Electric Vehicle tipping point soon?

[tweakmonkey]

So if you have a wife and therefore two cars, and one of the cars is electric and you drive it to work every single day plus most weekends you both drive the ev, and it saves you money, it's a toy? Cause that's confusing to me. I'm in this situation and it's clearly for utility.

 

[heymrdj]

So if you have a wife and therefore two cars, and one of the cars is electric and you drive it to work every single day plus most weekends you both drive the ev, and it saves you money, it's a toy? Cause that's confusing to me. I'm in this situation and it's clearly for utility.

If you live your life in a 20 mile box, sure it’s utility. Both my cars can be exchanged for any purpose. We can both take kids. We can both travel the 5 mile commute, or the multi hundred mile commute, like I did just yesterday, and the day before that, and three times last week. Both have a hitch for the bike rack and both are enclosed cabins. Both do well in winter and both don’t need any coverings, or garages, to function in our weather. Wife was even able to sit for 20 minutes yesterday while it was 91 degrees with A/C on blast to hold a private conference call between stops.


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[mdram]

with a 110 mile a day travel, and min 10 miles to the nearest store(25-30 for anything substantial) 76 miles is useless.
remember rural folk travel more distance than citty dwellers

 

[K1052]

with a 110 mile a day travel, and min 10 miles to the nearest store(25-30 for anything substantial) 76 miles is useless.
remember rural folk travel more distance than citty dwellers

Over 80% of the US population lives in non-rural areas.

 

[tweakmonkey]

Just FYI you guys are not the norm. It might be useless for you but most people don't commute 110 miles and need room for 5 people and bike racks plus -20 weather. So this car is "useless" for you, but not a toy or useless for the average driver.

 

[heymrdj]

Just FYI you guys are not the norm. It might be useless for you but most people don't commute 110 miles and need room for 5 people and bike racks plus -20 weather. So this car is "useless" for you, but not a toy or useless for the average driver.

So most Americans live no where where it goes below freezing. Like all of NYC is 32 degrees, and Madison, and holy shit my mind is blown by all these major urban centers that never reach freezing. I also didn’t know that a majority of couples don’t have even a singular kid necessitating a back seat. I can certainly believe that most people don’t bike or get any exercise lol!


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[tweakmonkey]

Why do everyone have to drive somewhere to ride a bike? And what does this have to do with exercise? I go to kickboxing class twice a week and the gym for weights a couple times... those gyms are full of people. I think many people get exercise but don't transport their bikes places.

Also, the Focus has back seats, which was the car that's "useless", so I'm not sure why you'd disqualify that, I'm just saying there are lots of people without kids.

Also, you said NEGATIVE 20 DEGREES. 32 is not negative 20. Also, who said I live within a 20 mile box? I said a 70 mile round trip most days (and here, there are a dozen cities, millions of people, and 10,000 restaurants in that space), 100s of mountain biking trails, hiking, the ocean, beaches, redwoods... Plus, I'm talking about multiple car households, that have the second car capable of all of this. These people don't need an extra 300 miles of range for Monday through Friday. They have consistent, predictable jobs. I usually stay within that 35 mile radius because there's so much to do here within that space, more than I'd ever see in my life. If I wanted to go 70 mile radius, I could charge an eV at the halfway point. Or I could take the other car...

Many people live in similar places, that don't require 300 mile road trips to find something cool. That doesn't make the second car in their household useless. The chances of me and my S/O both needing to go opposite directions, apart, and 70+ miles each is almost zero here. My comments were about two+ car households. I think even a Focus EV would be a great second car for those people. And a Bolt or Tesla etc. would be incredible.

 

[heymrdj]

Why do you have to drive somewhere to ride a bike? I hop on mine and ride right out into my neighborhood. And what does this have to do with exercise? I go to kickboxing class twice a week and the gym for weights a couple times... If I wanted to go mountain biking, there are plenty of trails in range of even my smart car.

Also, the Focus has back seats, which was the car that's "useless", so I'm not sure why you'd disqualify that, I'm just saying there are lots of people without kids.

