Einstein: God belief is childish

[bamacre]

The very problem with religion has resulted in us having religious topics in a politics and news forum.

When politics gets into the religion business, and when religion gets into the business of politics, the reasoning and the results are almost always negative. It is always meant to impose on the freedoms and lives of others. People are ignorantly led to believe that because their beliefs are moral, this imposing on others is moral as well, no matter the cost. And unfortunately so many see religion only through this narrow-minded and corrupted view brought to us throughout history by those in power and also those who seek power. Often they fail to see the capabilities and positives of religion when it is not tied to government or organization. Ironically, they fail to see it simply because it is not imposed upon them.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: bamacre
The very problem with religion has resulted in us having religious topics in a politics and news forum.

When politics gets into the religion business, and when religion gets into the business of politics, the reasoning and the results are almost always negative. It is always meant to impose on the freedoms and lives of others. People are ignorantly led to believe that because their beliefs are moral, this imposing on others is moral as well, no matter the cost. And unfortunately so many see religion only through this narrow-minded and corrupted view brought to us throughout history by those in power and also those who seek power. Often they fail to see the capabilities and positives of religion when it is not tied to government or organization. Ironically, they fail to see it simply because it is not imposed upon them.

Good post. I am agnostic and generally anti organized religion. That said, I know some organized religions do some good - charity for instance. I know a family that has a strong faith and ran into some financial problems. The guy asked the priest why they have befallen on hard times when he's been loyal in faith and tithes. The church paid their bills for a few months so they could get back on their feet.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: bamacre
The very problem with religion has resulted in us having religious topics in a politics and news forum.

When politics gets into the religion business, and when religion gets into the business of politics, the reasoning and the results are almost always negative. It is always meant to impose on the freedoms and lives of others. People are ignorantly led to believe that because their beliefs are moral, this imposing on others is moral as well, no matter the cost. And unfortunately so many see religion only through this narrow-minded and corrupted view brought to us throughout history by those in power and also those who seek power. Often they fail to see the capabilities and positives of religion when it is not tied to government or organization. Ironically, they fail to see it simply because it is not imposed upon them.

Good post. I am agnostic and generally anti organized religion. That said, I know some organized religions do some good - charity for instance. I know a family that has a strong faith and ran into some financial problems. The guy asked the priest why they have befallen on hard times when he's been loyal in faith and tithes. The church paid their bills for a few months so they could get back on their feet.

I think that all too often people get lost in the ideology.

We need to accept that there are people in all walks of life on opposite sides of all positions/ideologies/religions that are wholesome, caring and otherwise good human beings that are being demonized because of guilt by association of the few whackos that get the most attention.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Very many great people believe in God (Mother Theresa for one) and very many great people dont. We;ll find out wont we

Epic fail.
Mother Theresa may have died an atheist.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...news/main3199062.shtml

Oh please... one more spin cycle and next thing you know the apostle Paul wasn't a Christian either.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Religions were created so that people who knew nothing and would never meet anybody who did, could have a foundation that could act as a bridge.

Each was a bridge based on what people believed at the time and each had nothing to do with what one can find by crossing.

Just curious, where exactly do you get your information on why religions were created?

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Very many great people believe in God (Mother Theresa for one) and very many great people dont. We;ll find out wont we

Epic fail.
Mother Theresa may have died an atheist.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...news/main3199062.shtml

Oh please... one more spin cycle and next thing you know the apostle Paul wasn't a Christian either.

Paul was Jewish, just like Jesus. 0 for 2.

 

[ericlp]

We all know Einstein was not believer in the evangelical god...

"It was of course a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it"




Einstein as an agnostic

"I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him."

Letter to Edgar Meyer, a colleague, January 2, 1915 Source: Robert Schulmann

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment."


-----------------------------------------------------------------

What are the basic views of the Agnostic religion?

What are the basic views of the agnostic religion? Agnostics claim to have no knowledge about the existence of God. In fact, the term ?agnostic? literally means ?no knowledge.?

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: ericlp
"It was of course a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it"

Einstein as an agnostic

"I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him."

Letter to Edgar Meyer, a colleague, January 2, 1915 Source: Robert Schulmann

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment."

It is clear to me that Einstein wanted to distance himself from religion in this context, and I see some moral value in that too. However, that position is being interpreted as a (strongly) atheistic one, which isn't true.

