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Eight NFL playoff teams left, rate the quarterbacks from best to worst

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Originally posted by: Ne0
Originally posted by: Kev
Originally posted by: RedRooster
QB skill only, disregarding if their team will win more with them or not, mine is:

Manning, Vick and then the rest of the crap. Really, Culpepper/McNabb are garbage, and the rest are very mediocre on great teams.
Click to expand...

You mean Michael "threw for over 200 yards this season 3 times" Vick?
Michael "More interceptions than touchdowns" Vick?
Michael "spy me and my team loses" Vick?

Yeah Vick's 150 yards passing per game, 53% completion percentage, and second highest sack total in the league are MVP-worthy statistics.
Click to expand...


He may have threw for over 200 only 3 times but that's because of his lack of pass attempts per game. He averages 20 pass attempts per game & the reason is because Atlanta has the #1 rushing attack in the NFL. Mcnabb for example, had 30 pass attempts per game.

More interceptions then touchdowns? 14 TD's is more then 12 INT's? Also, you could argue that 5 of the INT's weren't his fault. 3 INT's being balls that hit WR right in the chest (peerless price) but instead of catching it, tipping it in the air & into the defender's hands. The other 2 INT's of the 5 being hail mary's to the endzone right before halftime (end of half).

Spy me and my team loses? LOL, have you even watched the Falcons games? The last time a spy worked was back in 2002 when the Chicago Bears & Baltimore Ravens used it (We lost against Chicago but beat Ravens that year). Spying doesn't really work, Tampa Bay does the best job defending Vick and Montey Kiffin stresses that spying doesn't work against Vick. Instead they pressure him from all sides, forcing him into quick decisions.

53% ? It's 56.4%, also accounting the fact it's his first year in a brand new offensive system & without a true #1 WR. But look at your man Mcnabb's stats before he had TO this season (very similar to Vick's & this is with Mcnabb being in the same system all these years):

49.1% completion, 948 yards passing, 8 TD, 7 INT, 60.1 rating
58.0% completion, 3365 yards passing, 21 TD, 13 INT, 77.8 rating
57.8% completion, 3233 yards passing, 25 TD, 12 INT, 84.3 rating
58.4% completion, 2289 yards passing, 17 TD, 6 INT, 86.0 rating
57.5% completion, 3216 yards passing, 16 TD, 11 INT, 79.6 rating

Now look at Mcnabb this past year when he got a true #1 WR:
64.0% completion, 3875 yards passing, 31 TD, 8 INT, 104.7 rating
Click to expand...
Did Vick have the worst receiving corps in the NFL for 3 straight years? McNabb did. And he still led them to the NFC champ. game every one of those years, even beating Vick along the way a couple times. Also, has Vick ever thrown 4 TD's on a broken leg?

Vick could only dream of doing that!


 
Originally posted by: hpkeeper
8. Marc Bulger (although he's hot right now, he doesn't compare to the talent of the other NFC quarterbacks and the numbers they're putting up, surprising with the big names he has around him)
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Really? Can you name ANY of our starting linemen other than Orlando Pace? It's kind of hard to throw on your back.
Originally posted by: TheNinja
--- Top Tier, head and shoulders above the rest
Manning (no disputing it this year)
Culpepper (I'm surprised there is so little love for Culpepper, higher % than Manning, more yards, 39 TDs!!)
--- 2nd Tier (this gets trickier) ---
Brady (I personally don't think he's particularly great but his winning % and rings don't lie)
Bulger (his numbers don't lie and he's as cool as the other side of the pillow)
McNabb (a career 58% passer doesn't belong too high)
--- 3rd Tier (still great QBs though) ---
Vick (dangerous but not a great passer yet)
Pennington (not impressed with his dink and dunk offense)
Roethlisburger (just b/c he's unproven and has a great team doesn't have to throw much)
Click to expand...
Now THIS is closer to what I think. And thanks for the Bulger love; he's much better than 99% of people give him credit for.
1) Manning
2) Culpepper (Look at his passing numbers, and then add in that he has a great set of legs, and you've got a winner)
3) McNabb (Say all you want people, his moves in that Dallas game were incredible)
4) Vick (I can't stand the idea of putting a punt returner in the QB's spot either, but he changes games with his legs)
5) Brady (Rings, rings, rings....)
6) Bulger (Look at what happened when Chandler tried to take over... EW! Plus, NOBODY can tell me he's worse than Pennington or Roethlisberger)
7) Pennington (I think he's good, but he hasn't even had the chance to prove how good he was this year. They've rarely gone to teh deep passing game at all.)
8) Roethlisberger (He's good, there's no denying that, but you just can't put him above the rest of these guys)
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Ne0
Originally posted by: Kev
Originally posted by: RedRooster
QB skill only, disregarding if their team will win more with them or not, mine is:

Manning, Vick and then the rest of the crap. Really, Culpepper/McNabb are garbage, and the rest are very mediocre on great teams.
Click to expand...

