[EETimes] TSMC starting 5 nm EUV Risk Production in April?

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
5,986
123
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#1
https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333827

It's only risk production, but unlike the 7+ node this is fully EUV like Samsung's 7 nm node.

TSMC said that N5 will deliver 14.7% to 17.7% speed gains and 1.8 to 1.86 area shrinks based on tests with Arm A72 cores. The N7+ node can deliver 6% to 12% less power and 20% better density; however, TSMC did not mention speed gains.
 

Vattila

Senior member
Oct 22, 2004
363
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#2
From the article:

"TSMC announced that it taped out a customer chip in an N7+ node that can use EUV on up to four layers. Its N5 that will use EUV on up to 14 layers will be ready for risk production in April. EUV aims to lower costs by reducing the number of masks required for leading-edge designs."
 
Feb 23, 2017
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#3
The quote in the OP is puzzling me.
The first thing it mentions is speed gains, and the last thing it mentions are that speed gains weren't mentioned.
My head is in a boot loop following that BSOD.
 

french toast

Senior member
Feb 22, 2017
916
0
96
#4
The quote in the OP is puzzling me.
The first thing it mentions is speed gains, and the last thing it mentions are that speed gains weren't mentioned.
My head is in a boot loop following that BSOD.
Speed gains for N5 is ~15%....no speed gains mentioned for N7+...where is the confusion?
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,672
56
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#5
A13 2019 h2 on 7+ then? A14 2020 h2 on 5nm?
Amd x86 half a year later than Apple.
Tock tock tock tock. Relentlessly.
It's perfectly clear Intel business model is not working today. In no way can they compete with the rest of the world sharing process cost.
They need to change something radical now or they will be stuck on a half mature complex 10nm while the rest of the leader pack is on 5nm euv. It's not viable.
 
Apr 27, 2000
10,790
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#6
Intel may get some good transistor performance out of 10nm, but they will lose on cost and density.
 

DooKey

Golden Member
Nov 9, 2005
1,452
5
106
#7
A13 2019 h2 on 7+ then? A14 2020 h2 on 5nm?
Amd x86 half a year later than Apple.
Tock tock tock tock. Relentlessly.
It's perfectly clear Intel business model is not working today. In no way can they compete with the rest of the world sharing process cost.
They need to change something radical now or they will be stuck on a half mature complex 10nm while the rest of the leader pack is on 5nm euv. It's not viable.
I believe Intel is working on 7nm EUV process as we speak. That should catch them up if they can execute. Big IF these days.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,672
56
136
#8
I believe Intel is working on 7nm EUV process as we speak. That should catch them up if they can execute. Big IF these days.
Intel current profit at approx 20b a year gives plenty safety and funds for 10 and 7nm. But when 5nm arrives I think the size of investments even for Intel starts to become a serious problem for profit. 3nm funding could perhaps be unsustainable. Process cost is just exploding and always takes longer than anticipated.
 

DooKey

Golden Member
Nov 9, 2005
1,452
5
106
#9
Intel current profit at approx 20b a year gives plenty safety and funds for 10 and 7nm. But when 5nm arrives I think the size of investments even for Intel starts to become a serious problem for profit. 3nm funding could perhaps be unsustainable. Process cost is just exploding and always takes longer than anticipated.
At that point I think Intel opens up their fabs to a multitude of others and garners some outside capital. They aren't the only ones looking at a huge bill to continue down the shrink path. The next several years are going to be fascinating.
 

scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,312
136
136
#10
And to think, all this capital infusion into foundries really started when Intel told Apple no, they weren't going to make a SOC for their iPhone project. ;-) If Intel had said yes, the landscape would look a lot different.
 
Sep 11, 2010
59
1
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#11
A13 2019 h2 on 7+ then? A14 2020 h2 on 5nm?
Amd x86 half a year later than Apple.
Tock tock tock tock. Relentlessly.
It's perfectly clear Intel business model is not working today. In no way can they compete with the rest of the world sharing process cost.
They need to change something radical now or they will be stuck on a half mature complex 10nm while the rest of the leader pack is on 5nm euv. It's not viable.
Maybe also an A13X on N5 in 2020H1?
Apple seems all over the place in why and when they release X variants (presumably A11X was skipped and A12X will appear soon this month?).
But skipping the A13X in October next year and delaying it to 2020H1 so that it can be the early exploration of N5 seems to make sense, like A10X was first on 10nm. Also gives iPads an average cadence of 18 months or so rather than annual, which seems to kinda work.
 


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