In your own case, it again seems to be one of "yeah, I think like Einstein", for which I think Einstein might instead say: "Shame on you; think for yourself, as I did". I think that Einstein didn't think or feel enough about this topic just because he had other things to do, and didn't care to, but that others shouldn't be satisfied with Einstein's conclusions and in my view, failure, in this.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

I am an atheist not because I hate but because I love humanity.
Religion raises barriers. Barriers against gays, against races, other religions.
I see religion as yet another social function. You can choose to live outside a label and find you can do the most good this way.
I've never been more spiritual then when I became an atheist.

BTW I don't believe anger is a good way to arrive at any conclusion. Suffering can lead you to question your beliefs but it should not be the reason why you change.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: gersson
I am an atheist not because I hate but because I love humanity.
Religion raises barriers. Barriers against gays, against races, other religions.

Yet, do you not see something of your own self-imposed barrier active in this thought against those of some chosen religion?

A better approach in my view is broader, which starts with a premise of right to belief / non-belief in everyone, not "atheism is better for everyone", "agnosticism is better for everyone", and not even the apparently most commonly held "theism is better for everyone" if we're to judge by US politics for example.

I'm a theist, and the thought "at least some slight theism is better for everyone" is somewhat natural and supposedly appropriate for me, but I don't hold it. I'd say instead: Follow your own highest truth, and allow others to do the same for themselves.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

Originally posted by: gersson
I am an atheist not because I hate but because I love humanity.
Religion raises barriers. Barriers against gays, against races, other religions.

Yet, do you not see something of your own self-imposed barrier active in this thought against those of some chosen religion?

A better approach in my view is broader, which starts with a premise of right to belief / non-belief in everyone, not "atheism is better for everyone", "agnosticism is better for everyone", and not even the apparently most commonly held "theism is better for everyone" if we're to judge by US politics for example.

I'm a theist, and the thought "at least some slight theism is better for everyone" is somewhat natural and supposedly appropriate for me, but I don't hold it. I'd say instead: Follow your own highest truth, and allow others to do the same for themselves.

I understand what you mean but I come from a very religious background. I understand where religious people come from. I disagree with them now that I am an adult and have thought about the issue as profoundly as I could (think about it: small town boy abandon's long standing belief in god). Had I not had this experience, I would concede your point.

BTW, I just heard someone use a funny term (at least I think it's funny): Angstheists

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: gersson
I understand what you mean but I come from a very religious background. I understand where religious people come from.

So you understand God then?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: gersson
I am an atheist not because I hate but because I love humanity.
Religion raises barriers. Barriers against gays, against races, other religions.
I see religion as yet another social function. You can choose to live outside a label and find you can do the most good this way.
I've never been more spiritual then when I became an atheist.

BTW I don't believe anger is a good way to arrive at any conclusion. Suffering can lead you to question your beliefs but it should not be the reason why you change.

I think you just helped prove the point I made earlier.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

Originally posted by: gersson
I understand what you mean but I come from a very religious background. I understand where religious people come from.

So you understand God then?

uhh...I'm not in the mood to be called out.
If you extrapolated your question from what I said -- I just don't see how
(edit: oh I think I understand what you mean: Religious people come from god so therefore when I say I know where religious people come from I am saying I understand god)
I've seen it often said that the most 'logical' position to take is agnosticism.
I can understand that position but I've taken a side.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: gersson
I am an atheist not because I hate but because I love humanity.
Religion raises barriers. Barriers against gays, against races, other religions.
I see religion as yet another social function. You can choose to live outside a label and find you can do the most good this way.
I've never been more spiritual then when I became an atheist.

BTW I don't believe anger is a good way to arrive at any conclusion. Suffering can lead you to question your beliefs but it should not be the reason why you change.

I think you just helped prove the point I made earlier.

which one? The angstheist part?

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I think you just helped prove the point I made earlier.

It was a good point, against institutionalization. A distinction to be made however is that while secularization of government is fair, secularization of individuals as a whole would be going too far. To think that atheism would be better for humanity is to ignore and offend a big part of humanity and to wage a religious war of just a slight difference -- one to zero as some say.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: gersson
which one? The angstheist part?

Originally posted by: bamacre
The very problem with religion has resulted in us having religious topics in a politics and news forum.