Also, you said NEGATIVE 20 DEGREES. 32 is not negative 20. Also, who said I live within a 20 mile box? I said a 70 mile round trip most days (and here, there are a dozen cities, millions of people, and 10,000 restaurants in that space), 100s of mountain biking trails, hiking, the ocean, beaches, redwoods... Plus, I'm talking about multiple car households, that have the second car capable of all of this. These people don't need an extra 300 miles of range for Monday through Friday. They have consistent, predictable jobs. I usually stay within that 35 mile radius because there's so much to do here within that space, more than I'd ever see in my life. If I wanted to go 70 mile radius, I could charge an eV at the halfway point. Or I could take the other car...

Many people live in similar places, that don't require 300 mile road trips to find something cool. That doesn't make the second car in their household useless. The chances of me and my S/O both needing to go opposite directions, apart, and 70+ miles each is almost zero here. My comments were about two+ car households.

You said 5 people, most cars that hold 4 people hold 5, so I figured you didn’t want a backseat in there either.

Enjoy your gym, I’m part of an avid outdoor community. It has to be a blizzard before I’ll choose to exercise indoors. The hundreds of others in the group feel the same way. Whatever makes you feel good.

Below freezing is below freezing, it all requires defrost and de-icing to safely drive.

And thanks for confirming that you do everything inside of a box size area. Again a large chunk of America doesn’t.

Not sure why it’s brought it that the naysayers use impossible to meet requirements. Obviously this specimen here is fine painting every person into a box. We all live in condos with covered garages that the landlords have awesomely permitted and supplied power for charging stations, or suburbia with a white picket fence. But not like far away suburbia where it’s a 45 minute stop and go commute, just that picture perfect no traffic kind.




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[mdram]

So most Americans live no where where it goes below freezing. Like all of NYC is 32 degrees, and Madison, and holy shit my mind is blown by all these major urban centers that never reach freezing. I also didn’t know that a majority of couples don’t have even a singular kid necessitating a back seat. I can certainly believe that most people don’t bike or get any exercise lol!


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lets add that in may urban centers you park on the street and cant put a charger.

 

[tweakmonkey]

And thanks for confirming that you do everything inside of a box size area

I flew to Rhode Island and spent 5 days there for a wedding last week, I flew to Costa Rica and spent 2 weeks there in July. I flew to Washington in December and spent a week there. I flew to Iceland and Amsterdam last year. I don't see how another gas car would've helped me get more out of my box. For Monday through Friday, yes I'm in that box. But I have a full time job.

 

[heymrdj]

lets add that in may urban centers you park on the street and cant put a charger.

Nope those will be supplied everywhere with no government intervention.


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[tweakmonkey]

heymrdj - I'm not trying to say these vehicles are useful for you.

I am saying that the majority of households (and the tipping point) can occur long before people with your driving requirements are met. EVs are not useless and toys for other people, even if might be for you. Maybe over 50% of households on the west coast will have an EV in 10 years and only 5% will have them where you're at. That's still a massive change from where we are now, and I thought that's what this thread was about. Clearly not everyone can be painted into a box that fits their needs. I'm not telling everyone to take Greyhound. I'm saying there are many cases where an EV, even a 70 mile EV, is better than a gas car. And it's getting better every day with infrastructure and car upgrades.

 

[mdram]

well if people want them, then thats fine
but .gov need to stop wasting tax credits on them

 

[K1052]

well if people want them, then thats fine
but .gov need to stop wasting tax credits on them

I'm good with that when the government stops subsidizing fossil fuels.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I will buy an EV. As soon as I buy a garage to put it in and some solar panels to charge it with.

Dammit. This is getting expensive.

 

[mdram]

I'm good with that when the government stops subsidizing fossil fuels.

im fine with that

 

[MuchTooSexy]

2016 focus and before was the one with the short range. 2017 version is up to 110 miles. you can lease one for around $100 a month with only $2500 down. i've even seen fiat 500e advertised for $50 a month. at those prices, i almost wouldn't be offended to have them be called toys. if i lived out in a rural area and drove something like a f150 as my main vehicle, having an extra toy EV would almost pay for itself in gasoline savings each month.

 

[mdram]

only if it has enough range to be useful to you

110 miles is barely enough to run saturday errands

 

[Accord99]

I'm good with that when the government stops subsidizing fossil fuels.

You'll find it's very small, especially in comparison to the huge revenues that government get from them. It's a big reason why global fossil fuel reserved are mostly owned by state-controlled companies.

