positive, negative, and ground... What's the fourth prong for?? And what's a transfer switch?
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
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Would turning off the main not prevent backfeed? I guess I assume that if no power could come in that no power could go out?
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
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Originally posted by: bctbct
Would turning off the main not prevent feedback? I guess I assume that if no power could come in that no power could go out?
Yes it would.
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
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Originally posted by: boomerang
Originally posted by: bctbct
Would turning off the main not prevent feedback? I guess I assume that if no power could come in that no power could go out?
Yes it would.

Through the line nuetral?
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
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Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: boomerang
Originally posted by: bctbct
Would turning off the main not prevent feedback? I guess I assume that if no power could come in that no power could go out?
Yes it would.

Through the line nuetral?
No, I see how you could misunderstand my reply. Disconnecting the main breaker will prevent feedback. You should know that if crews are working in your area, that they will make you shut the generator off. They won't take no for an answer.
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
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thanks boomer

I found this on the CDC website

Electrical Safety and Generators
Preventing Electrocutions Associated with Portable Generators Plugged Into Household Circuits

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When power lines are down, residents can restore energy to their homes or other structures by using another power source such as a portable generator. If water has been present anywhere near electrical circuits and electrical equipment, turn off the power at the main breaker or fuse on the service panel. Do not turn the power back on until electrical equipment has been inspected by a qualified electrician.

If it is necessary to use a portable generator, manufacturer recommendations and specifications must be strictly followed. If there are any questions regarding the operation or installation of the portable generator, a qualified electrician should be immediately contacted to assist in installation and start-up activities. The generator should always be positioned outside the structure.

When using gasoline- and diesel-powered portable generators to supply power to a building, switch the main breaker or fuse on the service panel to the "off" position prior to starting the generator. This will prevent power lines from being inadvertently energized by backfeed electrical energy from the generators, and help protect utility line workers or other repair workers or people in neighboring buildings from possible electrocution. If the generator is plugged into a household circuit without turning the main breaker to the ?off? position or removing the main fuse, the electrical current could reverse, go back through the circuit to the outside power grid, and energize power lines or electrical systems in other buildings to at or near their original voltage without the knowledge of utility or other workers.

 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
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I have a ten circuit transfer switch here. Yes, they are expensive.

I have a receptacle on the outside of the house. I run a cord with the appropriate connectors from the generator to that receptacle.

There is a pigtail inside the house that I then plug into the transfer switch. (I could just leave it plugged in all the time, but it is kind of in the traffic pattern in the basement.)

The circuits are controlled by the breakers. There are three positions. Line, Gen and Off. I switch them from Line to Gen and the generator is powering the circuits I have hooked up to it. The remaining circuits in the household breaker panel are still powered from the outside world. It comes in handy as I turn on lights that are not powered by the generator. When they come on, I know that power has been restored.

More to come.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
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If you feel comfortable working inside your breaker panel, you can hook up a transfer switch yourself. The wiring is actually very simple.

I understand you don't want to go to those lengths right now. That you're concerned about losing your power right now because of the ice storm.

When I got my first generator, (which was way underpowered) I was not going to go with a transfer switch. During that time frame I was having an alarm system installed. The owner of the alarm company and I were talking and he was telling me about some friends that had a house fire.

The first thing the insurance company did was send out an investigator. They found remnants of a home-brewed generator install. Although the generator was not running at the time of the fire. They contributed the fire to the wiring for it, and denied his claim. I don't know how it finally turned out in the end.

This really got me thinking and I went ahead with the transfer switch.
 

Doodoo

Golden Member
Feb 14, 2000
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Originally posted by: boomerang
If you feel comfortable working inside your breaker panel, you can hook up a transfer switch yourself. The wiring is actually very simple.

I understand you don't want to go to those lengths right now. That you're concerned about losing your power right now because of the ice storm.

When I got my first generator, (which was way underpowered) I was not going to go with a transfer switch. During that time frame I was having an alarm system installed. The owner of the alarm company and I were talking and he was telling me about some friends that had a house fire.

The first thing the insurance company did was send out an investigator. They found remnants of a home-brewed generator install. Although the generator was not running at the time of the fire. They contributed the fire to the wiring for it, and denied his claim. I don't know how it finally turned out in the end.

This really got me thinking and I went ahead with the transfer switch.

My dad is looking for a generator for xmas...what size do you recommend getting?
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
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boomer, that sounds like the way to go. I finally decided it was time to buy the generator and hadnt thought about a transfer switch since it was going to be used only in emergencies. It would be easy and pretty inexpensive to add the switch and receptcle, let alone much more convient.

You cant just connect the transfer switch to the 220 outlets and then just use select electrical items to prevent going over the wattage?

Well it sounds like this project is dead in the water since I dont have the right cord. I guess I will have to use a space heater, was sure hoping to keep the furnace going. Thanks for the info.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
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Originally posted by: Doodoo
Originally posted by: boomerang
If you feel comfortable working inside your breaker panel, you can hook up a transfer switch yourself. The wiring is actually very simple.

