Electric problem in the house? Can I solve this with a UPS?

[Siyko]

Hello. I have been troubleshooting odd problems with my PC that until recently, I haven't thought were related.

I've lost two power supplies in the past three years. Just one day they stopped working, and I had to replace them. I chalked it up to bad luck.

When I built my current computer, I opted for a big, 28" 4K LCD monitor. It looks great, but I've noticed a high pitched sound coming from it at times. I messed around with it, and I noticed that when the screen is showing a lot more white, the whine gets louder. I returned the monitor for a replacement of the same type, which has a quieter whine, but still definitely present.

One day, I was browsing the internet, and I noticed that sometimes my power supply would make a 'clicking' or 'purring' sound. It almost sounds like an old HDD trying to copy a large file, but it was very intermittent. I soon noticed that the PSU clicked ONLY when I was either scrolling up or down on a webpage, or when a new page was loading! Very strange, but I figured that the video rendering is drawing more power, and my crappy PSU is just clicking because it's close to death.

Then just a week ago I had the "Aha" moment. I had the same exact problem above, scrolling on a page which makes the PSU click, but I noticed that scrolling ALSO caused the lamp near me to flicker. Now, this lamp flickers all the time when I'm on the computer, so I didn't think much of it. But I soon realized that the lamp is holding steady, and I can spin the scroll wheel and cause the lamp to flicker. It's plugged into a different outlet from my PC, but they go into the same breaker.

So now I'm thinking all of my problems are because the electrics in this house are problematic. It also explains the 'click' when I turn on my home stereo or PC speakers, and why that lamp keeps flickering. I've known that sometimes my lights dim when the washing machine changes cycles, or the AC clicks on, but I never made the connection to my computer problems until this happened.

I thought about getting an electrician in to look at what can be done, but I understand it might be a problem in how the electricity is fed to the house from the town, so it might not even solve the problem. But my friend suggested buying a UPS - not so much for the battery backup, but just to normalize the power coming from the house and provide a consistent feed to the PC.

Is this plausible? If so, what should I look for in a UPS? What should I avoid? Should I get another one for my stereo to solve its loud clicking problem?

Thanks for any help

 

[Paperdoc]

A UPS is not likely to solve this. What you describe is very short-term voltage sags as the load changes on the circuits. This might be related to only a single circuit (breaker) that has a heavy load or possibly a poor connection at some point, or it might be related to the total power supply to your house. In either case, a UPS won't fix those.

By far the most common type of UPS is one which keeps its batteries charged while the power to the load is actually fed directly from the wall. It also monitors that power from the wall. If the power source fails, it then quickly switches to supplying power to the load from its batteries and inverter, which should take less than a second. If it takes too long, the load will experience a substantial loss of power and malfunction. The key part of that is "if the power source fails...." For the UPS's monitoring circuit, a "fail" means the voltage supplied from the wall drops below some critical value for at least a certain number of milliseconds. Most voltage sags such as those you describe do NOT drop that low, and last much less than a second, so the UPS' monitoring circuit would NOT call that a "failure" and do the switch-over.

There are some designs of UPS that work differently. They ALWAYS supply power to the load, and always keep their battery charging going. This design generally will prevent even the modest voltage sags you are experiencing. However, such units typically cost a lot more to buy and to use (they are less energy-efficient) and are used only where NO sags can be tolerated, or where voltage sags are frequent and very large. What you describe may seem frequent, but if your computer is not malfunctioning, freezing and rebooting, they are not very large sags.

 

[Kartajan]

something like this may help.
https://www.amazon.com/APC-LE1200-A...=1473794176&sr=8-8&keywords=power+conditioner

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181 people found this helpful
5.0 out of 5 starsWorth it's weight in electronics...
ByCosmo Krameron January 28, 2008
This thing is heavy, which is usually a good sign for this type of product. It does what even good UPS's don't, and that's regulate your power even when it fluctuates mildly. Sure, many products will protect you from 140V+ or turn on at 90V, but that's still enough to burn out everything from a simple wall wart power brick to a DVR from dishnetwork. I know, as I've experienced such things with my crappy Los Angeles power service. In afternoons, it'll drop to 110V, and if I use the garbage disposal, a laser printer, or turn on my stereo and 2 amplifiers, voltage drops below 108V. This is enough to destroy many sensitive products over time. It's so bad in my house, that it's destroyed two UPS's by forcing them to click on and off so much and to compensate for low voltage so much they burned out!

The APC LE1200 prevents this damage. It clicks on and returns voltage levels back to around 120V at a level high enough that your electronics don't get damage before they are protected (what's the point of protection that only helps once the damage is done?). I know it's working because I can hear it click on, and return power to the right levels even as my house voltage sits at 106-108V (confirmed by the voltage meter in my Panamax).

I'm so impressed with the performance of this unit in my home theater that I bought 2 more, one to protect my computer (it installs between the UPS and the wall to protect the computer and the UPS), and one for my plasma TV (because it's located away from my HT equipment). At $50 a piece, this thing is a no brainer. A quality UPS is 3-5x as much and still doesn't protect your equipment as well. And it can burn out. The LE1200 has little chance of burning out, so for equipment that doesn't need battery backup, or even to feed a UPS, this product is the way to go.