You mean Michael "threw for over 200 yards this season 3 times" Vick?
Michael "More interceptions than touchdowns" Vick?
Michael "spy me and my team loses" Vick?

Yeah Vick's 150 yards passing per game, 53% completion percentage, and second highest sack total in the league are MVP-worthy statistics.
Click to expand...


He may have threw for over 200 only 3 times but that's because of his lack of pass attempts per game. He averages 20 pass attempts per game & the reason is because Atlanta has the #1 rushing attack in the NFL. Mcnabb for example, had 30 pass attempts per game.

More interceptions then touchdowns? 14 TD's is more then 12 INT's? Also, you could argue that 5 of the INT's weren't his fault. 3 INT's being balls that hit WR right in the chest (peerless price) but instead of catching it, tipping it in the air & into the defender's hands. The other 2 INT's of the 5 being hail mary's to the endzone right before halftime (end of half).

Spy me and my team loses? LOL, have you even watched the Falcons games? The last time a spy worked was back in 2002 when the Chicago Bears & Baltimore Ravens used it (We lost against Chicago but beat Ravens that year). Spying doesn't really work, Tampa Bay does the best job defending Vick and Montey Kiffin stresses that spying doesn't work against Vick. Instead they pressure him from all sides, forcing him into quick decisions.

53% ? It's 56.4%, also accounting the fact it's his first year in a brand new offensive system & without a true #1 WR. But look at your man Mcnabb's stats before he had TO this season (very similar to Vick's & this is with Mcnabb being in the same system all these years):

49.1% completion, 948 yards passing, 8 TD, 7 INT, 60.1 rating
58.0% completion, 3365 yards passing, 21 TD, 13 INT, 77.8 rating
57.8% completion, 3233 yards passing, 25 TD, 12 INT, 84.3 rating
58.4% completion, 2289 yards passing, 17 TD, 6 INT, 86.0 rating
57.5% completion, 3216 yards passing, 16 TD, 11 INT, 79.6 rating

Now look at Mcnabb this past year when he got a true #1 WR:
64.0% completion, 3875 yards passing, 31 TD, 8 INT, 104.7 rating
Click to expand...
Did Vick have the worst receiving corps in the NFL for 3 straight years? McNabb did. And he still led them to the NFC champ. game every one of those years, even beating Vick along the way a couple times. Also, has Vick ever thrown 4 TD's on a broken leg?

Vick could only dream of doing that!
Click to expand...

Brian Finneran, Shawn Jefferson, Martay Jenkins, Trevor Gaylor was Vick's WR corps before. I could say that was probably the worst receiving corps. The only time Eagles beat Vick was in 2002 playoffs (with a TD called back by phantom holding call that could've changed the game completly). Last year when the Eagles won, Vick was injured. That game against the cardinals was great where Mcnabb played with a broken leg. Vick is young & exciting (#1 selling jersey in the NFL), he's not a good passer but he's only going to get better. He's a winner, and that's undeniable. Whenever Vick plays, the defense plays better as well. Just look at last season, first 12 games 2-10 without him but the 4 games he comes back it's the same team personnel wise except one player and the defense plays better in majority of the games and they go 3-1 to finish out.
 
Comparing Michael Vick to John Elway after both QB's first 38 starts:

Vick's first 38 starts:
Passing: 512 of 944 (54.2%) for 6555 yards (6.94 ypa), 36 TDs, 28 interceptions, 76.6 QB Rating
Rushing: 295 attempts, 2133 yards (7.2 ypa), 12 rushing TD

Elway's first 38 starts:
Passing: 693 of 1296 (53.4%) for 8459 yards (6.53 ypa), 49 TDs, 55 interceptions, 68.8 QB Rating
Rushing: 142 attempts, 668 yards (4.7 ypa), 2 rushing TD

Elway accounted for about 20 more passing yards per game, but he also attempted almost 5 more passes per game. Meanwhile, Vick's completion percentage, yards per attempt, and TD/interception ratio were all better. And obviously that doesn't account at all for the huge edge Vick had rushing. I bet people thought Elway was never going to amount to much, with such horrible QB stats?
 
My bad on the TD/INT stat, I coulda swore the last time I looked he had 12/13. Regardless, 14/12 ratio is nothing to write home about.

