Electoral Vote result:What if a tie with both at 269?

[dmcowen674]

When I looked at the Electoral possibilities in June it looked like a lock for McCain.

Obama has narrowed the gap a bit with the real possibility of a tie with neither of them making it to the necessary 270.

If that happens we can wind up with Pelosi as President

10-5-2008 McCain-Obama tie possible in presidential race

A handful of battleground states are likely to determine the November 4 U.S. presidential election and it's possible that Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama could split them in a manner that leaves each just short of victory.

If that happens, the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives would pick the president but it's unclear whether Democrats would have enough votes to send Obama to the White House.

Under the U.S. Constitution, the House would then decide the election when it meets in January, with each state getting one vote -- regardless of its size -- if the chamber has to break a tie.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would become acting president if neither chamber could settle on a president or vice president but she would have to resign her post.

 

[retrospooty]

I thought that in the event of a tie the speaker of the house casts the tie breaking vote... not becomes pres. ???

 

[Brainonska511]

Tie: each state in the House gets one vote and they vote on who the next president will be. It's in Article 2, Section 3 in the US Constitution.

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not lie an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner choose the President. But in choosing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two-thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall choose from them by Ballot the Vice-President.

From what it looks like, only the 5 highest people on the list of votes (looks like Electoral votes) can be voted for by the representative of a state. So even if there aren't 5 people to vote for, they can still only choose from the available candidates.

And the only way the Speaker could become acting President would be if they couldn't decide the president by Inauguration day. Of course, with each state getting one vote, you don't have to get all House members in line to vote - each state would have to decide how it wants it's voted counted.

 

[CallMeJoe]

It's simple enough to just read the relevant document. In this case, the original language of Article 2 has been superseded by this, from the 12th Amendment:

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

The House is allowed to take as many ballots as necessary to determine the new president, but must decide from among those receiving votes from duly selected Presidential Electors.

 

[IronWing]

Ron Paul still has a chance!!!! The Union can still be saved.

 

[chess9]

Another week of iffy stock market and bad economic numbers and this will be a landslide, so no worry about the House getting involved.

I now believe Obama will win this thing going away.

-Robert

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

No friggin' way this will happen. There's a reason it hasn't happened in nearly 200 years. Obama has a big lead and it's growing, despite Dave' stupid prognostication about how McCain will somehow eke out a victory.

Even Karl Rove gives Obama 273 electoral votes as it sits today. Yahoo! has Obama with 330 electoral votes at this point, and that doesn't even include DC, MD, DE, VT, or HI, all of which will certainly go to Obama. The polls will continue to ebb and flow, but a month from now this election will be a landslide.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
No friggin' way this will happen. There's a reason it hasn't happened in nearly 200 years. Obama has a big lead and it's growing, despite Dave' stupid prognostication about how McCain will somehow eke out a victory.

Even Karl Rove gives Obama 273 electoral votes as it sits today. Yahoo! has Obama with 330 electoral votes at this point, and that doesn't even include DC, MD, DE, VT, or HI, all of which will certainly go to Obama. The polls will continue to ebb and flow, but a month from now this election will be a landslide.

There was a tie in the election of 1800, with the House selecting Thomas Jefferson over Aaron Burr. In the election of 1824, John Quincy Adams was selected over Andrew Jackson; there was no tie, but neither had received a majority of Electoral votes.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

There was a tie in the election of 1800, with the House selecting Thomas Jefferson over Aaron Burr. In the election of 1824, John Quincy Adams was selected over Andrew Jackson; there was no tie, but neither had received a majority of Electoral votes.

I know - I said it hadn't happened in nearly 200 years, which is the case. It ain't happening this year, however . . .

 

[jpeyton]

The House would easily send Obama to the White House. Are you kidding? You really think they'll send McCain there if there was a tie? :laugh:

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The House would easily send Obama to the White House. Are you kidding? You really think they'll send McCain there if there was a tie? :laugh:

It's not a 1 rep, 1 vote situation. It's a 1 state, 1 vote situation. So each's state's delegation would have to decide how to vote, which could make things tricky.