 

[Brovane]

So a toy.

I’m curious how well prepare the grid for the 7AM rush. As it is currently when it is 20 below I idle the car to get heat built up. Costs me gas, but I can handle refueling for 5 minutes. I know the Cmax can’t even maintain defrosting on the L2 charger, it still requires batter power on top of the L2 (by about .8KW) so you’re already not 100% just to defrost. Then because of the continued defrost and heat, you get about 11 miles on the pure electric side. Granted this is an affordable 25K hybrid, not a 70K Tesla. But there’s been a lot of talk about charging at night, at least in the winter states, we’ll need full charging capacity and then some just to make the cars driveable throughout the day.


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Do you realize that L2 charging varies by the KW rating of the onboard charger? The C-MAX has a relatively low rated onboard charger at 3.3kw. My Leaf has a 6.6kw onboard charger, baseline Model S onboard charger is 10kw.

 

[heymrdj]

Do you realize that L2 charging varies by the KW rating of the onboard charger? The C-MAX has a relatively low rated onboard charger at 3.3kw. My Leaf has a 6.6kw onboard charger, baseline Model S onboard charger is 10kw.

I do, and the leaf suffers the same issue. I don’t believe the Model S does, but that does not A. Answer the northern grid question or B. Provide an answer to the problem of using the batteries for heat on vehicles that are within the current new vehicle purchasing price.


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[Brovane]

I do, and the leaf suffers the same issue. I don’t believe the Model S does, but that does not A. Answer the northern grid question or B. Provide an answer to the problem of using the batteries for heat on vehicles that are within the current new vehicle purchasing price.


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You are laying out too many variables without enough definition to answer either of your questions.

What specifically is your concern about the Northern grid question in regards to EV's?

What is your definition of a current new vehicle purchasing price, and what specific problem are you asserting about using batteries to heat an EV?

 

[heymrdj]

You are laying out too many variables without enough definition to answer either of your questions.

What specifically is your concern about the Northern grid question in regards to EV's?

What is your definition of a current new vehicle purchasing price, and what specific problem are you asserting about using batteries to heat an EV?

Already explained in the thread.

Average purchase price of a vehicle in America: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/the-average-new-car-purchase-price-is-now-above-34000/

Not losing the already short range to de-ice and defrost the car. A Cmax for example needs 4KW to defrost. This won’t happen at night, this will happen just like traffic jams, between 7-8AM all at once. Does the northern grid have that much power in its current state for the supposed EV tipping point that others are believing is so unrealistically close.

You can use the batteries to help the grid, but then if you’re a Cmax, you have 11 miles of range after warming. But I honestly haven’t looked at it outside of Ford, Chevy, and Nissan. I’ll consider any car under 35K before tax credits or anything like that (strictly MSRP, as it’s the only way to keep comparisons even across the country).


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[heymrdj]

heymrdj - I'm not trying to say these vehicles are useful for you.

I am saying that the majority of households (and the tipping point) can occur long before people with your driving requirements are met. EVs are not useless and toys for other people, even if might be for you. Maybe over 50% of households on the west coast will have an EV in 10 years and only 5% will have them where you're at. That's still a massive change from where we are now, and I thought that's what this thread was about. Clearly not everyone can be painted into a box that fits their needs. I'm not telling everyone to take Greyhound. I'm saying there are many cases where an EV, even a 70 mile EV, is better than a gas car. And it's getting better every day with infrastructure and car upgrades.

The thread is titled is the EV tipping point soon. Not will the west coast have EV. Not will the North East go all diesel. Would that be a lot of electric cars? Yes. Would it be considered a tipping point for American infrastructure? No.

I’m sure you can make a thread though on EV tipping point conjecture for the west coast, however.

I’m not saying EVs aren’t great. I want it to happen, I’d be driving one today if it was viable. But I’m also a realist and I’m staying true to the title of the thread.


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[tweakmonkey]

The title doesn't say anything about American infrastructure. In fact the first location mentioned is Germany. Many European countries are saying they won't even sell gas cars in 20-30 years.

My personal experience will be on the west coast and that's my whole frame for tipping point. Yours is different. Isn't the internet a great place to discuss these things?