"He averages 20 pass attempts per game & the reason is because Atlanta has the #1 rushing attack in the NFL"
This is backwards logic; Atlanta has the #1 rushing attack because Vick is always running, after panicking in the pocket after .7 seconds.
 
Originally posted by: Ne0
Brian Finneran, Shawn Jefferson, Martay Jenkins, Trevor Gaylor was Vick's WR corps before. I could say that was probably the worst receiving corps. The only time Eagles beat Vick was in 2002 playoffs (with a TD called back by phantom holding call that could've changed the game completly). Last year when the Eagles won, Vick was injured. That game against the cardinals was great where Mcnabb played with a broken leg. Vick is young & exciting (#1 selling jersey in the NFL), he's not a good passer but he's only going to get better. He's a winner, and that's undeniable. Whenever Vick plays, the defense plays better as well. Just look at last season, first 12 games 2-10 without him but the 4 games he comes back it's the same team personnel wise except one player and the defense plays better in majority of the games and they go 3-1 to finish out.
Click to expand...
I know for fact that the Eagles were ranked last in receiving for the 3 straight years they made the NFC champ games, whether Hotlanta was 2nd or 3rd to last I don't know. But nobody can deny that McNabb, albeit low completion %'s, made something out of nothing with those offenses.

I remember the 2002 game vs the Falcons, it was when Brian Dawkins hit Vick (scrambling and blindsided) so hard it knocked the wind out of him. How often will you see McNabb take a hit like that using his legs?

I'm not doubting that Vick is a great player, I saw him snatch a victory in the jaws of defeat vs my alma mater (WVU) when he was at VT. It would have been a monumental upset too, I remember punching walls that night. However, all in all I still think McNabb is better, he has better field vision and possesses a better pocket awareness, due to experience. Vick will be there someday, he's still pretty young, but needs to earn some notches on his belt in the gutsy leader column like McNabb has.
 
This is so full of b.s.
Originally posted by: Ne0
He may have threw for over 200 only 3 times but that's because of his lack of pass attempts per game. He averages 20 pass attempts per game & the reason is because Atlanta has the #1 rushing attack in the NFL.
Click to expand...
And why were their pass attempts so few? Because unless someone is WIDE open he tucks the ball and runs. He was given the opportunity, he just couldn't capitalize.
More interceptions then touchdowns? 14 TD's is more then 12 INT's? Also, you could argue that 5 of the INT's weren't his fault. 3 INT's being balls that hit WR right in the chest (peerless price) but instead of catching it, tipping it in the air & into the defender's hands. The other 2 INT's of the 5 being hail mary's to the endzone right before halftime (end of half).
Click to expand...
Give me a break. Don't nit-pick at the numbers, just look at them straight-up:
-5th-highest INT/Attempt rate in the NFL
-3rd-lowest completion percentage
-3rd-lowest total passing yards
-7th-worst TD/INT ratio
-Least completions of any NFL team

Now, I'm looking at the Falcons as a team, here, and not just Vick, but other than the one Seahawk game, they're one and the same.
Spy me and my team loses? LOL, have you even watched the Falcons games? The last time a spy worked was back in 2002 when the Chicago Bears & Baltimore Ravens used it (We lost against Chicago but beat Ravens that year). Spying doesn't really work, Tampa Bay does the best job defending Vick and Montey Kiffin stresses that spying doesn't work against Vick. Instead they pressure him from all sides, forcing him into quick decisions.
Click to expand...
Decisions he can't make. Atlanta was tied for 5th-most sacks given up this year. He waits FAR too long with the ball, and then he runs around after he decides his guys aren't open.
53% ? It's 56.4%, also accounting the fact it's his first year in a brand new offensive system & without a true #1 WR.
Click to expand...
Ummmm, wtf is Peerless Price? For that matter, WTF is Alge Crumpler? Both are good receivers capable of making plays.
But look at your man Mcnabb's stats before he had TO this season (very similar to Vick's & this is with Mcnabb being in the same system all these years):

49.1% completion, 948 yards passing, 8 TD, 7 INT, 60.1 rating
58.0% completion, 3365 yards passing, 21 TD, 13 INT, 77.8 rating
57.8% completion, 3233 yards passing, 25 TD, 12 INT, 84.3 rating
58.4% completion, 2289 yards passing, 17 TD, 6 INT, 86.0 rating
57.5% completion, 3216 yards passing, 16 TD, 11 INT, 79.6 rating

Now look at Mcnabb this past year when he got a true #1 WR:
64.0% completion, 3875 yards passing, 31 TD, 8 INT, 104.7 rating
Click to expand...
Again, Vick has Crumpler AND Price, even if he's not a top-tier WR, he's plenty good. Don't fault him because Vick isn't accurate enough to get the ball to him. McNabb had NOBODY.
 
