Edwards: raise taxes for healthcare

[Tom]

Here's the way I look at health care.

1. health care is a productivity issue. Healthy people are more productive and increase GDP more than sick people. Anyone disagree ?

2. all health care is "paid for" one way or another. People who don't have health insurance represent a hidden tax, through lost productivity if they stay sick longer, or their health care is "paid for" by passing on the cost of their health care through higher priced health care for everyone. Anyone disagree ?

So the real issue is what is the best way to fund health care for everyone in an upfront manner so nothing is hidden anymore, because having good information is the first step in making rational decisions.

I would argue that one of the benefits of a capitalist approach, competition driving efficiency, doesn't work very well in the case of private health insurance, or in the delivery of healthcare, ie doctors and hospitals. Or at least it isn't working very well based on empirical evidence.
We spend a lot of money on healthcare, but a huge number of people get that healthcare in irrational ways at a hidden cost.

So, we need a major overhaul of the entire system; if there's an advantage to keeping parts of the system private, we need to figure out how and where it would work to deliver what we really need, because it isn't doing that now.

 

[dyna]

Originally posted by: Tom
Here's the way I look at health care.

1. health care is a productivity issue. Healthy people are more productive and increase GDP more than sick people. Anyone disagree ?

2. all health care is "paid for" one way or another. People who don't have health insurance represent a hidden tax, through lost productivity if they stay sick longer, or their health care is "paid for" by passing on the cost of their health care through higher priced health care for everyone. Anyone disagree ?

So the real issue is what is the best way to fund health care for everyone in an upfront manner so nothing is hidden anymore, because having good information is the first step in making rational decisions.

I would argue that one of the benefits of a capitalist approach, competition driving efficiency, doesn't work very well in the case of private health insurance, or in the delivery of healthcare, ie doctors and hospitals. Or at least it isn't working very well based on empirical evidence.
We spend a lot of money on healthcare, but a huge number of people get that healthcare in irrational ways at a hidden cost.

So, we need a major overhaul of the entire system; if there's an advantage to keeping parts of the system private, we need to figure out how and where it would work to deliver what we really need, because it isn't doing that now.

If costs could be driven down a universal healthcare system might work. I have descent health insurance and going to the hospital for anything still costs several grand.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Someone wanna explain what we've gotten out of Iraq so far? Sometimes I think I might be less critical of it if we actually went in for the betterment of America-- even raping and pillaging their oil for American citizens would give at least SOME justification.

Are you that naive? We havent profited from Iraqi oil AT ALL...why cant people let go of this lame duck lie?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Someone wanna explain what we've gotten out of Iraq so far? Sometimes I think I might be less critical of it if we actually went in for the betterment of America-- even raping and pillaging their oil for American citizens would give at least SOME justification.

The oil has been secured.

So secured that its twice as expensive for a gallon of gas now than before the war. 🙁

Record profits because Saddam isn't getting to keep the $900 million in extra oil royalties now that Haliburton has the oil there now.

uh...you pull this one out of your ass?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: db
Wouldn't it be a better use of our money to start a war in Iran? That's what our commander in chief wants, so it must be the right thing to do, if you're a real American.

More creation of lies. Link to where Bush stated he wanted to start a war with Iran?

 

[extra]

Honestly ProfJohn the links provided do not provide all the details on the plan so it is impossible to make a completely accurate assessment.

The truth of the matter is that there are a few instances where taxes should be raised. Ie, income over the current Social Security limit should be taxed. There should be no limit on your income being taxed for social security. I wonder how many in this thread make over that limit. I do not I'm still a student, but I have relatives that do and they are all FOR the tax being increased. Well, not being increased per say, but being made to apply to income over the 100k mark.

The REALITY of our health care system is that TAXES SHOULD NOT NEED TO BE RAISED TO GIVE EVERYONE IN AMERICA HEALTH CARE.

If you look at nothing but the numbers, which are by definition unbiased, you will find that our government pays MORE per person than other countries with socialized medicine do.

So---we already PAY for socialized medicine but we GET LESS!

This needs to be fixed one way or the other (either we should drastically cut taxes or we should get the benefits we are paying for and I don't really care which one happens).

Socialized medicine is not a bad idea, but setting it up so that it restricts freedom is a very bad idea.

If a doctor wants to forgoe all government benefits and not support socialized medicine and only take private payments, that should be their right to do so. So the rich can afford better healthcare, so what, cry more, it's a free country.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Does ''promote the general welfare" one of the first responsibilities our GOV is supposed to take care of, mean stepping in with services the private sector is too greedy to provide? Is this not a Constitutional mandate?

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: senseamp
Sounds good to me. People making over 200K aren't even paying payroll taxes onLet every person pay anextra half of their income, so they are in good shape to pay more income taxes.

Let every person pay 25% more tax on their income. - Put in place a national sales tax to fund it.

Yeah let's tax the one thing driving our economy, consumer spending, at 25% :roll:
Got any other ideas for destroying this country?

And the "wealthy" do not spend.

You want to penalize people, then let everyone feel the pain, why select a special group.

If you want to spend the $$ to help the people, then let the people that it will help participate in the costs. They then may have a little more concern in what a handout is.

Otherwise you are just playing robin hood and pulling a socialism end around.

Because people who are barely making ends meet and can't afford healthcare, probably can't afford more taxes either. There is a reason why most advanced societies use some form of progressive taxation, while banana republics have flat taxes and dire poverty for large sections of their populations. It's not an accident.

 

[cmeisenzahl]

The attitude seems to be that the money you earn belongs to the government first, and they will then decide what you may keep.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Someone wanna explain what we've gotten out of Iraq so far? Sometimes I think I might be less critical of it if we actually went in for the betterment of America-- even raping and pillaging their oil for American citizens would give at least SOME justification.

OK, I will bite! The end of a steady stream of Iraqi black-market oil depressing the world wide price.

-------------------------
Some-one forgot to read the Mod post above.

See you in a week.

Anandtech Moderator

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: totalcommand
Hey ProfJohn, where does he say that he'll solely use tax increases to pay for the healthcare?

I think ending the war in Iraq will save us well over 100billion a year by itself.

I'm still awaiting your answer. Maybe you've done the smart thing and withdrawn from this thread like we should in Iraq.

Come back John. Where are you?