When politics gets into the religion business, and when religion gets into the business of politics, the reasoning and the results are almost always negative. It is always meant to impose on the freedoms and lives of others. People are ignorantly led to believe that because their beliefs are moral, this imposing on others is moral as well, no matter the cost. And unfortunately so many see religion only through this narrow-minded and corrupted view brought to us throughout history by those in power and also those who seek power. Often they fail to see the capabilities and positives of religion when it is not tied to government or organization. Ironically, they fail to see it simply because it is not imposed upon them.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: gersson
which one? The angstheist part?

Originally posted by: bamacre
The very problem with religion has resulted in us having religious topics in a politics and news forum.

When politics gets into the religion business, and when religion gets into the business of politics, the reasoning and the results are almost always negative. It is always meant to impose on the freedoms and lives of others. People are ignorantly led to believe that because their beliefs are moral, this imposing on others is moral as well, no matter the cost. And unfortunately so many see religion only through this narrow-minded and corrupted view brought to us throughout history by those in power and also those who seek power. Often they fail to see the capabilities and positives of religion when it is not tied to government or organization. Ironically, they fail to see it simply because it is not imposed upon them.

Hmm I can see how your statement can go both ways. You agree with me or am I one of the "so many see religion only through this narrow-minded and corrupted view"?

You position to me is not clear ;

 

[LtPage1]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
He is entitled to his opinion just like everyone else. I don't know anyone who thinks Einstein was a great philosopher or theologian - he was a great scientist. Therefore, I don't give his opinion any more weight in this matter than any other scientist.

Einstein has been the target of a smear campaign, which began with Hoover's FBI and continues today, to portray him as a head-in-the-clouds genius physicist. The man was extremely active in politics, and had some incredibly intelligent and forward-thinking things to say (in public, including multiple Congressional hearings) about Communist witchhunts and racism in America, among other things.

Disagree with this opinion of his if you want, but don't write him off as "just a scientist" whose opinion about other things is worthless. :beer:

 

[Enig101]

Originally posted by: LtPage1

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
He is entitled to his opinion just like everyone else. I don't know anyone who thinks Einstein was a great philosopher or theologian - he was a great scientist. Therefore, I don't give his opinion any more weight in this matter than any other scientist.

Einstein has been the target of a smear campaign, which began with Hoover's FBI and continues today, to portray him as a head-in-the-clouds genius physicist. The man was extremely active in politics, and had some incredibly intelligent and forward-thinking things to say (in public, including multiple Congressional hearings) about Communist witchhunts and racism in America, among other things.

Disagree with this opinion of his if you want, but don't write him off as "just a scientist" whose opinion about other things is worthless. :beer:

I think what Cyclo meant was that Einstein's genius with regard to physics says little if anything about his authority on matters of philosophy and religion. People seem to think that because Einstein believed or did not believe in God, it means something profound.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: gersson

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: gersson
which one? The angstheist part?

Originally posted by: bamacre
The very problem with religion has resulted in us having religious topics in a politics and news forum.

When politics gets into the religion business, and when religion gets into the business of politics, the reasoning and the results are almost always negative. It is always meant to impose on the freedoms and lives of others. People are ignorantly led to believe that because their beliefs are moral, this imposing on others is moral as well, no matter the cost. And unfortunately so many see religion only through this narrow-minded and corrupted view brought to us throughout history by those in power and also those who seek power. Often they fail to see the capabilities and positives of religion when it is not tied to government or organization. Ironically, they fail to see it simply because it is not imposed upon them.

Hmm I can see how your statement can go both ways. You agree with me or am I one of the "so many see religion only through this narrow-minded and corrupted view"?

You position to me is not clear ;

The second part. But that's a generalization based upon your statement above.

 

[JackBurton]

Do you really have to be Einstein to know Santa isn't real?

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Do you really have to be Einstein to know Santa isn't real?

No, technically you have to be God.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Do you really have to be Einstein to know Santa isn't real?

No, technically you have to be God.

Ah, you have to be God to know Santa isn't real. Ok. Got it. Carry on...

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Einstein
I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/...-religion-theology.htm

That was Einstein. I have a slightly different approach. I respect the atheist for being honest about views which he or she hold to be true, and not paying lip service in hopes of some great reward. I break where that attitude is not similarly shared in a respect for others' rights to divergent beliefs for themselves.