I understand you don't want to go to those lengths right now. That you're concerned about losing your power right now because of the ice storm.

When I got my first generator, (which was way underpowered) I was not going to go with a transfer switch. During that time frame I was having an alarm system installed. The owner of the alarm company and I were talking and he was telling me about some friends that had a house fire.

The first thing the insurance company did was send out an investigator. They found remnants of a home-brewed generator install. Although the generator was not running at the time of the fire. They contributed the fire to the wiring for it, and denied his claim. I don't know how it finally turned out in the end.

This really got me thinking and I went ahead with the transfer switch.

My dad is looking for a generator for xmas...what size do you recommend getting?
Let me preface this by saying that I'm far from any form of expert on this stuff. We have frequent power outages. I got tired of it, got a generator and a transfer switch.

I started out with a 4500W generator. I was running the furnace (not AC), the refrigerator, some lighting circuits and the pump from my well. The pump was what was taxing the generator, especially when the furnace was on. When it would kick on, the generator was really working hard to keep up. The well pump runs off 240V. Also, I went cheap, and the unit I had was EXTREMELY loud. It's running outside, which kind of deadens the noise, but it gets really annoying after a short time. We're all on acreage out here, but I'm sure the neighbors didn't appreciate it either.

I replaced the first generator with a 7000W unit. It handles everything with no problem whatsoever. I couldn't justify the expense of a Honda or Kawasaki, and got a Coleman Powermate with a B&S Vanguard engine. Compared to the first one it's quiet. Compared to a Honda or Kawasaki it's noisy. But they cost more than I wanted to spend. I should say I've had the 7000W for about 8 or 9 years.

When I bumped up to the 7000W, I also went from a 6 circuit transfer switch to a 10 circuit. The well pump uses two which leaves 8. After the furnace and the fridge, I have 6 circuits left for lighting. I can surf and watch TV when the power is out. No stove or microwave, but you can hook up what you want. Generalized wattage requirements are easy to find online. Size the generator to what you want to run.

My mother has a natural gas powered stand-by generator. I was there when the electrician finished the install. We turned on everything in the condo, and I mean everything. Stove, washer, dryer, central AC, everything and her 12000W unit was not even breaking a sweat.

Stand-by is truly the way to go.

Edit: One last thought. Start up current is what gets you. It takes a lot of current to get a motor started but relatively little to keep it running. (Pump, furnace blower, refrigerator compressor motor) You have to take this into account when sizing a generator. You needs lots of overhead built in.
 

Sluggo

Lifer
Jun 12, 2000
15,488
5
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Originally posted by: boomerang
My mother has a natural gas powered stand-by generator. I was there when the electrician finished the install. We turned on everything in the condo, and I mean everything. Stove, washer, dryer, central AC, everything and her 12000W unit was not even breaking a sweat.

Stand-by is truly the way to go.

After just finishing 36 hours without running water or electricity, this is the option I will be looking into.

We had a gas fireplace for heat, but it was only 1 room.
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
I've always wondered about the backfeed issue. In a perfect scenario it would definitely get ugly if 240VAC from the genny passed up to the distribution transformers and was raised to 7.5kV or higher. Since many homes are sharing the pole pig wouldn't the primaries just feed into neighboring homes? This would create an overload on the genny OR if it were powerful enough trip the main CB at the service entrance.

Of course it's cardinal rule to ALWAYS disconnect from the grid before firing up that genny!
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,825
5,995
146
I set up a poor-mans disconnect system for our community wellhouse. The system has a submersible pump and a pressure pump. I arranged it so that the devices plug in with a cord, and there is also a socket on the wall from the generator.
I store the generator in the wellhouse, and roll it out and plug in a pigtail when the power is out. Never do the two systems connect.
 

Thegonagle

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2000
9,773
0
71
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: boomerang
Originally posted by: bctbct
Would turning off the main not prevent feedback? I guess I assume that if no power could come in that no power could go out?
Yes it would.

Through the line nuetral?

Nope! The main breaker only cuts off the two hot wires, not the neutral bus bar.

Please don't do it.

I don't know all the reasons--I'm no expert--but it just intuitively sounds wrong.
 

OrganizedChaos

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2002
4,524
0
0
Originally posted by: Rubycon
I've always wondered about the backfeed issue. In a perfect scenario it would definitely get ugly if 240VAC from the genny passed up to the distribution transformers and was raised to 7.5kV or higher. Since many homes are sharing the pole pig wouldn't the primaries just feed into neighboring homes? This would create an overload on the genny OR if it were powerful enough trip the main CB at the service entrance.

Of course it's cardinal rule to ALWAYS disconnect from the grid before firing up that genny!

if people are stupid enough to connect there generators straight to the grid there probably stupid enough to force the breakers closed

backfeeds kill people