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54 people found this helpful
3.0 out of 5 starsAPC LE1200 Review
ByS. J. Fuquaon April 2, 2009
The overall quality of this voltage regulator is good. The under voltage / over voltage leds are a nice feature. I purchased this devise to provide a stable voltage source to my computer equipment. My original problem before I purchased was my dsl model would drop off due to my line voltage dropping low whenever I started my vacuum cleaner (the starting current of the motor is apparently quite large). Based on the reviews and specs I thought this device would eliminate the problem. Well -- no change. Even with the LE 1200 regulator whenever I start my vacuum in the house the momentary drop in line voltage is not compensated for by the regulator and my modem drops off line.

 

[Siyko]

Paperdoc - thanks for the detailed answer. I assumed a UPS would typically run off battery power while it's charging, because I didn't think it could ever switch over in time, but I guess not. Is there a term for the ones that DO provide this 'normalized' output from the battery? I tried searching, and although I see a variety of prices, I don't see anything that would indicate this.

Kartajan - Thanks for the link. The description says:
"Over 116.5, it will Trim 10% off whatever voltage it is fed.
Below 96.5, it will Boost 20% to whatever voltage it gets.
It does this by changing the tap on the internal transformer."
I wonder if it would be able to do this quick enough to prevent these hiccups? Or if it's not too simple to work with a variety of voltage drops? I'm also curious how much power it consumes when something is plugged in. Time to do some research I suppose, but I have a good place to start.

 

[RLGL]

get an electrician, you may have other issues with the house wiring

 

[bruceb]

Is this an older house ? Odds are you have a serious problem with the wiring inside the walls or a bad receptacle or two. In most cases the electrician runs a feed to one outlet and it then daisy chains to about 4 or 5 others in the same room. A bad connection at any one of them can cause all sorts of issues. Of particular importance is to be sure they are not using the push in terminals. They do get loose now and then. Wires on the screw terminals are best, but someone may not have tightened them properly. Another issue I have seen is a loose Neutral wire when a few of them come together inside a wire nut.

 

[Siyko]

BruceB, I did have two electricians over recently - one to fix an issue with an overloaded circuit, and another to install a central air AC unit.

I'm not an expert in this, so my paraphrasing might be wrong. But they said I have a XX amp breaker, and that is more than enough, so that's not an issue. But the breaker was only designed for so many circuits, and I have a lot more than that. The second electrician said that if I get another major appliance put in, I should consider upgrading the breaker panel, but again that my amperage is fine. He said the lights dimming are probably coming from drops in the electricity being fed to my house, and there's nothing much I can do about that.

The house was built in 1960, and my PC is plugged into a basement outlet. The basement wiring was done in about 2001, so it should be pretty modern. But the lights dimming occurs in several different circuits all throughout the house, so I doubt it's a loose terminal.

 

[bruceb]

It could still be a bad connection either at the meter tray, or the main bus & neutral bus in the panel board. You should also have the power company come out and run some tests. Be it overhead power lines or underground, connections between the wire feeding your home and the meter tray can come loose or corrode over time. The power company will test the line and if they see voltage fluctuations, they can tell if it is being caused inside the home or from the feed wires.

 

[Siyko]

I'll do that, thanks

 

[corkyg]

The last time I had this sort of a problem, the house circuits were out of balance. The fix was easy, they just had to move some things around.

 

[Siyko]

Who was 'they'? An electrician, or the power company?

I guess it's a difference of who pays for the repair, but I'm a bit afraid of calling the power company, having them say 'it's a problem in the house' and charging me a service fee or whatever

 

[bruceb]

Most power companies will not charge to come out. But call them and ask if you are worried. As to load balancing, that is usually done by an electrician. It is easy to do. Just see what amp breakers are where and they either need to be moved to the other side or the wire moved from one breaker to another one with same ampere rating. You normally do not need to move a 220V circuit breaker (double pole handle) as it is designed to pull power equally from both power buses.

 

[corkyg]

Who was 'they'? An electrician, or the power company?

I guess it's a difference of who pays for the repair, but I'm a bit afraid of calling the power company, having them say 'it's a problem in the house' and charging me a service fee or whatever

The power company's responsibility usually ends at your meter. "They" is your licensed electrical contractor.

 

[Torn Mind]

Paperdoc - thanks for the detailed answer. I assumed a UPS would typically run off battery power while it's charging, because I didn't think it could ever switch over in time, but I guess not. Is there a term for the ones that DO provide this 'normalized' output from the battery? I tried searching, and although I see a variety of prices, I don't see anything that would indicate this.

Kartajan - Thanks for the link. The description says:
"Over 116.5, it will Trim 10% off whatever voltage it is fed.
Below 96.5, it will Boost 20% to whatever voltage it gets.
It does this by changing the tap on the internal transformer."
I wonder if it would be able to do this quick enough to prevent these hiccups? Or if it's not too simple to work with a variety of voltage drops? I'm also curious how much power it consumes when something is plugged in. Time to do some research I suppose, but I have a good place to start.

Online/Double conversion UPS is what you are thinking of. Line interacttve or standby UPS will let mains power through unless voltage drops to an unacceptable level.

It is double conversion because AC is converted to DC to charge the battery and then power flows from the battery through an inverter and that inverter converts DC into AC.