Originally posted by: Kev
My bad on the TD/INT stat, I coulda swore the last time I looked he had 12/13. Regardless, 14/12 ratio is nothing to write home about.

"He averages 20 pass attempts per game & the reason is because Atlanta has the #1 rushing attack in the NFL"
This is backwards logic; Atlanta has the #1 rushing attack because Vick is always running, after panicking in the pocket after .7 seconds.
Click to expand...

Vick runs because he has to. Have you seen the Falcons games this season (mainly carolina & tampa game)? All of the big hits were when he was in the pocket. If he was in the pocket this whole season, and didn't run I would bet he would've had a pretty big injury. He is forced to run because it's a combination of WR's not getting open & Offensive line not giving much protection. Vick's 1st & 2nd reads (Peerless Price, and Dez White) don't usually get open before pressure is in Vick's face so he has to tuck it & run (something he can do very well). When Vick has had time to go through his progressions & make reads, he has had success by passing to Alge Crumpler (usually his 3rd read). Vick is young (younger then Carson Palmer, David Carr, Joey Harrington) & like these QB's he needs time to grow as a passer & QB. He's overhyped simply because he's the most exciting player in the NFL. Vick averages 7.5 yards every time he runs, so if you can get 7.5 yards every time you run then I don't see why not he shouldn't continue to do so. Dunn & Duckett combined for 1,615 Yards rushing and a YPC of 4.55. Which if you consider them one player is good for 3rd best in the league (and the most rushing TD's). TJ Duckett has been "stuffed" (a carry for 0 yards or less) exactly 1 time over his 104 carries or .96%. TJ Duckett had 4.9 YPC (3rd in the NFL) and Warrick Dunn had 4.2 YPC (22nd) and Mike Vick had 7.5 (1st in the NFL).
 
Ok so in your last post you say that:

1) Vick can't get the ball to his receivers
2) He is young
3) He has 2 good running backs

How does this support the point that he is anything more than a mediocre quarterback?
 
And why were their pass attempts so few? Because unless someone is WIDE open he tucks the ball and runs. He was given the opportunity, he just couldn't capitalize.
Click to expand...

Again, because we have success in running the ball. Mora & Knapp's philosophy, 50% running calls, 50% passing calls. Unlike other teams with generally 60-70% passing calls. Vick's first & second reads -Peerless Price were usually never open & when they were open, they would drop some of the balls. Vick also had some problems overthrowing them when they were open but in general they weren't open. Also, pressure was in Vick's face quickly. Defenses like blitzing Vick, Vick needs to learn & he needs to audible at the line & go to his hot route but Vick usually doesn't & improvises.

Give me a break. Don't nit-pick at the numbers, just look at them straight-up:
-5th-highest INT/Attempt rate in the NFL
-3rd-lowest completion percentage
-3rd-lowest total passing yards
-7th-worst TD/INT ratio
-Least completions of any NFL team

Now, I'm looking at the Falcons as a team, here, and not just Vick, but other than the one Seahawk game, they're one and the same.
Click to expand...

Bad passing stats, but how are the rushing stats? What is Vick known for? No one's denying that his passing stats are below mediocre.

Decisions he can't make. Atlanta was tied for 5th-most sacks given up this year. He waits FAR too long with the ball, and then he runs around after he decides his guys aren't open.
Click to expand...

He holds on to the ball too much at times, but generally he doesn't have much o-line protection not to mention again that his WR don't usually get open. Thus, he has to run.

Ummmm, wtf is Peerless Price? For that matter, WTF is Alge Crumpler? Both are good receivers capable of making plays.
Click to expand...
Alge Crumpler is a TE, and what are people calling Peerless Price? Yes, their saying Peerless Price isn't a true #1. People are saying Peerless Price is the second version of Alvin Harper. Price, isn't a receiver capable of making plays unless he has a true #1 with him (Eric Moulds). Alge Crumpler is capable of making plays, but a lot of times he's at the line blocking. Now teams know about Crump, there double teaming him.

Again, Vick has Crumpler AND Price, even if he's not a top-tier WR, he's plenty good. Don't fault him because Vick isn't accurate enough to get the ball to him. McNabb had NOBODY.
Click to expand...
I would compare Price to Todd Pinkston. Freddie Mitchell, James Thrash, Antonio Freeman (season with 1424 receiving yards), and Todd Pinkston aren't quite nobody.
 