But overall, I just don't see there being a tie in the electoral vote, so this is really a nonissue.

 

[Jhhnn]

It would be fun to have Pelosi as acting president, if only to watch rightwing pundits' heads explode...

The prospect set out in the OP is becoming extremely unlikely, anyway- it looks like Obama, pulling away...

 

[Lemon law]

If there were a tie, chance are, each side would try to litigate on one or more states they thought could break such a tie, thus avoiding throwing the election to the house. And the supreme court could again show bias, or they might avoid touching the issue with a 10 foot pole. Lots of hypotheticals could be in play, but if went to the house, McCain would probably be toast.

But unless McCain can stop the bleeding, he is going to be buried by a democratic landslide. Sadly, McCain's only chance now may be to go very negative on Obama, by launching a fleet of swiftboats.
A very risky tactic if it backfires. Or McCain can pray for favorable news, but chances are, any current events will favor Obama.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
When I looked at the Electoral possibilities in June it looked like a lock for McCain.

Obama has narrowed the gap a bit with the real possibility of a tie with neither of them making it to the necessary 270.

If that happens we can wind up with Pelosi as President

10-5-2008 McCain-Obama tie possible in presidential race

A handful of battleground states are likely to determine the November 4 U.S. presidential election and it's possible that Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama could split them in a manner that leaves each just short of victory.

If that happens, the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives would pick the president but it's unclear whether Democrats would have enough votes to send Obama to the White House.

Under the U.S. Constitution, the House would then decide the election when it meets in January, with each state getting one vote -- regardless of its size -- if the chamber has to break a tie.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would become acting president if neither chamber could settle on a president or vice president but she would have to resign her post.

Dave, it never looked like a lock for McCain.

 

[Thump553]

As long as the Supreme Court has an odd number of members there will never be a tie. That was proved beyond doubt in 2000.

 

[nageov3t]

yeah... I don't see the house voting for president pelosi.

she'll be lucky to keep her speaker position after the job she's done.

 

[shira]

Of course, another not-so-unlikely scenario is that Obama gets assassinated before the election. I wouldn't put anything past the right-wing ultra fringe.

If Obama were killed at least a couple of weeks before the election, in all likelihood the Democrats would nominate Hilary in his place. But if Obama died a few days before the election and wins the general election anyway, things could get dicey, as the Constitution doesn't address this situation.

The House shouldn't be allowed to choose the President in this scenario, since the Constitution says the House decides only "if no person have such majority" of the electors. But I wouldn't put it past our 5-4 conservative SCOTUS to rule that the House must choose between the two remaining of the top-3 candidates, which would mean choosing between McCain and either Nadar or Ron Paul. In other words, a right-wing whack-job plus a conservative Supreme Court could subvert the will of the people and make McCain President, even if he lost the election.

Edit: Another similar scenario: Obama wins the election but gets assassinated before inauguration day.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Dave, it never looked like a lock for McCain.

That's because you look with your eyes, and not Dave's ass.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: shira
Of course, another not-so-unlikely scenario is that Obama gets assassinated before the election. I wouldn't put anything past the right-wing ultra fringe.

If Obama were killed at least a couple of weeks before the election, in all likelihood the Democrats would nominate Hilary in his place. But if Obama died a few days before the election and wins the general election anyway, things could get dicey, as the Constitution doesn't address this situation.

The House shouldn't be allowed to choose the President in this scenario, since the Constitution says the House decides only "if no person have such majority" of the electors. But I wouldn't put it past our 5-4 conservative SCOTUS to rule that the House must choose between the two remaining of the top-3 candidates, which would mean choosing between McCain and either Nadar or Ron Paul. In other words, a right-wing whack-job plus a conservative Supreme Court could subvert the will of the people and make McCain President, even if he lost the election.

Edit: Another similar scenario: Obama wins the election but gets assassinated before inauguration day.

I would imagine it would fall to biden, as the legally elected VP