To date, the weighted (8th = 1pt, 1st = 8pts) results are:

Manning - 714

Culpepper - 572

Brady -- 480

McNabb -- 436

Vick -- 333

Roethlisberger -- 287

Pennington -- 178

Bulger -- 147


Personally, while I think Culpepper is quite good, I also think he's been the beneficiary of Randy Moss and a fine receiving corps. Plus, he's averaged more than one fumble per game in his career, which is damaging and unacceptable.

I think both Vick and McNabb (prior to this year) have a more positive impact on their teams than the raw number would indicate. Just win, baby.

I'm an Eagles fan, so I'm biased towards McNabb. He has made things happen for the Eagles, and all with a truly crappy receiving corps (take Todd Pinkston . . . please) and no established running game to fall back on. He's not God, he has flaws, like staying consistent, especially in the short passing game, and he still has to prove to me and everyone else that he can take his team all the way, but I like him, possibly as a distant #2 to Manning.

 
Originally posted by: Kev
Ok so in your last post you say that:

1) Vick can't get the ball to his receivers
2) He is young
3) He has 2 good running backs

How does this support the point that he is anything more than a mediocre quarterback?
Click to expand...

Vick is a mediocre QB if you go by passing statistics alone. But there are many factors on why the passing statistics are mediocre (new system, playcalling, wr not getting open, o-line breakdown). However, if you account his running ability, his win-loss record, and how the team performs with him compared to without then he is far from mediocre.
 
Originally posted by: Perknose
To date, the weighted (8th = 1pt, 1st = 8pts) results are:

Manning - 714
Culpepper - 572
Brady -- 480
McNabb -- 436
Vick -- 333
Roethlisberger -- 287
Pennington -- 178
Bulger -- 147
Click to expand...

ATOT actually did a pretty good job in my opinion so far. I think Bulger deserves to be right around Vick though slightly ahead I think. But he is a quiet guy and the Rams haven't had much hype this year so he probably gets overlooked. Other than that I'd say ATOT is S-M-R-T smart.
 
Originally posted by: Kev
potential is one thing, but saying he is in the top 5 right now is just ludicrous.
Click to expand...
I think Vick could be #5, I think he's better than Bulger, Pennington, and BigBen. If you gave Vick the receivers that Bulger has, he would be pretty dangerous! He also has that gamebreaking ability, which is why I put him above Pennington. BigBen is still a baby now, we don't know how he would do on an average team (i.e. one where receivers drop passes, and don't have the best running game).
 
Originally posted by: RedRooster
QB skill only, disregarding if their team will win more with them or not, mine is:

Manning, Vick and then the rest of the crap. Really, Culpepper/McNabb are garbage, and the rest are very mediocre on great teams.
Click to expand...

Been eating lead paint chips again?
 
Pennington is very accurate though and doesn't cough the ball up as much. The receivers argument about Bulger/Vick I don't agree with either... I don't know if Vick would be as good as Bulger in that system. He's better than Big Ben at this point though, I'll give him that much.

Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on passing ability. But I'd rather have a great passer than an injury-risk running back who throws the ball every once and awhile.
 
Vick refuese to lose.

Brady has done it so often he may be the best QB in the NFL.

Manning wets himself in big games.

Pennington well is the worst of the bunch.

Mcnabb is one of the best.

Culpepper would have been MVP of the league had Manning not thrown all of those TD's.

Bulger Who is Bulger?

Big Ben is a rookie plus I think the Steelers win without him. Not sure the other teams can say that about there QB.
 
Originally posted by: Kev
Pennington is very accurate though and doesn't cough the ball up as much. The receivers argument about Bulger/Vick I don't agree with either... I don't know if Vick would be as good as Bulger in that system. He's better than Big Ben at this point though, I'll give him that much.

Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on passing ability. But I'd rather have a great passer than an injury-risk running back who throws the ball every once and awhile.
Click to expand...
Bulger made a horrible deep throw vs Seattle last week (that was easily picked), just an example of why I think it is the receivers that really bring out the best in Bulger. I suffered through 3 years of college at Mountaineer Field watching Bulger, and he left a lot to be desired, he was average at best IMO.

Pennington doesn't have the best receivers either, but he does have C.Mart which helps a ton. If you put Vick on the Jets, I think they're a better team than w/ Pennington IMO. Their O Line is very good, and would allow Vick to pick up a ton of yards rushing. I can't honestly say that the Falcons would be in the playoffs with Pennington, since their O-Line isn't as good.
 
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